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Pro-Trump states most affected by his health care decision

AliHajiSheik said:
Go team politics, rah, rah. The ends justify the means, even if the ends may not be met. Why bother spending time to get the state to do what one wants when they can convince themselves that the Federal Government should do it and force everyone else to go along.

Should I just swallow your narrative, or perhaps you could provide some facts to back up each of your claims--there are a few whoppers you have served up there.

Finally, could you please describe how you understand the difference between healthcare and health insurance?
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Ali, your first paragraph reminds me of something Conservative would post. And fyi, I understand the difference between health care and healthcare insurance. so in the future if I say healthcare instead of healthcare insurance you'll know I know the difference. Your second paragraph was also Conservative-esque:"nuh uh, you're lying". But I'm kinda surprised you weren't clear what the "whoppers" were because you want me to say "healthcare insurance" instead of "healthcare" every time I mention that "20 million now have healthcare". Lets see if I address your "mysterious list" of whoppers with these two threads.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/obamacare-aca-/193205-aca-continues-push-up-hospital-quality.html

https://www.debatepolitics.com/obam...-unleash-american-entrepreneurial-spirit.html
 
Conservative said:
Lol love that Obama economy that gave us a GOP Congress and Trump. Like most liberals you just don't get it, how Obama lost the House then the Congress with such "great results?"

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And pivot. Con, we were discussing your hilariously silly point that I should be happy with the 10% increase in the Dow under Trump and should ignore the 300% increase under President Obama.

Vern said:
oh Con, its one thing to post one of your typical silly rants but your last sentence only proves you really don't understand very simple math. while I'm pleased with the 10% increase in the Dow under trump, I am officially rich thanks to the 300% rise in the Dow under President Obama.
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fmw said:
No, I am describing a group health policy. No government and government underwriting involved.
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It's also the ACA, and that group policy at work is also "government."
 
Vern said:
Ali, your first paragraph reminds me of something Conservative would post. And fyi, I understand the difference between health care and healthcare insurance. so in the future if I say healthcare instead of healthcare insurance you'll know I know the difference. Your second paragraph was also Conservative-esque:"nuh uh, you're lying". But I'm kinda surprised you weren't clear what the "whoppers" were because you want me to say "healthcare insurance" instead of "healthcare" every time I mention that "20 million now have healthcare". Lets see if I address your "mysterious list" of whoppers with these two threads.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/obamacare-aca-/193205-aca-continues-push-up-hospital-quality.html

https://www.debatepolitics.com/obam...-unleash-american-entrepreneurial-spirit.html
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Again, I'm not interesting in playing team politics, but you clearly uncomfortable unless someone is either with you or against you. Sorry, this pigeon isn't interested in your hole.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear which ones were whoppers:

1) "20 million now how healthcare."
2) "everybody gets a lower deficit and higher quality care."
3) "And double bonus, thanks to Obamacare health care inflation is at its lowest point in decades"
4) "and 2014 had the highest number of business startups in 20 years."

I'm in now way accusing you of lying, I'm asking you to support what you wrote so I can either learn something I wasn't aware, or you can correct what you missed. I don't presume either in any -esque way.

Finally, I read what you wrote, so if you don't demonstrate that you understand the difference between healthcare and health insurance, It is reasonable to assume you don't, but I asked to extend the courtesy.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Again, I'm not interesting in playing team politics, but you clearly uncomfortable unless someone is either with you or against you. Sorry, this pigeon isn't interested in your hole..
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Don't worry about me ali, I'm not easily upset. And I'm always happy to have an honest intelligent discussion of the facts. But that "team politics" thing was kinda vague and pointless in regards to my post. I responded directly to your "generous with other people's money" and "people become Democrats because they selfishly want to receive benefits". You didn't have to try to figure out my point. It was clear and straightforward. And I dont know what you mean by "not interested in my hole". Its another point you made that is not clear because you seem to asking me to back up a lot of points most of which are common knowledge. But again, I'm always happy to have an honest intelligent discussion of the facts.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear which ones were whoppers:

1) "20 million now how healthcare."
2) "everybody gets a lower deficit and higher quality care."
3) "And double bonus, thanks to Obamacare health care inflation is at its lowest point in decades"
4) "and 2014 had the highest number of business startups in 20 years."

I'm in now way accusing you of lying, I'm asking you to support what you wrote so I can either learn something I wasn't aware, or you can correct what you missed. I don't presume either in any -esque way.

Finally, I read what you wrote, so if you don't demonstrate that you understand the difference between healthcare and health insurance, It is reasonable to assume you don't, but I asked to extend the courtesy.
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First Ali, "whopper" means lie. Google says "gross or blatant lie". so you posting "you posted whoppers" kinda conflicts with "I'm not accusing you of lying". Google might say "blatantly or grossly conflicts". And again, for someone who wants me to type "gained healthcare insurance" instead of "gained healthcare" every time I post it, it seems a little inconsistent.

1 20 million people gained healthcare insurance thanks to Obamacare. If you are discounting the number of people who've gained insurance because of Obamacare then I may be wasting my time.
2 I posted a thread from Greenbeard detailing the higher quality care. the lower deficit is also another one of things that's commonly known. see below
3 again, common knowledge but see below
4 I posted a thread I started that predicted an increase in small businesses. Here's the post from that thread that documents that point

Vern said:
Hey look, Obamacare is actually unleashing the American “entrepreneurial spirit”

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America
An index of startup activity surged after a steep post-recession decline

"The Kauffman Index of Startup Activity, which is an indicator of new business creation, had the biggest increase in 2015 over the past two decades"

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America - Bloomberg Business

my my, the biggest increase in 2 decades started in 2014. mmm, I wonder how many "conservative" predictions came true? oh yea, none.
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This will help you with the healthcare inflation and deficit issues.

Obama: Health care is driving down the deficit | PolitiFact
 
JasperL said:
It's also the ACA, and that group policy at work is also "government."
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You say that was my reference but it wasn't. I want government out of the health insurance business completely.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Insurance companies do that a TON. As a healthcare provider, I get insurance companies denying healthcare to my clients FAR more often than with Medicare.
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That is not good. But there may be reasons for it. I can see denying elective procedures for example. What was denied to me was a test to determine if my cancer had metastasized. It was rejected by Medicare. The doctor said I should have it so I paid for it. My case was not elective and seemed perfectly natural for an oncologist to order up. It didn't seem to be out of the ordinary at all. In fact it seemed that it is likely a routine with cancer patients. It surprised me.
 
fmw said:
You say that was my reference but it wasn't. I want government out of the health insurance business completely.
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What I intended to say was you were, factually, objectively, describing the structure of the ACA. What you meant to describe is not IMO relevant - I was just pointing out what you DID describe.

And if you want a national pool, those with pre-existing conditions to be covered, what you want is also irrelevant - that's only possible with government.
 
JasperL said:
What I intended to say was you were, factually, objectively, describing the structure of the ACA. What you meant to describe is not IMO relevant - I was just pointing out what you DID describe.

And if you want a national pool, those with pre-existing conditions to be covered, what you want is also irrelevant - that's only possible with government.
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Private sector group health plans do not exclude pre-existing conditions. Only individual policies do that. It is one of the negatives of individual policies that do not exist in group policies. I did not describe the ACA. I described something very different and nothing like an individual policy. The ACA is all about individual policies. Is it clearer now?
 
fmw said:
Private sector group health plans do not exclude pre-existing conditions.
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Correct, because the government prohibits employers from excluding anyone for pre-existing conditions, or charging them more.

Only individual policies do that. It is one of the negatives of individual policies that do not exist in group policies. I did not describe the ACA. I described something very different and nothing like an individual policy. The ACA is all about individual policies. Is it clearer now?
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The ACA obviously sells individual policies, but they are group/community rated.
 
Conservative said:
Keep buying polls so tell me how is President Hillary doing since polls predicted her win?

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If you look at the majority of the polls...they were actually very accurate. The outliers were the polls from Michigan and Pennsylvania. Do you actually believe that people in this country think Trump is doing a good job? Keep telling yourself that. Without a doubt...Trump is going to go down as the worst President in the history of this country. That should make you feel good though Con....at least your hero won't be the worst anymore.
 
JasperL said:
Correct, because the government prohibits employers from excluding anyone for pre-existing conditions, or charging them more.
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Where did you get that idea?


The ACA obviously sells individual policies, but they are group/community rated.
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That doesn't make it the same as private sector group policies which is what a posted about.
 
Vern said:
Don't worry about me ali, I'm not easily upset. And I'm always happy to have an honest intelligent discussion of the facts. But that "team politics" thing was kinda vague and pointless in regards to my post. I responded directly to your "generous with other people's money" and "people become Democrats because they selfishly want to receive benefits". You didn't have to try to figure out my point. It was clear and straightforward. And I dont know what you mean by "not interested in my hole". Its another point you made that is not clear because you seem to asking me to back up a lot of points most of which are common knowledge. But again, I'm always happy to have an honest intelligent discussion of the facts.


First Ali, "whopper" means lie. Google says "gross or blatant lie". so you posting "you posted whoppers" kinda conflicts with "I'm not accusing you of lying". Google might say "blatantly or grossly conflicts". And again, for someone who wants me to type "gained healthcare insurance" instead of "gained healthcare" every time I post it, it seems a little inconsistent.

1 20 million people gained healthcare insurance thanks to Obamacare. If you are discounting the number of people who've gained insurance because of Obamacare then I may be wasting my time.
2 I posted a thread from Greenbeard detailing the higher quality care. the lower deficit is also another one of things that's commonly known. see below
3 again, common knowledge but see below
4 I posted a thread I started that predicted an increase in small businesses. Here's the post from that thread that documents that point



This will help you with the healthcare inflation and deficit issues.

Obama: Health care is driving down the deficit | PolitiFact
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I appreciate the time you took to write this.
 
Vern said:
And pivot. Con, we were discussing your hilariously silly point that I should be happy with the 10% increase in the Dow under Trump and should ignore the 300% increase under President Obama.



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So tell us Vern with those great Obama results how did he lose the House in 10-12 and the Congress in 14-16 and legacy rejected?

Trump DOW 23k in 10 months try again old partisan ranter

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disneydude said:
If you look at the majority of the polls...they were actually very accurate. The outliers were the polls from Michigan and Pennsylvania. Do you actually believe that people in this country think Trump is doing a good job? Keep telling yourself that. Without a doubt...Trump is going to go down as the worst President in the history of this country. That should make you feel good though Con....at least your hero won't be the worst anymore.
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For those who ignore results yes which would be you. Both Bush and Trumps results are better than Obama's


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Glen Contrarian said:
Hm. Washington state is a (very blue) high-wage state. We just passed a $15 minimum wage for Seattle not so long ago (and our economy is doing quite well, thank you very much). And guess what? Like Texas, we do NOT have state taxes.

Of course, our taxes are paid in different ways. Our sales tax is fairly high - above 8%.

Now, let's look at very red Texas - it has a sales tax that is a couple percentage points lower than ours, but their property taxes are among the highest in the nation.

Now I admit that's not really addressing your point in that Texas - which has a good state economy and has high tax revenue - is a bit of an outlier among red states. If we look at other red states that really do have low taxes, most of them do not have good economies e.g. Mississippi, Louisiana, Tennessee, West Virginia...and the poster child of what happens when taxes are slashed to the bone, Kansas.
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You certainly live in a left-wing liberal Dreamworld, article after article that posted the results of that minimum wage increase in Seattle yet you ignored them just like you ignore the economic results of Texas because in your world cost-of-living doesn't matter. The cost of living in the state of my birth Washington is much much higher than Texas and I cannot wait until your state and local taxes are not deductible on federal income taxes so you actually end up paying for that pork that you support

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CaptainCourtesy said:
Results show nothing of the sort. Why don't you go post some numbers that you don't understand and can't interpret.
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I have posted numbers over and over and over again even on this thread but you ignored them so what purpose would it serve to post them again? Bls.gov provide you the employment, part time for economic reasons, discouraged workers, u-6 rate all of which are better than anything Obama ever generated. Now show me that I don't know how to interpret those are results

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fmw said:
Where did you get that idea?
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E.g. Hey, Can my Employer Do That? The Top Group Health Insurance Questions | Fox Business

7. Does my new group health insurance plan have to cover my pre-existing condition?

If you've had health insurance through a group health insurance plan for 12 months, with no coverage lapse of 63 days or more, then a new group health plan cannot exclude a pre-existing condition from coverage, according to Title 1 of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. If you were without health insurance or had a lengthy lapse, then the group plan can refuse to cover a pre-existing condition for up to 12 months.
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If your point is some small employer plans aren't bound by those rules, that's true.
 
Conservative said:
For those who ignore results yes which would be you. Both Bush and Trumps results are better than Obama's


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LOL......okie dokie artichokie.....keep ignoring the real results Con....and keep fooling yourself. The vast majority of America sees otherwise.
 
Conservative said:
So tell us Vern with those great Obama results how did he lose the House in 10-12 and the Congress in 14-16 and legacy rejected?
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Because mindless morons fell for the conservative bull crap.

Trump DOW 23k in 10 months try again old partisan ranter
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You keep repeating your mindless partisan mantra. Still can not cite a single action by Trump that has had a single effect.
 
disneydude said:
LOL......okie dokie artichokie.....keep ignoring the real results Con....and keep fooling yourself. The vast majority of America sees otherwise.
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They sure do as they voted for the Republicans and 2010-2011 2014 and 2016. You are the one in total denial and always will be. One of these days you are going to realize that California isn't mainstream

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prometeus said:
Because mindless morons fell for the conservative bull crap.

You keep repeating your mindless partisan mantra. Still can not cite a single action by Trump that has had a single effect.
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Exactly mindless crap to a liberal is data and facts. How many times do I have to post bls.gov, Bea. Gov, and treasury data before you pay attention?

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