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Bernie Sanders rolls out Medicare-for-All plan

FieldTheorist said:
The point of this legislation is to get it out there and make it a part of the public discussion. And that's good, because Americans need to understand that they are the only first-world country (which is worse since we are the wealthiest of the first-world country) that does not automatically give it's citizens healthcare as a right. It's also worth noting that it costs society less to insure everyone through a public option than it does to use this private system nightmare that we currently are using.
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The reason why US HC costs are so high is a complex issue and wont be solved by any one program. There needs to be a comprehensive reform in many areas like insurance liabilities, FDA market manipulation for drug costs via collusion with big phrama, government subsidies that drive up costs, over prescription by doctors, too frequent and unnecessary medical tests and procedures, over staffing, etc.
 
vegas giants said:
Yeah he needs a pay cut
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Maybe he will offer you the same deal that mine does - a 25% discount for cash at time of service. That alone would have saved you $100 and cut his pay by 25%. ;)
 
FieldTheorist said:
The point of this legislation is to get it out there and make it a part of the public discussion. And that's good, because Americans need to understand that they are the only first-world country (which is worse since we are the wealthiest of the first-world country) that does not automatically give it's citizens healthcare as a right. It's also worth noting that it costs society less to insure everyone through a public option than it does to use this private system nightmare that we currently are using.
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As Hillary Clinton pointed out in the primaries there is something key that you are overlooking. Most people who are not already covered by the government are covered by the company they work for. So this turns into a HUGE tax break for corporations and another thing that raises taxes on individuals.

Has Sanders told us who pays for this?
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Maybe he will offer you the same deal that mine does - a 25% discount for cash at time of service. That alone would have saved you $100 and cut his pay by 25%. ;)
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Don't need it. I have great insurance
 
ttwtt78640 said:
They pay the same as you do - 1.45% (half of that 2.9%) is paid by the employer.
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Good. When we get Medicare for all the cost of healthcare will come down dramatically.
 
PoS said:
The reason why US HC costs are so high is a complex issue and wont be solved by any one program. There needs to be a comprehensive reform in many areas like insurance liabilities, FDA market manipulation for drug costs via collusion with big phrama, government subsidies that drive up costs, over prescription by doctors, too frequent and unnecessary medical tests and procedures, over staffing, etc.
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I don't disagree on a lot of that, but an analogy is in order. Cancer is a complicated disease caused by many things; however, it's better not to smoke. Likewise, healthcare costs are complicated and caused by a lot of things; however, it's cheaper to have universal public healthcare. So don't smoke and have medicare-for-all/single-payer systems.
 
Mycroft said:
It has no chance of passing.

Just look at how its $1.38 TRILLION cost will be paid for.

https://live-berniesanders-com.pantheonsite.io/issues/medicare-for-all/

This bill is nothing but an attention-getter.
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1.38 trillion is bunk. it is going to cost double that.
bernies numbers are based on fantasy land.

then again this will be means tested with the bulk of the taxes falling on working people.
you will then have to pay more out of pocket for additional insurance to cover what the government doesn't.
 
washunut said:
As Hillary Clinton pointed out in the primaries there is something key that you are overlooking. Most people who are not already covered by the government are covered by the company they work for. So this turns into a HUGE tax break for corporations and another thing that raises taxes on individuals.

Has Sanders told us who pays for this?
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Which is going to be off-set by new tax revenues. I haven't read the details of the current medicare-for-all legislation, so I don't know what the exact origin of this tax money will be. It will likely come from Wall Street speculation, corporate tax increases, and/or possibly a new pay-roll-like tax like social security. During the primary when Bernie laid out his medicare-for-all plan then, I think it saved the average American household 2 to 5 grand a year. (Since that household will no longer pay for insurance, co-pays, etc.)
 
vegas giants said:
Good. When we get Medicare for all the cost of healthcare will come down dramatically.
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That is not how reality works. That payroll tax is now paid for about 45 years before you even become eligible for Medicare (if you live that long). Obviously, if we start giving Medicare to one year olds (and up) then the same tax rate can't remain that worked when we only gave it to 65 year olds (and up).
 
FieldTheorist said:
I don't disagree on a lot of that, but an analogy is in order. Cancer is a complicated disease caused by many things; however, it's better not to smoke. Likewise, healthcare costs are complicated and caused by a lot of things; however, it's cheaper to have universal public healthcare. So don't smoke and have medicare-for-all/single-payer systems.
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I would disagree that universal HC will somehow solve most of the problems of high costs. The issue is systemic and a top down reform needs to be put in place before a comprehensive do it all program is set up, otherwise it will either end up increasing costs and complexity instead.
 
vegas giants said:
Because healthcare costs are too high in this country. I care about others. I am like that
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No, you don't, you just said that you had great insurance and still wanted your doctor to take a pay cut.
 
apdst said:
The Democrats are going full-communist. They aren't even trying to hide it, anymore.
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Full communist, hahaha.

What does that make Canada who has had universal healthcare for decades?
 
I'll just drop this here...

US_spends_much_more_on_health_than_what_might_be_expected_1_slideshow.jpg


For everyone screaming, "Who's gonna pay?!?!?!?"

and this...

Pharmaceuticals-1.jpg


and finally...

imrs.php
 
vegas giants said:
Denmark, Sweden, finland, Holland....etc
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Really? They have 330 + million people, 50 sovereign states, and 50 different costs of livings? They have a 4 trillion dollar budget and almost 19 trillion dollar GDP? Seems you have a different definition of success than most peope
 
Winston said:
I'll just drop this here...

US_spends_much_more_on_health_than_what_might_be_expected_1_slideshow.jpg


For everyone screaming, "Who's gonna pay?!?!?!?"

and this...

Pharmaceuticals-1.jpg


and finally...

imrs.php
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OMG, posting charts out of context is what the left does when it wants to promote socialism. How do you know that other countries are measuring the same things in their reports? With freedom comes responsibilities and that is a foreign concept to people like you. This country has freedom of choice meaning you can eat what you want, when you want, smoke, drink, do drugs, drive wherever you want but of course none of that human behavior affects those percentages does it?

Absolutely stunning how the left is always right, never makes a mistake, and always spends someone else's money well
 
Nickyjo said:
Let me get this straight... My contracting an incurable disease was irresponsible on my part, product of a poor personal choice? Have to assume we are missing one another'se points. As to successful socialist countries, there are none, just as there are no successful capitalist countries... What succeeds is a mixture of the two. No one succeeds based on their own ability alone. Everyone is subsidized one way or another. Has been the rule in the developed wold for two generations or more.
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So we need socialized medicine talking over 1/7 of the US economy because some get a incurable disease? What you fail to recognize is that we have a 20 trillion dollar debt today and trillions more in unfunded liabilities called Medicare and SS but that is ok for you because you are too young to feel it. Get on Medicare and see just how great it is.

I guess success is whatever you want it to be but I believe it is a system that allows you to be as successful as you are capable of being, Individual wealth creation has created the greatest economy on the face of the earth yet you want to change it probably because of your inability to compete. You completely ignore state and local responsibility on social issues and always look to a one size fits all federal program ignoring that they always cost more than intended, do less than intended, never solves a problem and never goes away.
 
Conservative said:
OMG, posting charts out of context is what the left does when it wants to promote socialism. How do you know that other countries are measuring the same things in their reports? With freedom comes responsibilities and that is a foreign concept to people like you. This country has freedom of choice meaning you can eat what you want, when you want, smoke, drink, do drugs, drive wherever you want but of course none of that human behavior affects those percentages does it?

Absolutely stunning how the left is always right, never makes a mistake, and always spends someone else's money well
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Populists and propaganda rely on false conclusions from simplification. That is because most people have neither the professional specialization nor the time to work through complex topics. That is par for the course for socialists and fascism alike.
 
upsideguy said:
Um, to follow that logic through, then America is the only major non-communist country in the world. You and I know that would be a ridiculous statement.

More likely, the Dems are showing real leadership by attempting to deliver America from the healthcare and economic dark ages; attempting to abandon a very inefficient system that has lead to the MOST expensive healthcare in the world that delivers comparatively inferior outcomes. Its time for the Cons to look at the facts and see clear to a better way.

Even Trump*s mother country has single payer....
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Winston said:
Full communist, hahaha.

What does that make Canada who has had universal healthcare for decades?
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Do agree with, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?
 
JasperL said:
Anecdote =/= data.



It's always amazing that opponents of "single payer" never bring up the Medicare that grandma and grandpa think does a fine job, and an actual "single payer" system, but the VA, which is government owned facilities, government employees, etc. and a lot like the system in England and NOTHING AT ALL LIKE what is being proposed by those who favor "single payer." What they envision is what grandma gets, for everyone, or something similar, with private hospitals, clinics, doctors, device makers, etc.....
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Without a vibrant private healthcare system to support medicare, where will medicare's money come from?

We are already seeing the medicare reimbursement rates going down and doctors refusing to accept new medicare patients due to this reason, and others, such as the paperwork is abominable to deal with.

Are you prepared to mandate doctors cannot refuse medicare patients?
Force doctors to accept dwindling medicare reimbursements? How many doctors do you think would continue to practice medicine given that legislation / regulation?

I don't think that actual medical care is going to be rendered at the point of the government gun.
What good is an empty promise of healthcare insurance coverage when you can't get actual healthcare care with it?

No surprise there. I'm skeptical too, for lots of reasons, and don't think I'll see it before I get on Medicare in a decade or so.
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Winston said:
I'll just drop this here...

US_spends_much_more_on_health_than_what_might_be_expected_1_slideshow.jpg


For everyone screaming, "Who's gonna pay?!?!?!?"

and this...

Pharmaceuticals-1.jpg


and finally...

imrs.php
Click to expand...

- Per capita the public sector pays about, what other rich countries do. The rest is private sector. That is something you might want to contemplate.....
- ...and you might want to reduce the public sector spending....
- ....while spending on medication drives international r&d for Americans and the lower margin countries.
- As to infant mortality? You would have to look at that much more closely to understand, what is going on there. Like with the falling life expectancy of females in certain areas, there can be things going on that have absolutely nothing to do with the macrostructure of healthcare.
 
apdst said:
The Democrats are going full-communist. They aren't even trying to hide it, anymore.
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You mean 'full communist' like every other civilised country on the planet? Friends of the US look on your country's absurd and wasteful healthcare 'system' in sad amazement.
 
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