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Senate GOP tries one last time to repeal Obamacare

Cardinal said:
Focus. The thread topic is the latest Trumpcare bill. How does it fix anything? Read the OP.
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The closer Republicans are to a straight repeal, the better off the U.S. would be. Every time it waivers from that goal, while still keeping the idea that somehow cutting this or that by billions and hundreds of billions, or even trillions, will do anything good, the worse the outcome for the healthcare system, those receiving healthcare, and the American economy. For instance, because they rely on the reconciliation process, they can't straight repeal the ACA. They have to leave chunks of it in there. The skinny repeal, therefore, would do more damage to the healthcare system than a straight repeal, and neither are particularly helpful at all. Then, the AHCA & BCRA took an additional approach, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the ACA: block granting and capping Medicaid. It's going to be a domino effect up and down the economy, state budgets, and least of all, the prison system. No one campaigned on it, no Governor or state legislature truly wants it or wants to deal with the consequences from it, but somehow it became the de facto approach.
 
Cardinal said:
Focus. The thread topic is the latest Trumpcare bill. How does it fix anything? Read the OP.
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If it takes the Government out the Health insurance bussieness and ends the mandate, ends price controls and gives Insurers the right to sell policies based on risk and based on the needs of the consumer, it fixes quite a bit.

Pretry much every innane rule and regulation written into the ACA by Left wing hacks like Jonathon Gruber need to go.
 
j-mac said:
Did you miss the "IMHO" part....? It's right there, even in what you copied, and pasted from me....hmmmm....
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Yeah, guess I missed the part where you did pull that comment out of your ass. Silly me - lesson learned. Will remember next time that you have the tendency to not have real statistics to back up your assertions, but rely on knee-jerk opinions based nowhere in fact.


See, you can always tell when a liberal is disagreed with, how little of an argument they really have based on their temperament that follows...I literally said nothing like what you just ascribed to me here....All you are doing here is getting upset because someone disagrees with you.
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You said that people shouldn't go to the doctor if they have a cold. You said that people should go to Walmart to get cold medicine. Do I need to show you where you said that?

I am not getting upset because you disagree with me. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I feel like you are not grasping the idea that someone who is symptomatic of a cold could actually have another ailment - something that could be much worse. Who put you in charge to decide who gets to go to the doctor? That's all I am trying to find out, and that has nothing to do with anger, or left/right politics at all.

You said people who have colds shouldn't go to the doctor. Is this your professional medical opinion, or just something else that you are pulling out of your ass?
 
Fenton said:
If it takes the Government out the Health insurance bussieness and ends the mandate, ends price controls and gives Insurers the right to sell policies based on risk and based on the needs of the consumer, it fixes quite a bit.

Pretry much every innane rule and regulation written into the ACA by Left wing hacks like Jonathon Gruber need to go.
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Except it doesn't. If you take out the individual mandate and put nothing in its place, it destabilizes the system entirely, which no major insurance provider has advocated for. Hence why early drafts of those bills missing an individual mandate substitute had to put something in there. So, what they did, because an individual mandate from the ACA was the bad guy, they went one step further in the BCRA. If you had a gap in coverage, the federal government would lock you out of the insurance system for half a year. So, basically, they took a less than popular portion of the ACA and made it worse, in response to necessity.
 
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Cardinal said:
Democrats have asked the CBO for a full and complete assessment of the latest version of Trumpcare. To date, all we have is a preliminary CBO assessment that's based on the fact that the current version is most similar to earlier versions that had even less political supports. It should be noted that Republicans are specifically trying to pass a bill that affects everybody who isn't already on Medicaid, Medicare or in the VA before a full assessment can be made.

https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/91817/
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Obamacare is dying....So, the fact that Pelosi and the gang are out there getting the CBO to cherry pick to argue against doing anything about it, really shows how heartless democrats are.
 
j-mac said:
Obamacare is dying....So, the fact that Pelosi and the gang are out there getting the CBO to cherry pick to argue against doing anything about it, really shows how heartless democrats are.
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Actually, if anything, the ACA's death is self-induced. Insurers have almost entirely filled the county gaps, and those that haven't are only pulling out because the administration has created uncertainty with payments. Furthermore, the most popular aspects of the ACA are with regard to Medicaid Expansion, which is still providing a whopping 90-10 federal match. The sad thing is that in GCHJ amendment, they are seeking to effectively punish states, red or not, for having expanded Medicaid by stealing dollars from them and giving it to states who didn't expand Medicaid.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Your opinion is revisionist history. The term 'Obamacare' was coined by political opponents seeking a derogatory moniker. Just like the term 'Big Bang' theory was coined by Sir Fred Hoyle to be derogatory.
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See you and the Fly both think that, but you are so very wrong.
 
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MrPeanut said:
I agree with you on this. It was a bad move politically on Obama's part to accept the Obamacare label from the right. The damage it did to his party was catastrophic. As we have seen for a long time, and Trump definitely proved this past year, labeling and half-truths will regularly win out over substance. Politics isn't about having the right policies as much as it is about having the right PR.
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Not just that, did you see that spring in his step as he tells a crowd " sure, call it obamaCare, make it all about me, cause I'm awesome(paraphrase)"?

That's called giddy.

And lack of caring about the health and long term prospects of his insurance expansion, which was maybe 30th on the priority list of things the nation needed right then but he needed something sexy for his legacy so the more important work got mostly ignored..stuff like fixing the economy, shoring up the world order, heading off the forces of rebellion that lead to Trump....stuff like that.
 
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Fiddytree said:
Actually, if anything, the ACA's death is self-induced. Insurers have almost entirely filled the county gaps, and those that haven't are only pulling out because the administration has created uncertainty with payments. Furthermore, the most popular aspects of the ACA are with regard to Medicaid Expansion, which is still providing a whopping 90-10 federal match. The sad thing is that in GCHJ amendment, they are seeking to effectively punish states, red or not, for having expanded Medicaid by stealing dollars from them and giving it to states who didn't expand Medicaid.
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I found that last bit particularly shocking.

Why don't they just come out and say "you will get funding based on how much of your state voted republican"?

I wonder how republicans in California and Colorado would feel about that.
 
Absentglare said:
I found that last bit particularly shocking.

Why don't they just come out and say "you will get funding based on how much of your state voted republican"?

I wonder how republicans in California and Colorado would feel about that.
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This whole bill is designed to screw with Blue States.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
This whole bill is designed to screw with Blue States.
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Not exactly. The worst parts of it will hit red states with low populations, who also expanded Medicaid the hardest. This was particularly true with the impacts to states regarding a per capita cap or a block grant for base Medicaid.

Its just that the number of states impacted by the funding formula for dealing with Medicaid Expansion-related issues breaks into partisan ranks.
Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk
 
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Unitedwestand13 said:
Citiation of source?
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I am on my phone so no and I think I posted a video but go to Youtube and type in the search box "sure, call it oamacare" and I think you find it.

Quintessential Obama smarm.
 
Absentglare said:
I found that last bit particularly shocking.

Why don't they just come out and say "you will get funding based on how much of your state voted republican"?

I wonder how republicans in California and Colorado would feel about that.
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The even bigger question to ask would be, "if you know your state will be impacted significantly, why did you vote for it and all the other bills before it?"
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I am on my phone so no and I think I posted a video but go to Youtube and type in the search box "sure, call it oamacare" and I think you find it.

Quintessential Obama smarm.
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I am on my phone too and yet I always go out of my way to provide sources.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Not just that, did you see that spring in his step as he tells a crowd " sure, call it obamaCare, make it all about me, cause I'm awesome(paraphrase)"?
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It's called framing and it's perfectly harmless. Republicans tried to reframe the name of the ACA into Obamacare to make it a broader referendum on the President, and it worked for them. Early on Democrats were unnecessarily defensive about the slang term, saying it's offensive or something to that effect. They were more motivated by polls showing meaningfully different results by whether or not the bill was called the ACA or Obamacare. Also understandable. But by 2011 and 2012, Obama was facing re-election and was needing to run on his signature achievement. He reframed the reframe by saying "yeah, it's my achievement, and I am confident you'll like it down the road." He embraced the term, and coincidentally, also won reelection. Also understandable.
 
Jetboogieman said:
You're missing the point here.

The real benefit of this bill is that Trump will get to say he accomplished something that he had little to do with and demonstrably showed he doesn't understand and that, that's the real win here and something you're just not appreciating enough.
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It appears the Republicans are listening to folk and know their chances next year are slim and getting slimmer. They have admitted they probably won't get another chance after the mid terms so they have to act NOW...

...which translates into desperation.

I would ask anyone to look back in history and examine any such bill, thrown together as a last-gasp shot at the 'other guys" and ask what good ever came from it.

The Republican party is about to doom the country to another decade of in-fighting over health care.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The Republican party is about to doom the country to another decade of in-fighting over health care.
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It's not getting much analytical play just yet, but I think you could say "The Republican Party is about to doom the country to another decade of in-fighting over health care, because they are more concerned about primary challenges than good policy." No Republican alive would try to push the AHCA or BCRA if the primary system wasn't so decrepit. It achieves few, if any, of their policy goals, save an eventual decrease in premiums, for some people. In fact, in most aspects, it just makes old problems worse and creates entirely new ones.
 
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Fiddytree said:
It's not getting much analytical play just yet, but I think you could say "The Republican Party is about to doom the country to another decade of in-fighting over health care, because they are more concerned about primary challenges than good policy." No Republican alive would try to push the AHCA or BCRA if the primary system wasn't so decrepit. It achieves none of their policy goals, save an eventual decrease in premiums, for some people.
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BRAVO! Nicely done.

So far in this congress I suspect you could day that about ANY of the bills. It's certainly true of Trump, every damn ting he's done is about him and his ratings.
 
Fiddytree said:
It's called framing and it's perfectly harmless. Republicans tried to reframe the name of the ACA into Obamacare to make it a broader referendum on the President, and it worked for them. Early on Democrats were unnecessarily defensive about the slang term, saying it's offensive or something to that effect. They were more motivated by polls showing meaningfully different results by whether or not the bill was called the ACA or Obamacare. Also understandable. But by 2011 and 2012, Obama was facing re-election and was needing to run on his signature achievement. He reframed the reframe by saying "yeah, it's my achievement, and I am confident you'll like it down the road." He embraced the term, and coincidentally, also won reelection. Also understandable.
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It was a bad idea, and he had to know it was a bad idea.....but you are right, he put political opportunity above the long term health of his signature program.
 
Fearandloathing said:
BRAVO! Nicely done.

So far in this congress I suspect you could day that about ANY of the bills. It's certainly true of Trump, every damn ting he's done is about him and his ratings.
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I'm just waiting for states to realize that not only are their rural hospitals going to die, their state budgets are screwed and any-- any, attempt by conservatives to shrink their corrections budgets was nothing more than a fond memory, because the exact opposite will now happen.
 
Fenton said:
This whole idea that Obama's a good guy is exceedingly false. He's proved he's a ideologue who cares more about advancing his agenda by anymeans necessary than he does the people who were affected by his agenda.
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Coming from a guy who's party wants to rip access to healthcare away from millions of people to advance their political agenda.

Derp.
 
Fiddytree said:
Except it doesn't. If you take out the individual mandate and put nothing in its place, it destabilizes the system entirely, which no major insurance provider has advocated for. Hence why early drafts of those bills missing an individual mandate substitute had to put something in there. So, what they did, because an individual mandate from the ACA was the bad guy, they went one step further in the BCRA. If you had a gap in coverage, the federal government would lock you out of the insurance system for half a year. So, basically, they took a less than popular portion of the ACA and made it worse, in response to necessity.
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The system is already destabilized, its a mess.
The exchanges are and have been disproportionately stocked with older sicker policy holders because initially not enough younger sicker Americans participated.

The 2009 CBO estimate of 21 million on the exchanges was off by 12 million.

The cost of covering sicker Americans couldnt be offset because of it and that forced premiums and deductibles higher and higher as insurers tried to cover their loses.

Now younger healthier Americans are decentivized even more to stay off the exchanges because they cant afford the premiums and or the deductibles and just wind up going without health insurance

People are ignoring the mandate anyway.

Taking the Govt out of the Healthcare bussiness is exactty what needs to happen.
The architects of this bill simply had no clue what they were doing when they decided to take control of and centrally plan the US healthcare industry.
They threw our market strategies and fundamentals and inserted rules that had more to do with ideology than running a industry and it showed.

I would have some respect, not a lot but some if the Dems and Obama at least acknowledged that there were some major issues with the law and stepped in to try and head them off but that didnt happen

The Obama admin defended it right up until they left office, so screw em
 
bubbabgone said:
But this bill is from Lindsey, McCain's boy toy, so maybe he'll give it a thumbs-up.
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I don't share your hope. Heck, McCain is McConnell's boy toy, as well...and look what happened last time.

No...I believe this is all a continuation of their group con job.
 
Nilly said:
Coming from a guy who's party wants to rip access to healthcare away from millions of people to advance their political agenda.

Derp.
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Lol ! Oh yea, nailing hard working Middleclass Americans with premium hikes and deductibles that are so high having insurance is pointless.

Average deductible on the bronze plan for a family now is over 10,000 dollars That is soooo compassionate....:roll:

Promising affordable healthcare where you could keep your dr and insurance and delivering canceled policies and substantial increases in out of pocket cost was also very considerate

Wasting hundreds of millions of dolllars setting up State exchanges that never worked and wasting over a billion dollars of tax payer dollars on Co-ops that crashed and burned and leaving 1/3 of US Counties with only one provider on their exchange ?

Yea I can see why the Left loves the ACA so much, but it has nothing to do with compassion for people who may or may not lose their policies.
 
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