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Trump plans to declare that Iran nuclear deal is not in the national interest

Lursa said:
It's like having a 12 year old as president:


How many times has he done this now? "Oh I know what I'm going to to do, but I'll tell you later." Just baitiing, dangling his imagined power at being the last word on an issue, when really...he's knows what he wants to do but doesnt want to look stupid later after all the angles are discussed.

As if he's pretending it's a done deal, all the while he can still change his mind while the public and his staff debate.

Tillerson's secret plan to keep US in Iran deal - CNNPolitics


Jeebus...grow up!
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I could be wrong but I think every single time he said he would "announce his decision soon," it invariably ended up being the terrible one.
 
MaggieD said:
Some day, Presidents will be smarter. After they issue an EO as important as this, they should put it to Congress.
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Obama didnt put it to the Senate because they would not have ratified it.
 
I've never seen a guy more wrong then Trump.

How the hell did he become a billionaire?

I think it goes to show that when one starts with a several hundred mil inheritance, it doesn't take much brains or character to using money to make more money.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Iran is not in compliance.
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Well, aside from the fact that Trump's own administration twice certified to Congress that Iran is in compliance, and that the International Atomic Energy Agency said Iran was meeting its obligations under the pact...sure, Iran is not in compliance.
 
Cardinal said:
The part where you demonstrate that you actually did.
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Soooo, the article makes no mention of the Parchin site, or Iran being trusted to supply their own environmental samples from that site? Damn, you got me again. Oh-Bomb-A! Oh-Bomb-A! Oh-Bomb-A!
 
Cardinal said:
It is. The President doesn't just represent himself, but the United States as a whole.
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Which is why Obama should have sought the ratification by the US Senate. He didn't, so he was just representing himself. Trump, now representing himself, can walk away from it. Now, is that a good way to engage in foreign policy? Probably not. But in an agreement this vital to US interests, Obama should have sought senate approval. Had he done his job, Trumps hands would be tied.
 
countryboy said:
Soooo, the article makes no mention of the Parchin site, or Iran being trusted to supply their own environmental samples from that site?
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That, and the fact that the terms of the agreement itself are being met. Did you catch that when you "read" the whole article?
 
Fletch said:
Trump, now representing himself, can walk away from it. Now, is that a good way to engage in foreign policy? Probably not.
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Yes, he obviously "can" walk away from this deal. And there will be long term consequences that far exceed the Trump administration as a result.
 
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Grand Mal said:
Question- When you enter into a treaty or agreement with the USA, is it just for the duration of that President's administration? Is it all back to square one after a change in the White House?
That's something countries should know before they even enter negotiations. Tells you how much effort the process is worth.
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I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it is a treaty. The Senate is supposed to approve treaties and this was not sent to the Senate for them to Advise and Consent.
 
apdst said:
They didn't stop their nuke production.
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Greetings, apdst. :2wave:

IIRC, no inspections were ever to be allowed at certain of their facilities! Even the UN was against Obama on this, but he and John Kerry went on with the deal anyway. I understand that some things probably need to be kept secret from time to time, but why in this case, since Iranians never stopped shouting "Death to America" the entire time? Weird? :yes:
 
Lursa said:
It's like having a 12 year old as president:
Trump has said publicly he "decided" how he is going to proceed on the Iran nuclear deal but declined to disclose his decision, teasing to a future date.
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How many times has he done this now? "Oh I know what I'm going to to do, but I'll tell you later." Just baitiing, dangling his imagined power at being the last word on an issue, when really...he's knows what he wants to do but doesnt want to look stupid later after all the angles are discussed.
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You know, I bet he used to do this to his employees all the time, just to make them sweat. I bet that's where he started doing this. Like I wrote, just a show of power.

In general, 'small' people do that.
 
Cardinal said:
Yes, he obviously "can" walk away from this deal. And there will be consequences for that.
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Probably. But somehow I don't think you want Trump out there on his own making deals with, say, Russia now do you.
 
Tillerson was right.....Trump is a ****ing moron.
 
LesGovt said:
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think it is a treaty. The Senate is supposed to approve treaties and this was not sent to the Senate for them to Advise and Consent.
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Okay. What about NAFTA?
 
Lursa said:
You know, I bet he used to do this to his employees all the time, just to make them sweat. I bet that's where he started doing this. Like I wrote, just a show of power.

In general, 'small' people do that.
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Maybe, but I tend to think he doesn't have a plan most of the time. Hes not well thought out and I really don't see any real principles that guide his actions. I think when he says "I know what I am going to do, but Ill tell you later." He really has no idea what he is going to do or if whatever thoughts are bouncing around in his head at a given moment constitue a real plan of action.
 
Fletch said:
Maybe, but I tend to think he doesn't have a plan most of the time. Hes not well thought out and I really don't see any real principles that guide his actions. I think when he says "I know what I am going to do, but Ill tell you later." He really has no idea what he is going to do or if whatever thoughts are bouncing around in his head at a given moment constitue a real plan of action.
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I can see that. But what does that say about a leader? To have to bluff like that? To feel they have to appear like that?
 
Lursa said:
I can see that. But what does that say about a leader? To have to bluff like that? To feel they have to appear like that?
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Trump has his flaws lol
 
Cardinal said:
Well, aside from the fact that Trump's own administration twice certified to Congress that Iran is in compliance, and that the International Atomic Energy Agency said Iran was meeting its obligations under the pact...sure, Iran is not in compliance.
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The administration has been divided over recertifying during the year. The IAEA has said they cannot verify whether Iran is complying.
 
Cardinal said:
And now that's something other countries will know before entering negotiations. The only way future administrations will be able to negotiate future agreements after this is for a fully public and bipartisan repudiation of everything this administration has done and stands for. Just a little something to say, "Sorry for the temporary insanity our country went through. It's all good now." I don't know if that's realistic or even sufficient, but it would be a start.
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Good. Other countries SHOULD be aware of the realities of how out system of government works. The President is not a King, they are not all powerful, and do not have the authority to make binding and permanent agreements with foriegn entities. If entities were given that impression by past administrations, that is on them and those administrations. You don't get to act on individual fiat and then expect tot just shame people into accepting such unamerican of a notion regardless of them agreeing with it or not.

The same bull**** tactic was attempted with DACA and it was as dishonest and ridiculous then as it is here. Want it permanent, do it right. Fear that people will be harmed because they were ignorantly duped that an entirely Temporary thing would be pseudo permanent, blame the people that sol them the lies not the ones doing what they said they'd do from day one.
 
Fletch said:
Probably. But somehow I don't think you want Trump out there on his own making deals with, say, Russia now do you.
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That's not a hypothetical I need concern myself with. Trump is a deal breaker -- nobody would respect his word anyway.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The administration has been divided over recertifying during the year. The IAEA has said they cannot verify whether Iran is complying.
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Link?
 
Cardinal said:
It is. The President doesn't just represent himself, but the United States as a whole. And not only just that, but he represents the United States from before he took office and after he leaves office. That's why credibility is so important. You may shrug this off as no big deal, but as more failures in international diplomacy and negotiations continually filter into your news feed, you'll be able to look back on the reneging of the Iran deal and the Paris Accords and have an understanding as to why.
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Yep, it's too as we had a president that ignored how our government works in terms of permanence, entered us into deals he KNEW would not be able to be permanent and KNEW the other side proclaimed the intent to remove us from if they got into power again, acted and gave the impression that such things were done deals that were just the way things would be for now on giving idiots the impression that this was the norm and he went about things the wrong way.

Trump wouldn't even be in the position to cause the mess that's coming from pulling us out had Obama not acted in an irresponsible and problematic way; but here we are, in the exact scenario he was plainly told would happen, because of his arrogance and desire to just do what he wanted however possible because **** checks and balances and multi-branched governments.

Like the deal, don't like the deal, that's ultimately irrelevant. The pathetic attempt to shame and shift blame in an attempt to make a temporary unlateral action of a President into a quasi permanent international agreement is repugnant.
 
Zyphlin said:
Good. Other countries SHOULD be aware of the realities of how out system of government works. The President is not a King, they are not all powerful, and do not have the authority to make binding and permanent agreements with foriegn entities. If entities were given that impression by past administrations, that is on them and those administrations. You don't get to act on individual fiat and then expect tot just shame people into accepting such unamerican of a notion regardless of them agreeing with it or not.

The same bull**** tactic was attempted with DACA and it was as dishonest and ridiculous then as it is here. Want it permanent, do it right. Fear that people will be harmed because they were ignorantly duped that an entirely Temporary thing would be pseudo permanent, blame the people that sol them the lies not the ones doing what they said they'd do from day one.
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Nobody said he's a king, and nobody said he's all powerful. This is simply one more demonstration of the breaking of "soft" laws, i.e. norms that have generally been respected up until now but never made into actual law. And as I told Fletch, there will be consequences for that.

Another few norms:

1)Not running for President for more than two terms
2)Releasing tax returns.
3)Not using the power of the pardon for friends.

Of course that first one is baked into the constitution now, although up until FDR the two term limit was simply a custom honored for no better reason than to follow George Washington's example. The breaking of norms eventually changes law and the Presidency itself, as I believe will happen with tax returns and a tightening of freedom with regard to the pardon.

And will the office of the Presidency change after Trump goes back on his word as he did with the Paris Accord and now with Iran? You betcha.

Actions have consequences.
 
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