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Catalonia’s Parliament Votes to Declare Independence From Spain

Aristaeus said:
It's completely different. The Catalan separatists are not looking to leave the EU. They want Catalonia to be a sovereign nation in the EU.
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donsutherland1 said:
Three points

1. The study was excerpted to provide historic context. The Catalan separatist movement is not a new thing and it has nothing to do with a desire to exit the European Union. In fact, following the referendum, Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont, appealed to the European Union to help mediate between the Catalan region and the Spanish central government. The separatist movement's root cause has no connection to "Brexit." It also has nothing to do with "political correctness."

2. The share of the Catalan region's population that seeks independence from Spain is not fully certain. For example, turnout in the unsanctioned referendum was just 43%. Further, in today's vote by the regional Catalan Parliament, 55 lawmakers (more than 40% of the body) walked out rather than vote.

3. Even the personal anecdotes you cite, which may or may not be representative of the larger Catalan region population, do not illustrate a desire among the population to exit the European Union or any connection with "political correctness."

In sum, there remains no credible evidence to support the hypothesis that the Catalan separatist movement is linked to a desire to exit the European Union or has anything to do with "political correctness."
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We'll just have to disagree...I think they completely realize Spain is the only country with the EU agreement and if they truly get their independence from their oppressors, they will not be a part of the EU. For myself, every one of these populist movements from Brexit, Trump v. Hillary, and Frexit, and Catalonia can be explained by the outlying rural areas rising up against immigration laws and terrorist attacks after people have been killed. There is no denying that this has happened in every case, but I admit it could just be my observations.
 
donsutherland1 said:
The Spanish Government will exercise its authority under Spain's Constitution. It will take direct control of Catalonia for the time being.

The Catalan Parliament's move is not a constructive development. It is unlikely that the Catalan region will be successful in its bid for independence. A significant share of its population does not support the drive for independence (though a small majority might), the Spanish Constitution prohibits it, and the European Union won't recognize it.

On account of what happened, especially if violence results from Spain's efforts to assume direct control, it is unlikely that Madrid will simply restore the status quo ante. In other words, going forward, the Catalan region will likely have less autonomy than it possessed prior to its move for independence.
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Violence must be minimized. Police and such must practice and enforce restraint as we saw from what I gather a heavy handed response when trying to disrupt the vote, confiscating ballots and such.
That should be made clear, and enforced.
Violence will only cause more dissension and the Police-authorities have to show restraint.

Removing parts or all of Catalans autonomy would also alienate those that do not support or are on the fence, and in the end have no positive pay back.
Autonomy should not be amended if it is, many would see this as punishment.

There will be confusion when implementing Article 155. Hope the Govt handles this well
 
PoS said:
Of course there is. If Spain imposes direct rule and arrests the leaders of Catalonia then it gets serious.
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Very serious. Anything from nothing to civil unrest could happen.
 
NoParty said:
We'll just have to disagree...
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Well you can't disagree with facts. The Catalan separatists want to stay in the EU.

NoParty said:
I think they completely realize Spain is the only country with the EU agreement
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what EU agreement? What on earth are you talking about.

NoParty said:
and if they truly get their independence from their oppressors, they will not be a part of the EU.
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They want to remain in the EU. Oppressors?? You're lack of knowledge on this subject is startling.

NoParty said:
Frexit,
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what is Frexit? I don't think I've met anyone with as little knowledge of the subject as you.

NoParty said:
Catalonia can be explained by the outlying rural areas rising up against immigration laws and terrorist attacks after people have been killed. There is no denying that this has happened in every case, but I admit it could just be my observations.
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The Catalan independence movement has nothing to do with immigration. Nothing. It also has nothing to do with the EU and the issue has been around long before the EU existed.
 
NoParty said:
We'll just have to disagree...I think they completely realize Spain is the only country with the EU agreement and if they truly get their independence from their oppressors, they will not be a part of the EU. For myself, every one of these populist movements from Brexit, Trump v. Hillary, and Frexit, and Catalonia can be explained by the outlying rural areas rising up against immigration laws and terrorist attacks after people have been killed. There is no denying that this has happened in every case, but I admit it could just be my observations.
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It's not really a matter of disagreement. It's a matter of facts.

If this is a movement that seeks exit from the EU, then one should readily be able to find evidence of such a goal. Exit from the EU is not a goal of the Catalan separatist movement. All separatist movements cannot be assumed to be essentially the same in nature.

Moreover, the Catalan separatist movement is pro-immigration, not anti-immigration. Immigrants are seen as a key source of support for this movement. For example, Reuters reported on June 16, 2017:

Catalonia has one of the highest percentages of immigrants in Spain, just under 14 percent of residents are foreign-born, and their votes may gain crucial votes for the independence movement in what is likely to be a close-run race.

Including them in the movement for nationhood is key says Catalonia’s deputy governor, Oriol Junqueras. “We want to be a very open and integrated society,” he told Reuters in Barcelona...

The Catalan regional government has worked to integrate migrants by providing free healthcare and education even to illegal immigrants registered as living in Catalonia.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ts-in-quest-to-split-from-spain-idUSKBN19711U
 
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