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Church denies First Communion to fashion-loving girl because she wanted to wear a suit

I think some of you have lost sight of what communion is...it is not about the one taking it, but the focus should be on who they are taking it for...

And I am not Muslim so what they wear in their mosques is their business...by 'society' I also meant the society in which I live, not someone else...
 
MSgt said:
That would be the entire problem, right? One can't worship God without worshiping an institution? It seems to me that far too many religious institutions try to declare how you will worship God. What does God have to say? The religious often lose sight of the point.
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There are plenty of Churches that have a "No standards" approach, asking one that has long standing ones to change is stupidity. Don't like it, find one that meets your needs.
 
Elvira said:
I think some of you have lost sight of what communion is...it is not about the one taking it, but the focus should be on who they are taking it for...

And I am not Muslim so what they wear in their mosques is their business...by 'society' I also meant the society in which I live, not someone else...
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I think you have that backwards.

Yes...communion is a personal thing between individual and God. So where do people on the side get off judging what she wears?
 
Elvira said:
I think some of you have lost sight of what communion is...it is not about the one taking it, but the focus should be on who they are taking it for...
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But it is a celebration of that person being able to share that with the Lord. Of them being of age (and sound mind) to accept the Lord Jesus into their hearts and commit such unto Him.
 
... the Mansells pulled their daughters out of the school and the church altogether.
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Sounds like the system is working exactly as it should. This is a church we're talking about, not the government: if you don't like their rules, go somewhere else.
 
Renae said:
There are plenty of Churches that have a "No standards" approach, asking one that has long standing ones to change is stupidity. Don't like it, find one that meets your needs.
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Certainly, everything and everyone should have and maintain some sort of standards. But a religious institution should consider it's role before turning away souls because the elderly can't cope with change and care more about their latest-created traditions than God. Somewhere along the way, women started to be allowed to wear dresses above the ankles. At what point did the ankle stop offending God? See the point? This is a cultural matter, not a religious matter. Mixing the two is how people get forced into worshiping God the way others want them to, rather than as God intended.

If the girl is being criticized for wanting to be fashionable, whatever, but people do need to consider what they do every Sunday when they pick out their ties for their suits or ordain themselves with jewelry around their pretty dress. This girl was denied communion, based on her clothing. God and that girl's soul had nothing to do with that church's decision. Were I a religious man, I would argue that the Church did Satan's work. This is no different than any radical Mosque in the Middle East that insists that women cover themselves completely...um...for God.
 
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MSgt said:
Certainly, everything and everyone should have and maintain some sort of standards. But a religious institution should consider it's role before turning away souls because the elderly can't cope with change and care more about their latest-created traditions than God. Somewhere along the way, women started to be allowed to wear dresses above the ankles. At what point did the ankle stop offending God? See the point? This is a cultural matter, not a religious matter. Mixing the two is how people get forced into worshiping God the way others want them to, rather than as God intended.

If the girl is being criticized for wanting to be fashionable, whatever, but people do need to consider what they do every Sunday when they pick out their ties for their suits or ordain themselves with jewelry around their pretty dress. This girl was denied communion, based on her clothing. God and that girl's soul had nothing to do with that church's decision. Were I a religious man, I would argue that the Church did Satan's work. This is no different than any radical Mosque in the Middle East that insists that women cover themselves completely...um...for God.
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Wah wah wah, she was told that her choice didn't meet the requirements, she should have just been stylin within the rules. End of story. Anything else is just stupid.
 
I have to say, that after much thought, and thoughtful arguments on both sides, I'd like to alter my stance just a bit...While I still don't agree with the parents airing their grievance in the press, I will say that if the little girl wanted to wear the suit as opposed to a dress, I no longer see what the big deal is...i don't think God is condemning the girl for her attire, judgement is a human failing. As for the Priest, let me relate, when my wife and I were to be married, my wife being a life long Catholic, as was I being raised so, went to her local Priest. He, refused to marry us partly due to a previous marriage, but his rudeness in the session led him to tell us that we were kids, and would never make it, and he wasn't going to be responsible for a failed union that he could prevent....what an ass. Laura and I have been married now coming up on 30 years in this next May.

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk
 
Renae said:
Wah wah wah, she was told that her choice didn't meet the requirements, she should have just been stylin within the rules. End of story. Anything else is just stupid.
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Oh. Alright. I would argue that religion is stupid enough without turning it into a private club, but whatever.
 
MSgt said:
Oh. Alright. I would argue that religion is stupid enough without turning it into a private club, but whatever.
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I'm just saying, you know the rule,s and when you break the rules don't act shocked when there are repercussions.
 
Renae said:
I'm just saying, you know the rule,s and when you break the rules don't act shocked when there are repercussions.
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Given the state of religion all over the world, I don't think anybody is shocked when this sort of thing happens. But I would argue that it is because this sort of thing happens, even in the West, that religion is in such a mess. God has taken a back seat to what man wants for his Church, Mosque, or Temple.
 
Renae said:
I'm just saying, you know the rule,s and when you break the rules don't act shocked when there are repercussions.
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Many of us agree that if they dont like the church 'rules' they should (and did) leave. That the church has the authority to make those 'rules' whether in the actual spirit of God and the religion or not.

But we were posting our perspectives on the church's rules and the fact that such things not actually based in religion can cause undue dissent and even people leaving the church.
 
Lursa said:
Many of us agree that if they dont like the church 'rules' they should (and did) leave. That the church has the authority to make those 'rules' whether in the actual spirit of God and the religion or not.

But we were posting our perspectives on the church's rules and the fact that such things not actually based in religion can cause undue dissent and even people leaving the church.
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What about the people that would leave the church because it has no standards or rules? I know people that would stop going if they DID allow this girl to suit it up at communion.
 
Renae said:
What about the people that would leave the church because it has no standards or rules? I know people that would stop going if they DID allow this girl to suit it up at communion.
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No standards or rules? We're talking about dress code. If people feel that something so superficial interferes with their relationship with God, that doesnt seem like a very strong relationship.

I can see a church or any business having a standard of 'decency' which might include wearing a shirt, shoes, (no shirt, no shoes, no service), no bikinis, etc. But otherwise, I'd say it's up to the church to communicate with their congregation and find out what their priorities are. And whoever disagrees goes elsewhere.
 
Lursa said:
No standards or rules? We're talking about dress code. If people feel that something so superficial interferes with their relationship with God, that doesnt seem like a very strong relationship.

I can see a church or any business having a standard of 'decency' which might include wearing a shirt, shoes, (no shirt, no shoes, no service), no bikinis, etc. But otherwise, I'd say it's up to the church to communicate with their congregation and find out what their priorities are. And whoever disagrees goes elsewhere.
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That's nice. For some, ceremony and tradition are part of the process. To dismiss their views because you disagree with foolish. I think this girl's parents should be ashamed of teaching their child the wrong life lesson.
 
Lursa said:
We are always in God's Presence.

Who says some particular means of dress is 'the ultimate in respect?' Wow, that would make God pretty superficial IMO and I know in my heart He is not.

Maybe you should reconsider being quite so judgmental on how people look. The Lord has said, the judging is His and His alone.
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Yep...

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

James 2:1-5
My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?
 
Renae said:
Wah wah wah, she was told that her choice didn't meet the requirements, she should have just been stylin within the rules. End of story. Anything else is just stupid.
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A dress code letter was sent out in August. The little girl was NOT denied First Communion; the parents were told that they could have a family-only service.

I'll make the point again that long before Cady Mansell's mother became a parent, she knew that little girls wear white dresses for First Communion. Please, this is a stock scene in movies and TV shows. The fact that mom went straight to Facebook shows me where her priority was--not her daughter making her First Communion but, rather, attention.
 
nota bene said:
A dress code letter was sent out in August. The little girl was NOT denied First Communion; the parents were told that they could have a family-only service.

I'll make the point again that long before Cady Mansell's mother became a parent, she knew that little girls wear white dresses for First Communion. Please, this is a stock scene in movies and TV shows. The fact that mom went straight to Facebook shows me where her priority was--not her daughter making her First Communion but, rather, attention.
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Bingo.
 
Lursa said:
We are always in God's Presence.

Who says some particular means of dress is 'the ultimate in respect?' Wow, that would make God pretty superficial IMO and I know in my heart He is not.

Maybe you should reconsider being quite so judgmental on how people look. The Lord has said, the judging is His and His alone.
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What she's saying is that god ESPECIALLY looks in on her church and His giant, all-seeing eye is drawn to bright colors and shiny objects, like a moron. The truth is, that very much of what happens in churches is vanity. They dress up for each other because it shows that they are being blessed according to their faith, that they are proving their god favors them. It's one of the unspoken insecurities of believing in invisible things that some of the faithful must compensate for with displays of personal success. They compete for attention from a being that, if He exists, most certainly understands that we come into this world naked and all of our fashions and ostentatious buildings are exercises in human weakness, not divine appreciation.
 
One does not have to be rich or fancy to dress neatly and appropriately for a service...:roll:
 
Elvira said:
One does not have to be rich or fancy to dress neatly and appropriately for a service...:roll:
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I have no problem with casual attire for church services. I also have no problem with dress codes for first communion ceremonies. I do have a problem with parents who exploit their children as political pawns.
 
MSgt said:
Given the state of religion all over the world, I don't think anybody is shocked when this sort of thing happens. But I would argue that it is because this sort of thing happens, even in the West, that religion is in such a mess. God has taken a back seat to what man wants for his Church, Mosque, or Temple.
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That's not a new phenomena at all. Look at how many Mosques were built upon the remains of Churches which were built upon the remains of Temples. Do you think that was His plan? Religion is "a mess" because it has always been a mess and only survived so well for so long because each group relied on maintaining a spiritual bubble to keep out contradictory evidence and people. Now, the internet allows for a free exchange of ideas and experiences that expose religion for what it is, an evolving regional, cultural tool for managing human weakness and ignorance, nothing more. We can no longer look at what we were told as children as true because it's obvious we were ALL told that about different stories.

I've got to hand it to people. Even as the free market of religious and non-religious ideas leaves most of their traditions looking like barbarism and anti-intellectual fairy tales, the desire for it remains strong in many of us. The incredible thing for me is not realizing how much actual truth people must ignore to maintain their faiths but how ready and willing we've always been to do so.
 
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