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Democrats Work To Stop Trump From Launching Nuclear Strike on North Korea

Zyphlin said:
The Congress can not simply vote itself new powers, nor vote the constitutional powers of the Presidency away from him.
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But with their arrogance, they will try.
 
MSgt said:
This is absolutely true. It seems to me to be the one thing that had a favorable unintended consequence. I give Trump that.
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Common ground.



Isn't that the problem? They were about to pull exactly what Democrats pulled. And it all hinged on the obnoxious ideal to repeal Obamacare at all costs. They had spent so many years stoking the fires of hate for Obamacare that they forgot to actually come up with something else. Now they are working with Democrats. They should have done this before Obamacare.
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Democrats know these next few years are crucial, if a policy like this doesn't get pulled soon, it never will be. So their goal will be to preserve as much of it as possible. They refused to even come to the table until Trump started with EOs to get rid of provisions Obama made by EO. They realized Trump can cripple the program without their votes anyway, so NOW they are willing to bargain. They were not before.



I never had to get too deep into it. Iran was my only concern. But I suspect it had to do with the wording. Because the seven countries were the same, does not mean the Obama-signed law and later Trump EO was the same.
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Based on the national security interest alone, no state should have been able to prove enough harm for standing considering the national safety issues. It was a partisan ruling, you know it, I know it.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Democrats know these next few years are crucial, if a policy like this doesn't get pulled soon, it never will be. So their goal will be to preserve as much of it as possible. They refused to even come to the table until Trump started with EOs to get rid of provisions Obama made by EO. They realized Trump can cripple the program without their votes anyway, so NOW they are willing to bargain. They were not before.
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Yeah, I saw that too. But even Democrats know that Obamacare wasn't good enough. It's why enough of them immediately defaulted to "I didn't read it" as an excuse. Fighting tooth and nail in order to preserve a half-assed job was not in the greater interest of the American population. And a few actual conservatives within the GOP knew that simply repealing it would have sent so much of the uninsured poor right back to emergency rooms for their care, in which hospitals look towards government to help recover overpriced costs. This is where I would have thought that conservatives would have been on board. But for years all the GOP preached was for people to hate Obamacare instead of fixing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. This is why when it came time to do something, they really had nothing. And this is where McCain called BS.


OpportunityCost said:
Based on the national security interest alone, no state should have been able to prove enough harm for standing considering the national safety issues. It was a partisan ruling, you know it, I know it.
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I don't know that. Like I stated, I didn't investigate beyond my field of interest over it. I suspect that Trump's EO went too far, which is why it became a matter for the courts. The Obama-signed law came from Congress. But doesn't it say something that liberals and conservatives were clueless about the two-year old law until Trump started parading around his EO for the attention? Whatever he changed from the law, in order to make a self-glorifying EO, is what the courts looked at.

None of this matters anyway. Our foreign policy is wrong-headed because we don't get it. Islamist do not care about what goes on in America. And if they did, there are a hundred other countries in which one or two can travel from to arrive in the United States.
 
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OpportunityCost said:
What does that make the people challenging him and losing? Look, the media pissed away its integrity a while back. They have engaged in so much anonymous sourced idiocy that no one believes them anymore.

I mean really, The Resistance? How about Whine Corps instead.
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Oh come on. Trump is his own worst enemy and you know it. If he would just keep his trap shut and stop saying stupid things he wouldn't give fodder to the media.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
Oh come on. Trump is his own worst enemy and you know it. If he would just keep his trap shut and stop saying stupid things he wouldn't give fodder to the media.
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You mean like they would have John McCain and Mitt Romney? The media is hostile to anyone and anything conservative and/or Republican. Remember how shocked McCain was when the media turned after he got the nomination?
 
MSgt said:
Yeah, I saw that too. But even Democrats know that Obamacare wasn't good enough. It's why enough of them immediately defaulted to "I didn't read it" as an excuse. Fighting tooth and nail in order to preserve a half-assed job was not in the greater interest of the American population. And a few actual conservatives within the GOP knew that simply repealing it would have sent so much of the uninsured poor right back to emergency rooms for their care, in which hospitals look towards government to help recover overpriced costs. This is where I would have thought that conservatives would have been on board. But for years all the GOP preached was for people to hate Obamacare instead of fixing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. This is why when it came time to do something, they really had nothing. And this is where McCain called BS.
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Please, McCain is an attention whoring jerk that saw another opportunity to revive his maverick cred.




I don't know that. Like I stated, I didn't investigate beyond my field of interest over it. I suspect that Trump's EO went too far, which is why it became a matter for the courts. The Obama-signed law came from Congress. But doesn't it say something that liberals and conservatives were clueless about the two-year old law until Trump started parading around his EO for the attention? Whatever he changed from the law, in order to make a self-glorifying EO, is what the courts looked at.
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There was virtually no difference from the Obama EO for 90 days versus the Trump one for 120 except the party of the person behind it. They seized on campaign rhetoric not contained in the bill. Since when is information not contained in a document used to rule against it?

None of this matters anyway. Our foreign policy is wrong-headed because we don't get it. Islamist do not care about what goes on in America. And if they did, there are a hundred other countries in which one or two can travel from to arrive in the United States.
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9/11 says differently.
 
OpportunityCost said:
Please, McCain is an attention whoring jerk that saw another opportunity to revive his maverick cred.
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See what I mean? Because McCain told the GOP that the trash they were about to pull wasn't good enough, you are about to get a better plan. McCain is one of the few left up there that actually represent what conservatives are supposed to be. You people are entirely lost when you actually look towards a Trump and see representation. And by the way, we are talking about a GOP that begged you people not to vote for Trump.


OpportunityCost said:
9/11 says differently.
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From seventeen years ago? No...it absolutely does not. 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with how Americans live their lives and everything to do with our wrong-headed foreign policy. And it continues to be wrong-headed because we continue to want it to be all about us. Americans love their historical us-versus-them definitions of the world. What you witness and have witnessed in the Middle East is a centuries old theological struggle between "Islamic Modernists" and "Islamists" to define the religion and Muslim society in the modern age. You are out of your depth here.
 
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MSgt said:
See what I mean? Because McCain told the GOP that the trash they were about to pull wasn't good enough, you are about to get a better plan. McCain is one of the few left up there that actually represent what conservatives are supposed to be. You people are entirely lost when you actually look towards a Trump and see representation. And by the way, we are talking about a GOP that begged you people not to vote for Trump.
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You claim he votes his conscience, I claim he votes for headlines.




From seventeen years ago? No...it absolutely does not. 9/11 had absolutely nothing to do with how Americans live their lives and everything to do with our wrong-headed foreign policy. And it continues to be wrong-headed because we continue to want it to be all about us. Americans love their historical us-versus-them definitions of the world. What you witness and have witnessed in the Middle East is a centuries old theological struggle between "Islamic Modernists" and "Islamists" to define the religion and Muslim society in the modern age. You are out of your depth here.
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Radical Islam was going to go after us no matter what the US did. I am not out of my depth, you are being hopelessly naïve.
 
OpportunityCost said:
You claim he votes his conscience, I claim he votes for headlines.






Radical Islam was going to go after us no matter what the US did. I am not out of my depth, you are being hopelessly naïve.
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Yeah, ok. You are out of your depth.
 
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iliveonramen said:
The bill says first strike. It would be dangerous if they stated any launch as it would undermine MAD, but no president should launch a first strike.
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This was my thinking. A nuclear strike is a declaration of war so how could any President deliver a first strike without Congress? Where have they been the last 2 Presidents with all of the countries we have been bombing and using drone strikes the last 20 years. No President should be allowed the power to strike a sovereign nation without approval from Congress unless it is an emergency (preemptive strike to disable an incoming attack) or retaliation.
 
MrPeanut said:
And there are several other people down the line that have to perform actions. The way people talk about this stuff is like the POTUS literally has big red button on his desk or something.
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Makes more entertaining news coverage.

Although I am concerned as more people who agree with or follow Trump get positions in government.
Apart from the direct negative effects it has, the potential pushback reduction is worrying.

But to counter that, there's the distinct appearance that Trump operates in a carefully maintained bubble of unreality maintained desperately by the staff in an attempt to prevent problems.
 
Nap said:
This was my thinking. A nuclear strike is a declaration of war so how could any President deliver a first strike without Congress? Where have they been the last 2 Presidents with all of the countries we have been bombing and using drone strikes the last 20 years. No President should be allowed the power to strike a sovereign nation without approval from Congress unless it is an emergency (preemptive strike to disable an incoming attack) or retaliation.
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Did president Obama have congress declarer war when he lobbed 112 cruise missiles into Libya?

Think about it...
 
Nap said:
What did you think I was talking about when I said the last 2 Presidents?
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Sorry...

I somehow skipped past that part.

Need more coffee......
 
MrPeanut said:
I'm talking about launching a nuke not just making an order.
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You mean going to the place where they push the buttons and actually push it?


so uhm ok my bad, this is a goofy conversation that I have no real interest then.
 
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