• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls say

kaerin

kaerin

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 20, 2017
Messages
394
Reaction score
355
Location
Istanbul
Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls say

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been re-elected for a fourth term in federal elections, exit polls suggest.

Her conservative CDU/CSU alliance has won 32.5% of the vote, remaining the largest party in Germany's parliament, according to the ARD poll. Its coalition partner, the social democratic SPD, has gained 20%.

Meanwhile, the AfD, a far-right nationalist, anti-Islam party, was on track to win 13.5%, emerging as Germany's third-strongest party.
Click to expand...

Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls say - BBC News

Discuss
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

When the respectable political parties refuse to discuss certain topics, the disrespectable ones will.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

kaerin said:
Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls say - BBC News

Discuss
Click to expand...

I don't usually comment on foreign issues, but since you posted this in the breaking news section I guess I can offer an opinion.

IMO the E.U., guided by Merkel's administration, has made a serious mistake in it's open border migration policy. From all reports the biggest beneficiaries are young men seeking the advantages of more successful economies, and these young men are bringing all their old habits with them.

There are constant reports of increasing crime rates, primarily from this new population group. There is also an increasing drain on public resources via social welfare programs. This doesn't even touch on the culture-clashing conflicts.

There are four states, Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic, and Slovakia who are refusing to accept refugees and facing E.U. sanctions, and the UK Brexit vote shows England is fed up as well.

Eventually, as German's and French (and perhaps Sweden et. al) continue to experience the negative impact of such unrestricted migratory stresses the radical right will gain more power and nothing good will come of that.

IMO this minor, albeit socially significant, growth in support for the far-right in Merkel's Germany (and reflected in the last French election too) is only the tip of the ice burg.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Captain Adverse said:
I don't usually comment on foreign issues, but since you posted this in the breaking news section I guess I can offer an opinion.

IMO the E.U., guided by Merkel's administration, has made a serious mistake in it's open border migration policy. From all reports the biggest beneficiaries are young men seeking the advantages of more successful economies, and these young men are bringing all their old habits with them.

There are constant reports of increasing crime rates, primarily from this new population group. There is also an increasing drain on public resources via social welfare programs. This doesn't even touch on the culture-clashing conflicts.

There are four states, Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic, and Slovakia who are refusing to accept refugees and facing E.U. sanctions, and the UK Brexit vote shows England is fed up as well.

Eventually, as German's and French (and perhaps Sweden et. al) continue to experience the negative impact of such unrestricted migratory stresses the radical right will gain more power and nothing good will come of that.

IMO this minor, albeit socially significant, growth in support for the far-right in Merkel's Germany (and reflected in the last French election too) is only the tip of the ice burg.
Click to expand...

Then the other question is where are they going to go, they have to go somewhere. What are you going to do fly them back? Ship them back? Drive them back? You can't and not only that, you have international law in the way. Even if they were sent back what stops them from coming back?
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Merkel's politics is now dependent on stuntsmanship, and she's used Syria's civil war to import a new crop of future voters for herself, to ensure that her politics survives.

It's rather ironic and telling that Merkel herself first won the vote by being a conservative - her party is the Christian Democratic Union - but since then she's had to reinvent herself in a series of moves to make herself into a more progressive candidate in order to survive. This has to do with the fact that she has no true political base that reflects the entirety of her views and agenda. There are others like Turkey's Erdogan who've had to do this over time as well.

Nobody can keep surviving on stuntsmanship forever. She'll eventually wear out her welcome. Germany doesn't have term limits like the US does, which is to its detriment, because the longer she continues in power, the greater the stunts she'll resort to in order to hang onto power.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Captain Adverse said:
I don't usually comment on foreign issues, but since you posted this in the breaking news section I guess I can offer an opinion.

IMO the E.U., guided by Merkel's administration, has made a serious mistake in it's open border migration policy. From all reports the biggest beneficiaries are young men seeking the advantages of more successful economies, and these young men are bringing all their old habits with them.

There are constant reports of increasing crime rates, primarily from this new population group. There is also an increasing drain on public resources via social welfare programs. This doesn't even touch on the culture-clashing conflicts.

There are four states, Hungary, Poland, The Czech Republic, and Slovakia who are refusing to accept refugees and facing E.U. sanctions, and the UK Brexit vote shows England is fed up as well.

Eventually, as German's and French (and perhaps Sweden et. al) continue to experience the negative impact of such unrestricted migratory stresses the radical right will gain more power and nothing good will come of that.

IMO this minor, albeit socially significant, growth in support for the far-right in Merkel's Germany (and reflected in the last French election too) is only the tip of the ice burg.
Click to expand...

There are constant reports of increasing crime rates, primarily from this new population group.


That is not the case in the US at all. But yeah, as growing and power structure nurtured economic disparity is left unaddressed worldwide, fascism will find an opening in which to rear its ugly ****ty little head again.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Carjosse said:
Then the other question is where are they going to go, they have to go somewhere. What are you going to do fly them back? Ship them back? Drive them back? You can't and not only that, you have international law in the way. Even if they were sent back what stops them from coming back?
Click to expand...

NO! :no:

They don't "have to go somewhere."

They can stay in their own countries and deal with the problems instead of running from them.

I am fairly clear on migration vs. immigration:


Captain Adverse said:
There has been a lot of debate surrounding how America should handle the issues of Latin American immigrants and Moslem refugees.

Those arguing for a liberal acceptance with open arms base their arguments on humanitarian principles and often quote "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" from the Statue of Liberty.

Those arguing against speak of terrorism, job competition, crime.

However, I think we need to recognize that we are actually dealing with two types of "huddled masses," Immigrants and Migrants. They are not the same thing, and I suggest we not not lump them together when developing public policy on immigration.

1. An immigrant is a person who desires to seek a new life in a society he admires and wishes to become a part of. His intention is to try to integrate and become an accepted member. This does not mean surrendering all cultural differences, but it does indicate a willingness to blend in as much as possible. I laud this group and have no problem with easing immigration laws as long as we insure all applicants properly follow immigration law.

2. A migrant is either fleeing a bad situation and merely looking for a new place to set up his old culture, or someone who is seeking temporary economic advantages with every intention of returning to the home country. Depending on which type we are dealing with I have some concerns with how we deal with them.

An example of economic migrants are those Mexicans who cross the border seeking seasonal work. They come, huddle together in cramped apartments, work wherever and however they can, save everything they can and then go back across the border and live on the money they earned here. That is their sole purpose. I have no problem with this group because they don't really take away any jobs that a typical American would want to do. They fill a niche, do their jobs, and try to stay under the radar until they can go home. I can accept easing work visa laws for this type of migrant.

However, Somalians, Syrians, and other refugees from Africa, Asia and the Middle East are a different story. As amply demonstrated both here (with Somali's) and in Europe (Moslems), they are simply attempting to transplant their entire culture from THERE to HERE. Think in terms of historical world migrations. The Goths, Huns, Hittites, Mongols, and let's not leave this out; Europeans who came to America. In every case the new culture will inevitably clash with the old and only one can win. This is my concern.

Now I don't think we need a "Great Wall" along any border. However, I do believe we need to differentiate between true immigrants and the two types of migrants, then prevent any influx of the cultural migrations. I don't believe it is a good idea to let cultural mass migrations succeed. IMO they need to learn to stay home and deal with the problems they created rather than be allowed to transplant those problems wholesale to our country. Immigration law should prevent their entrance. If you feel sorry for them, then we should create temporary refugee camps (perhaps on some of our Pacific Island possessions) and once we have found a new "homeland" that they can re-integrate into help them return to it.
Click to expand...

That view holds for the E.U., and has been amply demonstrated over the last couple of years.
 
Carjosse said:
Then the other question is where are they going to go, they have to go somewhere. What are you going to do fly them back? Ship them back? Drive them back? You can't and not only that, you have international law in the way. Even if they were sent back what stops them from coming back?
Click to expand...

International Law states quite clearly that refugees are to remain in the first safe territory they reach and are to be returned to their country of origin after the end of the conflict, and there is no legal requirement to provide residency status to economic migrants.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Captain Adverse said:
NO! :no:

They don't "have to go somewhere."

They can stay in their own countries and deal with the problems instead of running from them.

I am fairly clear on migration vs. immigration:
Click to expand...

So you choose to just ignore the problem, and not offer any real solution. How do you deal with the people fleeing the conflict which is a perfectly valid reason to leave a country, they have to worry whether or not their house will be get blown up today or whether it is safe to get food. These people are fleeing war in their home countries, they will come whether you think they should or not. What am I asking is what do you do with those who come? Do you let them drown in the sea?
 
PraiseKek said:
International Law states quite clearly that refugees are to remain in the first safe territory they reach and are to be returned to their country of origin after the end of the conflict, and there is no legal requirement to provide residency status to economic migrants.
Click to expand...

So drown Greece or Turkey in migrants instead of spreading it out? And no one is claiming they will not be sent back once the conflict is over.
 
Carjosse said:
So drown Greece or Turkey in migrants instead of spreading it out? And no one is claiming they will not be sent back once the conflict is over.
Click to expand...

Indeed, we (Turks) already host 3,3 million of Syrians in our lands. (the most in the world) You cant imagine how tough it is, they dont speak the language, nor any have a clue about the culture here. Many who are unqualified become thief or rapist etc. Of course we will not accept having them all LOL.
 
Last edited:
Merkel is now reinventing herself as a champion of tolerance and the great bulwark against "evil fascist forces"

But in eagerly embracing Merkel, how quickly the desperate liberals forget



If Trump had uttered these words, the liberals would be burning effigies of him. But in their gratitude towards Merkel, all is forgotten by liberals.
 
AfD seen as neo-Nazi now has 88 seats in the parliament, 3rd strongest party. Things will tense in Germany.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Carjosse said:
So you choose to just ignore the problem, and not offer any real solution. How do you deal with the people fleeing the conflict which is a perfectly valid reason to leave a country, they have to worry whether or not their house will be get blown up today or whether it is safe to get food. These people are fleeing war in their home countries, they will come whether you think they should or not. What am I asking is what do you do with those who come? Do you let them drown in the sea?
Click to expand...

Short answer? Ship them back. :shrug:

You'd know that from my citation of a prior post in my last response to you.

If one can flee rather than dealing with the problem, they will choose the easier option. That does not mean we have to accept their choice.

So, long answer? Set up TEMPORARY refugee shelters in isolated areas (preferably some island somewhere they can't break out of) and provide humanitarian aid and support. Then ship them back "home."
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

France and Germany, the fathers of the EU, decided to band together again in the attempt to save the dream......But the French are imploding and the Germans are worn out with their country generally moving in reverse....this does not bode well for the Europe Project.

New better ideas were hugely important right here.

They did not turn up.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

The longer the EU juggling act goes on, the bigger it gets - and the more calamitous it will be when it collapses.

Super-scapegoating will be required to deflect the blame, naturally.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Captain Adverse said:
Short answer? Ship them back. :shrug:

You'd know that from my citation of a prior post in my last response to you.

If one can flee rather than dealing with the problem, they will choose the easier option. That does not mean we have to accept their choice.

So, long answer? Set up TEMPORARY refugee shelters in isolated areas (preferably some island somewhere they can't break out of) and provide humanitarian aid and support. Then ship them back "home."
Click to expand...

That is a lot easier said than done, how are you going to ship them back to an active warzone? You think people should not try to flee a war in their home country? Who gives a **** if the innocent are being massacred and killed in their own homes right?

I don't think you would be so stalwart if it was your home being bombed and your family being killed.
 
Last edited:
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

By all sounds there is not going to be a continuation of the current CDU-CSU/SPD coalition.

Martin Schulz, SPD leader, has ruled it out tonight.

That'll make for interesting machinations, the only conceivable (barely conceivable) alternative being a CDU-CSU/Green/FDP coalition.

Considering that FDP and Greens are more at odds with each other than either is with Merkel's bunch, there'll have to be a lot of bending over backwards for any of that to work.

But political spines are made of rubber.
 
sanman said:
Merkel is now reinventing herself as a champion of tolerance and the great bulwark against "evil fascist forces"

But in eagerly embracing Merkel, how quickly the desperate liberals forget



If Trump had uttered these words, the liberals would be burning effigies of him. But in their gratitude towards Merkel, all is forgotten by liberals.
Click to expand...


As long as she's talking "multiculturalism" as inclusion and not segregation, then I don't have a problem with her words.

But if Trump had uttered those words he definitely would have meant segregation.
 
kaerin said:
AfD seen as neo-Nazi now has 88 seats in the parliament, 3rd strongest party. Things will tense in Germany.
Click to expand...
From what I hear, that really surprises nobody in Germany by now.

What many had not expected (or perhaps had hoped would not materialize) were the significant losses of both the currently governing (in coalition) parties to the benefit of the resurgent FDP (liberal according to German standards, not according to US).

Sure, AfD gained plenty from those that had voted Conservative and Social Democrat before, but it gained the lion's share of its votes from the camp of those that had so far not voted in elections (either by abstaining in the last one or not having been eligible yet at the time).
 
Moot said:
As long as she's talking "multiculturalism" as inclusion and not segregation, then I don't have a problem with her words. ......................~
Click to expand...
She is.
 
PraiseKek said:
International Law states quite clearly that refugees are to remain in the first safe territory they reach and are to be returned to their country of origin after the end of the conflict, and there is no legal requirement to provide residency status to economic migrants.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure which treaty you are referring to.
 
Moot said:
As long as she's talking "multiculturalism" as inclusion and not segregation, then I don't have a problem with her words.

But if Trump had uttered those words he definitely would have meant segregation.
Click to expand...

Face it, you'll contrive any justification to apply double standards.

Trump's "America First" economic nationalism isn't racially based, it's America-based, and will help marginalized groups to protect themselves from economic predation originating from abroad. But you're desperate to put a racial spin on it, so that you can practice Divide-and-Conquer.


Merkel has been oscillating all over the map - she was originally a conservative (Christian Democratic Union), but later found she needs the rest of Europe as a pedestal to shore up her country, so she became a big Euro-cheerleader (while ensuring EU is tightly arranged around her country). Then she found Europeans to be too unreliable, so she's decided she needs to embrace refugees from abroad and import more voters who'll be grateful/loyal to her. It's not like she's suddenly developed a love for refugees - it's more like necessity is the mother of invention.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom