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Germany election: Merkel wins fourth term, exit polls say

Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...etry-quits-party-german-election-breakthrough


[FONT=&quot]The rightwing nationalist Alternative für Deutschland, in celebratory mode after coming third in Germany’s elections, was delivered a bombshell by its leader on Monday morning after she announced she would not sit with the party in the Bundestag.[/FONT]

The civil war in the AfD continues as they enter mainstream politics..

She literally walked out of the news conference the party was holding to praise it self.

Now she is a fascist at the core.. demanding the army shoot illegals at the border and such things, but damn that sent a signal to the world.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...etry-quits-party-german-election-breakthrough




The civil war in the AfD continues as they enter mainstream politics..

She literally walked out of the news conference the party was holding to praise it self.

Now she is a fascist at the core.. demanding the army shoot illegals at the border and such things, but damn that sent a signal to the world.
Yeah, what goes round comes round.

Basically she's getting the same sort of treatment that she afforded Bernd Lucke when she ousted him and his moderate crowd from the party they themselves had founded on completely different pretexts and ideals.

Now her efforts to make the party more acceptable to moderate voters by lessening the extremism she herself played the greatest role in creating, are running into Nazi stone-walling.

She's been basically dismantled already by the beasts she spawned and this is just her running out in a tantrum.

I'll henceforth name her Frauke "offinahuff" Petry.

Interestingly France' FN is in similar meltdown mode right now. Having a completely different electoral system than Germany, where Marine got far more votes respectively than AfD in Germany, she now suffers virtual insignificance and her crowd of fascists is already sharpening the long knives.

But (back to Germany) the AfD having entered federal parliament is both a good thing and totally expected. They didn't reach the 16 pct they were forecast at around 3 months ago, but that they wouldn't make it in altogether was not something any sane person expected.

Now, stripped of last remnants of sanity, let alone anyone capable of coming up with some sort of political program that might address the woes of the protest voters, they can happily demonstrate their general political incompetence to their hearts' content.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Let's see Germany was bombed to heck after WW2 came back strong. It spent hundreds of billions when reunited with east Germany and came back strong. It has around 3 million people of Turkish origin already in Germany.

About 1 million Syrian or African refugees will not take it down
What escapes realization (especially of some of our cross-pond paranoid hysterics) is that the lion's share of discontent in Germany (and yes, there's much of that) is down to issues that go far beyond refugees.

In fact migration comes at the bottom of the list of all the issues that the discontented voice.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Yeah, they're basically the German Trump party. Immigrants are the source of 100% of our problems and climate change is a hoax.




I know you're in US politics mode, but Germany is not the US and the ridiculous "she's importing immigrants to get them to vote for her" meme is nonsense. It doesn't work that way and this is not US politics.




This is what it's really about. Americans who are clueless about German politics or what it's like to live in Germany projecting their own fears onto the region. If you asked a US conservative what it's like in Germany right now they'd tell you they're speaking arabic on the streets and a new terrorist attack happens every half hour. In reality it's still astronomically safer than the US, very racially homogenous and the vast majority of voters rejected AFD's nonsense. While only 13% of Germans voted for Trump style fascism, we Americans actually put it in in the White House. I'm far more concerned about the US.



Your nuanced and highly informed opinion on German politics is very cherished here, thank you.



American speaks only from emotion, never experience, so no, I doubt he's even been there.

I see you are unable to refute anything. Poor soul.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Which is why the German people, who obviously have way less of a clue about whether Germany is ****ed up or not than you, voted her back in. I mean, it's not as if they live there or anything, rather than getting their opinions of it from Fox news.

Btw, have you ever been to Germany?

/dumb.

I have a couple of German friends as guests with me right now at my home who agree with me.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

I have a couple of German friends as guests with me right now at my home who agree with me.

I have a couple of German relatives I skyped this weekend that don't.

And it looks like the majority of Germans are in agreement with my relatives as opposed to your friends :shrug:
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

I have a couple of German relatives I skyped this weekend that don't.

Runs in the family.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

And throughout Germany, clearly.

Looks like Merkel has her hands full with trying to form a coalition.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

What escapes realization (especially of some of our cross-pond paranoid hysterics) is that the lion's share of discontent in Germany (and yes, there's much of that) is down to issues that go far beyond refugees.

In fact migration comes at the bottom of the list of all the issues that the discontented voice.

That is, what I sometimes point out and you go into a rage, because you don't like the truth either.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

I have a couple of German friends as guests with me right now at my home who agree with me.
I have a couple of American friends that wouldn't agree with you on anything.

So bloody what? :roll:
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Yeah, what goes round comes round.

Basically she's getting the same sort of treatment that she afforded Bernd Lucke when she ousted him and his moderate crowd from the party they themselves had founded on completely different pretexts and ideals.

Now her efforts to make the party more acceptable to moderate voters by lessening the extremism she herself played the greatest role in creating, are running into Nazi stone-walling.

She's been basically dismantled already by the beasts she spawned and this is just her running out in a tantrum.

I'll henceforth name her Frauke "offinahuff" Petry.

Interestingly France' FN is in similar meltdown mode right now. Having a completely different electoral system than Germany, where Marine got far more votes respectively than AfD in Germany, she now suffers virtual insignificance and her crowd of fascists is already sharpening the long knives.

But (back to Germany) the AfD having entered federal parliament is both a good thing and totally expected. They didn't reach the 16 pct they were forecast at around 3 months ago, but that they wouldn't make it in altogether was not something any sane person expected.

Now, stripped of last remnants of sanity, let alone anyone capable of coming up with some sort of political program that might address the woes of the protest voters, they can happily demonstrate their general political incompetence to their hearts' content.

Frankly Merkel should look north to Denmark. She cant ignore the AfD and have to address some of their concerns within reason. Else you get a Danish situation, where the biggest right wing party is the Danish version of AfD (some what lite version), but no one wants really to work with them. So in Denmark you have strange situation where the second biggest right wing party is running a minority government with the backing of the biggest right wing party, aka the Danish peoples party.. but in reality works across the middle to get most things done as they dont want to bend too much to the racist fanatics in the Danish Peoples Party. Unfortunately it has meant that Denmark has become more nationalistic and racist, which is a serious problem in my opinion.
 
Well, correct. I somehow missed the flow after 1980 military coup, also forgot about the part them bringing families at the time. You are right on both, Germany indeed accepted many asylum seekers from here.

Regarding the first paragraph, of course I dont think Syrian refugees mean harm, absolutely foolish to generalise them.

My point was, Turkish migration back then was not uncontrolled and sudden like this Syrian flow. Society was and is OK with it. There was no neo-nazi party in the partliament in 1950s or 1980s.

This doesnt mean Syrians are the source of problem, but something didn't go right for the German govt. regarding convincing their people.

Speaking of Europe; Turkey, Germany, Greece all suffered a lot in this Syrian crisis. While most European countries only kept watching. It is easy points to grab for right wing parties in the mentioned countries.


A large influx of people with a vastly different culture and different language (I doubt many Syrians could speak a word of German, while many could in french or english) arriving in a short period of time. All to a country that does not see much immigration (outside of other europeans) as opposed to say Canada which accepts 220 000 immigrants per year.

Combined with the fact the people coming had little to no resources.

Not to expect some backlash would be naive.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

Frankly Merkel should look north to Denmark. She cant ignore the AfD and have to address some of their concerns within reason. Else you get a Danish situation, where the biggest right wing party is the Danish version of AfD (some what lite version), but no one wants really to work with them. So in Denmark you have strange situation where the second biggest right wing party is running a minority government with the backing of the biggest right wing party, aka the Danish peoples party.. but in reality works across the middle to get most things done as they dont want to bend too much to the racist fanatics in the Danish Peoples Party. Unfortunately it has meant that Denmark has become more nationalistic and racist, which is a serious problem in my opinion.
I'll be the first to admit utter ignorance on what goes on in Denmark so I can't really make any comparisons.

The thing that strikes me wrt Germany (as far away from it as I am) is that anybody trying to move to the right in order to crowd the AfD out, invariably suffers losses in elections.

It's basically the "well, might as well vote for the original" attitude.

What Germany has, as far as I can tell, suffered is the virtual absence of any significant parliamentary opposition in the last 8 years (if indeed not the past 12).

That's the essence of "big" coalitions (i.e. two biggest parties forming the government), it's the sure-fire recipe for inertia and it usually takes just one period in power to piss most everyone off. And they've had three. One with the FDP which subsequently lost parliament altogether, and two with the SPD, now incurring the heaviest of losses.

Current joke I heard from a neighbor is that his 12 year old daughter told him that Schulz could never make Chancellor on account of not being a woman. It's kind of a spin-off from the times of Kohl when kids supposedly (for the sake of the joke) thought Chancellorship to be inherited and ending only by death of the holder.

There's a lot to be said for the two term regulation cross-pond, it certainly precludes self complacency taking root forever.

Don't get me wrong, the majority of Germans are well off by all one can see and that still reflects in Merkel having gained the most votes even now.

But a sizeable portion (especially in the East) feels left by the roadside and not all of them are suffering from victim-hood delusion, the fast lane for them actually IS blocked and has been for some time.

And where that is a happy hunting ground for the likes of AfD (incapable of addressing those woes even if given two centuries), not all that gave its votes to the extreme right are necessarily of Nazi persuasion. Many are totally aware of the fact that that's not where any solutions lie, they're just poking their fingers into the eyes of the establishment.

Which AfD also instrumentalizes in promising to drive everyone else before them to the point of dizziness.

And if the usual suspects allow themselves to be driven rather than develop some perspective of their own, they'll keep losing.

As just one example: people that have trouble paying their energy bills don't give a damn whether their electricity is from windmills or from nuclear plants. But if the "clean" juice actually costs more on account of the transition costs needing to be financed somehow, they understandably get annoyed.

I can afford to pay extra so, were I German and/or living there, I'd belong to the happy majority. As such I'd probably get incensed over the transition period (toxic to clean) being bridged by burning lignite (as is being done), but were I in a position where my money regularly runs out by the 20th of the month, I'd probably take the stance for them to darn well burn up politicians as a power source for all I care, as long as that makes my lights stay on.

That's just one example.

The European powerhouse ranks somewhere behind Colombia when it comes to internet connectivity out in the sticks (never mind speed). That's already annoying for people having to live there, the far more serious problem though is that it prevents companies from establishing plants or offices there, thus creating jobs.

Just another one but the list is endless.

And they've been shooting off at the mouth over it all in Berlin for years and have done absolutely nothing.
 
Re: Far-right AfD makes historic breakthrough in Germany

I wonder if Frau Merkel will be the longest serving PM/Chancelor in Europe. Nobody seem to stop her in the elections to come.
 
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