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Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116, 502]

Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Nowhere has anybody ever said that people cannot voice opposition, and you know that.

What people are sayhing is that physical violence against people that are peacefully marching is not acceptable.

There is a huge difference.

There wasn't physical violence in this situation. The people got arrested. The guy gave his speech. Yet people are still complaining.

Counter protesting can be disruptive and sound angry by nature.

Sounding like an angry protestor is not illegal. If the protest intimidates somebody, that is also not illegal.

I am actually dumbfounded and confused by the typical right wing reaction to these events. I am not being dishonest about anything. You all sound very confused about what freedom of speech is IMO.

Btw, Josie, and she is free to join this discussion, seems think it is a violation of somebody's free speech to protest against he person exercising it in a certain place.
 
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Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

Context matters, he is saying that this is the only solution to prevent bloodshed. There will never be peace between the 2 so the only option is for 1 group to be removed otherwise it will be conflict there until the end of time.

Forced removal will prevent bloodshed? Thats a new one. :roll:

So now you're advocating fascism, huh? That didn't take long.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

A few prominent fascists, according to Moot: Nelson Mandela, Mahatma Ghandi, Yasser Arafat.

More dishonesty and ignorance. ^^^

You don't get to speak for me...so stop it.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

More dishonesty and ignorance. ^^^

You don't get to speak for me...so stop it.

All nationalists, so they must be fascists, and fascism is evil. Right?
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Who is this racist that Shapiro supposedly admires?

What would your solution to the conflict be? Just let them kill each other until the end of time?

Meir Kahane.

I dunno...it wasn't my intention to hijack the thread to discuss Israeli politics but merely to show that Shapiro expresses fascist views.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

Forced removal will prevent bloodshed? Thats a new one. :roll:

So now you're advocating fascism, huh? That didn't take long.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[You don't get to speak for me...so stop it.

I'll think about it.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

Forced removal will prevent bloodshed? Thats a new one. :roll:

So now you're advocating fascism, huh? That didn't take long.

That doesn't sound like fascism, really. Only trying to understand sociatal dynamics of groups.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

More dishonesty and ignorance. ^^^

You don't get to speak for me...so stop it.

True. Ghandi was seemingly ambivalent to his people separating Hindus and Muslims.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

I guess he's not Alt-right....but he is Alt-racist.

Meir Kahane.

I dunno...it wasn't my intention to hijack the thread to discuss Israeli politics but merely to show that Shapiro expresses fascist views.

Well please feel free to back up the assertion that Ben Shapiro is a "fascist" and "alt racist" with some actual evidence.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Really? So Jews were not historically oppressed by just about everybody else in the world?

How can an oppressed minority have majority privilege?

Funny thing is, I actually listen to white nationalist discuss and debate certain topics. One topic being if Jews are white, and they are willing to accept some Jews in a white ethno state utopia based on certain ctiteria. They will accept Jews who 1. Look white 2. Don't practice Judaism, and 3. Will not oppose or cause trouble within the white ethno state. That basically boils down to not talking about being a Jew or complaining about the Holocaust. To them, that equates to somebody wanting special rights and making white people feel guilt.

White nationist are disgusting.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

Forced removal will prevent bloodshed? Thats a new one. :roll:

So now you're advocating fascism, huh? That didn't take long.

Over an extended period of time, yes there would be much less bloodshed rather than leaving 2 parties who are unable to coexist to continue fighting. It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world where everyone got along, but in this particular situation, what alternative is there if the Palestinians refuse to accept Israel's right to exist.

I wouldn't say I'm an advocate for it, I just understand the argument in this particular case. My personal view is that it is none of my business.

Conservatives are a minority on most college campuses and you don't believe they should be able to hold events on majority liberal campuses, you are essentially supporting fascism as well.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Meir Kahane.

I dunno...it wasn't my intention to hijack the thread to discuss Israeli politics but merely to show that Shapiro expresses fascist views.

Do you have any evidence of his admiration for this person? I have never heard of him outside of the link you posted.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

No, you are thinking of Milo.


Ben is not responsible for the actions of Antifa. Blaming him for the violence caused by Antifa is no different than blaming a rape victim for getting drunk at a party.

No...I'm talking about Shapiro because thats what this thread is about.

Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.

If you poke a stick at hornets nest to make them angry...the only one responsible for getting stung is you.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Do you have any evidence of his admiration for this person? I have never heard of him outside of the link you posted.

There is no evidence he has any admiration for the man mentioned. Ben Shapiro, has similar views on forced relocation, so in Moots mind it's the same thing.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

No...I'm talking about Shapiro because thats what this thread is about.

Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.

If you poke a stick at hornets nest to make them angry...the only one responsible for getting stung is you.

He was invited by conservative groups to speak. So I guess he is forcing college students etc to invite him to speak? That is just illogical reasoning on a scale that ranks up there with conspiracy theorists.

And yes. Your reasoning is the same as blaming the victim.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

I didn't support such a group. I am condemning the identity politics of using a handful of crazies that deviate meaningfully from "the left" as a bludgeon to attack "the left".

How do 'anti fa' types differ meaningfully from the Left?
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Do you have any evidence of his admiration for this person? I have never heard of him outside of the link you posted.

Neither had I. But as the article pointed out, Shapiro wrote an article advocating for the same extremeist facist policy of forced removal that Kahane advocated for. I'm pretty sure he didn't think it up himself.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

There is no evidence he has any admiration for the man mentioned. Ben Shapiro, has similar views on forced relocation, so in Moots mind it's the same thing.

Where's the evidence that it's "great speech," BD? Apparently, in your mind 'gish gallop' is the same thing as a great speech.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

No...I'm talking about Shapiro because thats what this thread is about.

Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.

If you poke a stick at hornets nest to make them angry...the only one responsible for getting stung is you.

Unlike Milo, Ben is a successful author and political pundit who has the largest conservative podcast in the nation (and at one time the second largest podcast only behind Oprah). He doesn't need the exposure. He has done speeches long before Antifa was around stirring up trouble, he was at Berkeley just last year with little to no protests or violence. He is not responsible for anyone's actions but his own. If someone is so unhinged that they would resort to violence because they disagree with someone than that is purely an issue with them.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters[W:116]

Right wingers seem confused and definitely have a sense of privilege if they think anybody should get to exercise their free speech without anybody voicing any opposition. BTW, I am not condoning violence. Violence is not protected under the first amendment. Voicing opposition to somebody's speech, ideology, or a proposed government legislation is protected speech.

The objection isn't to people objecting. The objection is to method of the objection (violence), and to the hiding behind that threat to justify the prohibition of that objection.
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Neither had I. But as the article pointed out, Shapiro wrote an article advocating for the same extremeist facist policy of forced removal that Kahane advocated for. I'm pretty sure he didn't think it up himself.

Lol, so they have a similar opinion so that makes Ben an avid admirer of the guy?

Well the Alt-Right hates Ben Shapiro, so I guess that makes you an admirer of the Alt-Right?
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Where's the evidence that it's "great speech," BD? Apparently, in your mind 'gish gallop' is the same thing as a great speech.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said now does it? You are getting your threads confused. I said...

There is no evidence he has any admiration for the man mentioned. Ben Shapiro, has similar views on forced relocation, so in Moots mind it's the same thing.

Which has nothing to do with any speech now does it?
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

Neither had I. But as the article pointed out, Shapiro wrote an article advocating for the same extremeist facist policy of forced removal that Kahane advocated for. I'm pretty sure he didn't think it up himself.

Better yet

Ben Shapiro hates the Alt-Right and thinks Trump is flaming bag of dog feces (I believe those were his words in one Q and A) so therefore since you agree you must be an avid admirer of Ben Shapiro and therefore by your own logic a fascist
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

So which is it Moot? Ben Shapiro and the Alt-Right hate each other and by leftist logic (as evidenced in the Nazi vs Antifa debate) you have to support one because for some reason condemning both is not allowed. Are you a Ben Shapiro supporter or Alt-Right supporter?
 
Re: Berkeley Police release mugshots of Ben Shapiro protesters

I do not support violence in the service of political expression. I do not support the suppression of speech or ideas in public debate. Therefore I acknowledge and support the need for security at such events as Shapiro's address on the Berkeley campus. However I also have a problem with what went down at Berkeley recently.

What constitutes a "banned weapon" in Berkeley these day? From what I have read the banned weapons were signs or components of signs which the authorities deemed could potentially be used as weapons but in fact were never used as such by those who were arrested. Why arrest them straight off? Give them the option to surrender the dangerous material or allow them to leave the protest area with their materials in hand. If they refuse either of these options then arrest them. This was not done. The area was well controlled with concrete barricades, metal detectors at access points and physical searches of protestors on-going both at the access points and in the crowd by security personnel. It seems that the authorities wanted to make a point that violence would not be tolerated, but when there was in fact very little violence demonstrated, they over-reacted. I also think many media reports have been disingenuous about these so-called banned weapons and about the level of violence which actually occurred on September 14th at Berkeley. This was not a riot, it was a noisy but peaceful protest.

In the case of the lone battery arrest, the person is alleged to have spat at a police officer in heavy riot gear, armed with a shield, protective clothing, truncheon and, for the first time in twenty years, possibly a pepper-spray dispenser. Disgusting and disrespectful - yes, but battery? No. These seem to be trumped-up charges, designed to maintain a sense of artificial alarm in order to sell a narrative of apprehended insurrection at Berkeley, for political propaganda purposes. If protesters use violence then arrest, prosecute and try them. If they bring dangerous materials to the protest area, then confiscate it at the access points or send them away, but unless the protestor explicitly threatens to or uses the materials violently, then do not arrest them and publicly post their mugshots.

I know that the police are often in a "damned if they do and damned if they don't" situation during public protests but more common sense and less draconian responses would seem sensible if little or no violence is actually unfolding.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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