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‘Death spiral’: Tillerson makes nice but may not last long with Trump

Cardinal

Cardinal

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The moment was as remarkable as it was unprecedented: A sitting U.S. secretary of state took to the microphone to pledge his fealty to the president — despite his well-documented unhappiness in the job and the growing presumption in Washington that he is a short-timer.
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But Tillerson’s move on Wednesday to reassure Trump of his convictions may well be too little and too late for the long term, according to the accounts of 19 current and former senior administration officials and Capitol Hill aides, most of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to offer candid assessments.
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Meanwhile, Tillerson — who ran one of the world’s largest corporations with near-dictatorial control — has struggled to submit to the whims and wishes of a boss who governs by impulse. Deliberative in style, he has been caught off-guard by Trump’s fiery and injudicious tweets and repulsed by some flashes of the president’s character, such as when Trump said there were “fine people” among those marching at a deadly white supremacist rally in Charlottesville. “The president speaks for himself,” Tillerson said at the time.
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For months now, Trump has been piqued by rumors of disloyalty that have filtered up to him from Foggy Bottom, the home of the State Department. In private meetings, the president has also been irked by Tillerson’s arguments for a more-traditional approach on policies, from Iran to climate change to North Korea, and by Tillerson’s visible frustration when overruled. Trump has chafed at what he sees as arrogance on the part of an employee. And as Tillerson has traveled the globe, Trump believes his top diplomat often seems more concerned with what the world thinks of the United States than with tending to the president’s personal image.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d19894-a921-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html

From the need for absolute fealty, to regularly undermining the State Department, to having to stomach indefensible public statements to a prioritization for the protection of his self image over the good of the country, it is precisely the qualities of a kakocracy that his replacement will probably be worse. Although the process for Tillerson's departure has definitely been long and drawn out due to being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration, it's not terribly difficult to see why betting odds are on when he leaves, not if. Probably the only hopeful scenario is one in which another general replaces Tillerson, seeing as military people are the only demographic whom Trump seems genuinely in awe of and most loathe to publicly humiliate.

What is in store for the the department of the White House tasked with communicating with the outside world?
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d19894-a921-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html

From the need for absolute fealty, to regularly undermining the State Department, to having to stomach indefensible public statements to a prioritization for the protection of his self image over the good of the country, it is precisely the qualities of a kakocracy that his replacement will probably be worse. Although the process for Tillerson's departure has definitely been long and drawn out due to being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration, it's not terribly difficult to see why betting odds are on when he leaves, not if. Probably the only hopeful scenario is one in which another general replaces Tillerson, seeing as military people are the only demographic whom Trump seems genuinely in awe of and most loathe to publicly humiliate.

What is in store for the the department of the White House tasked with communicating with the outside world?
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Replacing Tillerson, hmmmmm.

Is Trump a mechanic or a parts-changer?
 
Winston said:
Replacing Tillerson, hmmmmm.

Is Trump a mechanic or a parts-changer?
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I don't follow. When Tillerson leaves, Trump will need to appoint a new SoS.
 
Cardinal said:
I don't follow. When Tillerson leaves, Trump will need to appoint a new SoS.
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In the mechanic world a "parts-changer" is a low quality mechanic.

A real mechanic looks at a defective piece of machinery. Performs tests on the machine. Diagnoses the problem. And fixes the right part, the first time. (hopefully)

A parts-changer has no idea what he is doing, and just starts replacing parts willy-nilly, until he happens upon the defective part due to sheer luck or the elimination of possible options.

It's an analogy. Is Trump fixing the problems within the engine, or just changing parts out hoping to root out the problem.

Of course we all know the problem is actually Trump himself. And no matter who you pair him with, he will still taste sour and overbearing.
 
I remember how much the left hated the appointment of Tillerson. Now hes their best friend.
 
Winston said:
In the mechanic world a "parts-changer" is a low quality mechanic.

A real mechanic looks at a defective piece of machinery. Performs tests on the machine. Diagnoses the problem. And fixes the right part, the first time. (hopefully)

A parts-changer has no idea what he is doing, and just starts replacing parts willy-nilly, until he happens upon the defective part due to sheer luck or the elimination of possible options.

It's an analogy. Is Trump fixing the problems within the engine, or just changing parts out hoping to root out the problem.

Of course we all know the problem is actually Trump himself. And no matter who you pair him with, he will still taste sour and overbearing.
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Ah. I didn't know mechanic lingo. Yes, Trump is essentially the problem here, and I see no solution to the problem besides appointing a SoS who can a)be passably competent and b)not be undermined and humiliated by the President at every turn. For both of those descriptions to be filled I see no alternative than another 3-4 star general.
 
Fletch said:
I remember how much the left hated the appointment of Tillerson. Now hes their best friend.
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Your interpretation leaves much to be desired.
 
Fletch said:
You know how I hate to disappoint you.
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I'm afraid that it's you who must be disappointed. Interpreting this thread to mean that Tillerson is the left's new best friend is...inaccurate. How you even got that out of the OP is puzzling, to say the least.
 
Fletch said:
I remember how much the left hated the appointment of Tillerson. Now hes their best friend.
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It's not that he is the best friend, but the replacement of him is an indication of dysfunction in the Trump administration. He is one of the few people that isn't totally incompetent that got appointed too. At this point, it is a matter of 'will someone who is at least not totally incompetent be replaced by someone who is totally off the wall'. The evil you know verses the evil you don't know.
 
Cardinal said:
I'm afraid that it's you who must be disappointed. Interpreting this thread to mean that Tillerson is the left's new best friend is...inaccurate. How you even got that out of the OP is puzzling, to say the least.
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Perhaps it was you referring to Tillerson as "being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration." I suppose I could go back and quote some of the things lefties said about him when he was appointed, but that really isn't necessary is it.
 
Fletch said:
Perhaps it was you referring to Tillerson as "being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration." I suppose I could go back and quote some of the things lefties said about him when he was appointed, but that really isn't necessary is it.
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And what is the operative adverb in that selected quoted?
 
It would fit the pattern.

1. There are rumors X is not getting along with Trump.
2. #fake news
3. It is reported X is very unhappy and about to quit.
4. #fake news
5. It is reported X is about to resign or be fired.
6. Official statement - that is ridiculous - #fake news
7. X is resigning
8. #doesn't matter #good #maga
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d19894-a921-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html

From the need for absolute fealty, to regularly undermining the State Department, to having to stomach indefensible public statements to a prioritization for the protection of his self image over the good of the country, it is precisely the qualities of a kakocracy that his replacement will probably be worse. Although the process for Tillerson's departure has definitely been long and drawn out due to being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration, it's not terribly difficult to see why betting odds are on when he leaves, not if. Probably the only hopeful scenario is one in which another general replaces Tillerson, seeing as military people are the only demographic whom Trump seems genuinely in awe of and most loathe to publicly humiliate.

What is in store for the the department of the White House tasked with communicating with the outside world?
Click to expand...

The State Dept, indisputably the most prestigious dept, is a rats' nest of disloyalty to the United States. These people are all more concerned with what the world thinks, rather than the American people.
 
American said:
The State Dept, indisputably the most prestigious dept, is a rats' nest of disloyalty to the United States. These people are all more concerned with what the world thinks, rather than the American people.
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Oh boy :roll:
 
Fletch said:
Perhaps it was you referring to Tillerson as "being one of the few relatively respectable members of the administration." I suppose I could go back and quote some of the things lefties said about him when he was appointed, but that really isn't necessary is it.
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Everything is relative. I don't think he's good for his position, but he's a lot better than others. At least he's not getting involved in any private jet scandals.
 
American said:
The State Dept, indisputably the most prestigious dept, is a rats' nest of disloyalty to the United States. These people are all more concerned with what the world thinks, rather than the American people.
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:roll: I see that you would not make a good diplomat , or even anything to do with that department.
 
Cardinal said:
I don't follow. When Tillerson leaves, Trump will need to appoint a new SoS.
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You really mean yet another public Trump ass kisser, right?
 
RAMOSS said:
:roll: I see that you would not make a good diplomat , or even anything to do with that department.
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When I see what kind of foreign policy Obama had, I can see clearly what kind of people he had there. Sending the President on an apology tour got him feigned respect and probably laughs behind the scenes. If this is who we have in the State Dept, good luck.
 
American said:
When I see what kind of foreign policy Obama had, I can see clearly what kind of people he had there. Sending the President on an apology tour got him feigned respect and probably laughs behind the scenes. If this is who we have in the State Dept, good luck.
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Post 15 suggests you wouldn't approve of the State Department under any administration in US history.
 
Tillerson sounded confident and competent at yesterday's Press Conference. I just do not believe Tillerson spoke truthfully.

If Tillerson, as widely reported by the Press prior to and even after the Press Conference, truly has a strained relationship with Trump, I expect a replacement within the next few months.

Tillerson, Gen. Mattis, Lt. Gen McMaster, Admiral Rogers, Gen. Kelly, Nikki Haley.... all of them... would conspire in a heartbeat if they truly felt a specific decision by Trump posed an egregious threat to our National Security and World Order. We would not have to wait for Congress to act.
 
SMTA said:
You really mean yet another public Trump ass kisser, right?
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Under the normal rules of a kakocracy, yes, that would be the expectation.
 
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