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Trump’s Border Wall Could Carve Path Though Native American Lands

Yes_Minister said:
Would you be okay with the government siezing your land?

What about all those farms on the Texas Mexico border, should the government seize that land and those people have to live with that.

You can't be a small government conservative and then approve of an expensive wall or the government seizing land to build it, that is a contradiction.
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Kinda like taking land and giving it to a foreign company so they can run a leaky pipeline over your drinking water. I'm really beginning to think that conservative is synonymous with hypocrite.
 
JoeTrumps said:
could be that. or it could be that if the wall gets built it means Trump gets reelected. and that scares you more than all the illegal aliens combined. right? go on, you can tell me.
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As I alluded to in my previous post, I'm not questioning your enthusiasm on this matter.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Would you be okay with the government siezing your land?

What about all those farms on the Texas Mexico border, should the government seize that land and those people have to live with that.

You can't be a small government conservative and then approve of an expensive wall or the government seizing land to build it, that is a contradiction.
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I'm not a conservative and have never even hinted at it. As for government seizing my land?

I would certainly be pissed but this is for national security so they're going to get a hefty sum. Liberals support eminent domain seizure of private property so that it can be given to corporations like Pfizer, I would support eminent domain for national security. This is national security.
 
Cardinal said:
As I alluded to in my previous post, I'm not questioning your enthusiasm on this matter.
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right. I think the major issue is illegals bleeding the welfare state dry. your major issue is where transgenders can pee legally.

Like I said, one of us is unplugged from reality.
 
JoeTrumps said:
right. I think the major issue is illegals bleeding the welfare state dry. your major issue is where transgenders can pee legally.

Like I said, one of us is unplugged from reality.
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Okay.
 
reinoe said:
I'm not a conservative and have never even hinted at it. As for government seizing my land?

I would certainly be pissed but this is for national security so they're going to get a hefty sum. Liberals support eminent domain seizure of private property so that it can be given to corporations like Pfizer, I would support eminent domain for national security. This is national security.
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National Security should not be a magic phrase that let's the government do whatever it wants, if you demand people give up their land and rights for this, they have a right know why this has been deemed important enough to superceed their rights.

Frankly the wall is something that people thinks look good on some bumper sticker, but doesn't work in the real world for several reasons:

https://www.google.ca/amp/reason.com/archives/2017/03/31/why-the-wall-wont-work/amp

And I don't support seizing private land and giving it to some corporation, that's a neo liberal corporatist positon, not a true left wing position.
 
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Yes_Minister said:
National Security should not be a magic phrase that let's the government do whatever it wants, if you demand people give up their land and rights for this, they have a right know why this has been deemed important enough to superceed their rights.

Frankly the wall is something that people thinks look good on some bumper sticker, but doesn't work in the real world for several reasons:

https://www.google.ca/amp/reason.com/archives/2017/03/31/why-the-wall-wont-work/amp

And I don't support seizing private land and giving it to some corporation, that's a neo liberal corporatist positon, not a true left wing position.
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Yes. National security is a sufficient reason. I don't think the wall would ever be built but I'm not opposed to it either. And a wall would hamper illegal immigrants coming into this country and would make illegal drugs more expensive to process and handle. Just because you think a wall would be ineffective doesn't mean it doesn't have merit.
 
reinoe said:
Yes. National security is a sufficient reason. I don't think the wall would ever be built but I'm not opposed to it either. And a wall would hamper illegal immigrants coming into this country and would make illegal drugs more expensive to process and handle. Just because you think a wall would be ineffective doesn't mean it doesn't have merit.
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So what are the limits on what the government can do in the name of national security?
 
Cardinal said:
You said you wanted a wall on the Mexican border to keep people in Mexico. Do you hate Mexicans so much that you don't think they should be allowed to study in Europe or visit Australia?
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No, I said a wall on the border is the keep people in Mexico, after you made the idiotic comparison that the Berlin wall was to keep people in and the border wall is to keep people out, as if it makes a damn bit of difference.
 
apdst said:
No, I said a wall on the border is the keep people in Mexico, after you made the idiotic comparison that the Berlin wall was to keep people in and the border wall is to keep people out, as if it makes a damn bit of difference.
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So is Mexico going to pay for a wall to prevent Mexicans from leaving their own country?
 
apdst said:
I don't know, nor does it really matter to me.
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It matters enough to you that you believe Mexicans should be imprisoned in their own country. How would you feel if a country built a wall around your house so you couldn't leave?
 
Cardinal said:
It matters enough to you that you believe Mexicans should be imprisoned in their own country. How would you feel if a country built a wall around your house so you couldn't leave?
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I never said that. Don't start lying.
 
Cardinal said:
Go back and read the posts where you said that a wall should be built to keep Mexicans in Mexico.
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I never said that Mexicans should be imprisoned in Mexico. Thanks for admitting that you lied.
 
apdst said:
I never said that Mexicans should be imprisoned in Mexico. Thanks for admitting that you lied.
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You're lying by saying I used the word "imprisoned." But imprisoning them is the end effect of building a wall to keep Mexicans in Mexico. Personally, I believe in liberty and the freedom to travel outside of your own country, just as I couldn't ever condone a wall being built to keep you from leaving your own home. Apparently you believe that people you disagree with should have walls built around their homes in order to keep them from leaving, and I think that's wrong.
 
JoeTrumps said:
like what? That border walls don't keep out illegals? Because I'm pretty sure history is on my side in that argument. What exactly are you referring to?
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The delusion that liberals will "only lose more power" as well as the delusion that a wall can stop all transit of people. Even the Berlin Wall was unable to do so; and they were a million times more willing to shoot to kill to stop desperate people from getting from point A to point B
 
Cardinal said:
You're lying by saying I used the word "imprisoned." But imprisoning them is the end effect of building a wall to keep Mexicans in Mexico. Personally, I believe in liberty and the freedom to travel outside of your own country, just as I couldn't ever condone a wall being built to keep you from leaving your own home. Apparently you believe that people you disagree with should have walls built around their homes in order to keep them from leaving, and I think that's wrong.
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Nope.

Cardinal said:
It matters enough to you that you believe Mexicans should be imprisoned in their own country. How would you feel if a country built a wall around your house so you couldn't leave?
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apdst said:
Nope.
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You're lying when you said I said you said it. Now, about those walls you want to build around other people's homes...
 
Common Sense 1 said:
San Diego is no where close to the reservation. Not sure what map you are looking at?

View attachment 67222816
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I agree but it was YOUR comment in post #36 --
San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control
San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control : NPR

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double — and in some places, triple — fencing.
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Chomsky said:
So if otherwise built, does this mean their land becomes the softspot through which smugglers, illegals, and other nefarious illegal border crossers will now funnel?

Construction on one's personal property, sovereign it may be, can have negative aspects on another's. Which is why localities require permits to build. We see this all the time with water rights and water runoff control. Actually, water run off may be an apt analogy. The tribe may be inundated due to Trump's wall!
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Here's what happened down in Douglas AZ - which is across the border from Agua Prieta - and this was years ago $1-Million Drug Tunnel Found at Mexico Border : Narcotics: The passageway ends at a warehouse in Arizona. It was used to bring cocaine into the U.S.http://http://articles.latimes.com/1990-05-19/news/mn-65_1_mexico-border

The 5-foot-tall passage linked a luxury home in Agua Prieta, Mexico, to a warehouse across the border in Arizona, where tractor-trailers and other rigs apparently were loaded with thousands of pounds of cocaine and dispatched to delivery points elsewhere in the United States. Flabbergasted Customs Service agents described the million-dollar passageway as "something out of a James Bond movie," replete with electric lighting, concrete reinforcement and a hydraulic system that raised a game-room floor in a Mexico hide-out to provide entry to the secret border crossing.

Douglas is the size of an anorexic flea - imagine what real money can do in a decent size city with technological upgrades. Smuggling people is big money because there is a huge market in the US. Coyotes are met by trucks and buses, and are paid by US companies. As long as there is a market, there will be ways across the wall.



lurchadams said:
Anyone who things the border states are going to allow a huge, costly, unsightly wall to be built on their land and through the Rio Grande is an idiot. Anyone who believed any of Trump's campaign promises is an idiot for that matter.
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sonoran-desert-national.jpg

This is the AZ border. There is no water. There is no electricity. There is no shelter. There are no buildings. There is no air conditioning. There are no grocery stores. Between May and October the temp is 100+ degrees for 12 hours a day. A person can die in that heat in in a few hours.

The few towns on the border already have large walls that extend for miles - this is the area where Trump's wall have to be built. And the infrastructure needed to support those who are building the wall will be staggering - which is why the area has not been fenced. We will have to pay for water pipes to be put underground across miles of desert. We will have to pay for electricity to be brought all along the border. We will have to pay for some form of housing - with air conditioning. We will have to pay for a clinic to provide immediate care for people suffering from heat stroke, which can be quickly fatal. All of this will be needed along hundreds of miles. Roads will be needed to transport building supplies, people, food, etc.

The Border patrol can do their jobs in air conditioned jeeps, using spotters in the air. When you talk about people doing hard physical labor in the desert with no infrastructure, you are talking about killing people quickly and painfully.

All of this will be needed - and paid for by taxpayers - before a single bit of wall can be built.
 
Cardinal said:
You're lying when you said I said you said it. Now, about those walls you want to build around other people's homes...
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You just said that I believe it. I proved that. Bazinga!
 
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