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Mueller Has Early Draft of Trump Letter Giving Reasons for Firing Comey[W:150]

Cardinal

Cardinal

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

WASHINGTON — The special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, has obtained a letter drafted by President Trump and a top political aide that offered an unvarnished view of Mr. Trump’s thinking in the days before the president fired the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey.
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The letter, drafted in May, was met with opposition from Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel, who believed that its angry, meandering tone was problematic...
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Yeah, I'll bet. I write Truman letters all the time, but I'll be Trump's version of a Truman letter is something to behold.

...according to interviews with a dozen administration officials and others briefed on the matter.
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This the New York Times equivalent of doing donuts on the White House front lawn.

Mr. McGahn’s concerns about Mr. Trump’s letter shows how much he realized that the president’s rationale for firing Mr. Comey might not hold up to scrutiny, and how he and other administration officials sought to build a more defensible public case for his ouster.
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In light of Trump's subsequent behavior and admission to firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation, I'd say Mr. McGahn's concerns were prescient. Also, let's take note of that fact that we now have a solid three demonstrations that the ultimate rationale for firing Comey was a lie. The varnished reason given for firing Comey, which is that he was terribly unfair to Clinton, was so horrendous that nobody believed it. And yet it was the best anybody could come up with, which should say something about how bad Trump's real reason was.

But wait! There's more!

Mr. Trump was back in Washington on Monday, May 8, when copies of the letter were handed out in the Oval Office to senior officials, including Mr. McGahn and Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Trump announced that he had decided to fire Mr. Comey, and read aloud from Mr. Miller’s memo.
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So what, you ask? Well, Pence was in the room, and as was reported by Politico...

In meetings on Capitol Hill and in interviews, Pence has said this week that Trump fired FBI Director James Comey on the recommendation of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

“Let me be very clear that the president’s decision to accept the recommendation of the deputy attorney general and the attorney general to remove Director Comey as the head of the FBI was based solely and exclusively on his commitment to the best interests of the American people and to ensuring that the FBI has the trust and confidence of the people this nation,” Pence told reporters Wednesday.
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In interview, Trump contradicts Pence on Comey - POLITICO

Which means Pence lied, because he received the original draft and therefore the real reason for Trump's decision to fire Comey.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

Yeah, I'll bet. I write Truman letters all the time, but I'll be Trump's version of a Truman letter is something to behold.

This the New York Times equivalent of doing donuts on the White House front lawn.

In light of Trump's subsequent behavior and admission to firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation, I'd say Mr. McGahn's concerns were prescient. Also, let's take note of that fact that we now have a solid three demonstrations that the ultimate rationale for firing Comey was a lie. The varnished reason given for firing Comey, which is that he was terribly unfair to Clinton, was so horrendous that nobody believed it. And yet it was the best anybody could come up with, which should say something about how bad Trump's real reason was.

But wait! There's more!

So what, you ask? Well, Pence was in the room, and as was reported by Politico...

In interview, Trump contradicts Pence on Comey - POLITICO

Which means Pence lied, because he received the original draft and therefore the real reason for Trump's decision to fire Comey.
Click to expand...

Sounds like politics as usual to me...
 
Hmm...reading through this "story" I find this quote buried in it's ninth paragraph most telling:

The New York Times has not seen a copy of Mr. Trump’s letter...
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

Which shows, as usual, the whole "news" article is pure speculation of the most negative sort.

Meanwhile people who keep pushing these narratives wonder what causes those of us they are trying to convince to keep steadfast in opposition. :coffeepap:
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...reading through this "story" I find this quote buried in it's ninth paragraph most telling:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

Which shows, as usual, the whole "news" article is pure speculation of the most negative sort.

Meanwhile people who keep pushing these narratives wonder what causes those of us they are trying to convince to keep steadfast in opposition. :coffeepap:
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If I was a gambling man, I'd bet twenty dollars that the letter was a repeat of the reasons he gave the Russian ambassadors in the Oval Office and to Lester Holt. What makes this significant is that

a)We know the real reason was because Comey wouldn't drop the Russia investigation, because he said so twice on two different occasions, and
b)This would mean that the real reasons given were not post-facto, but were real reflections of his decision process leading up to firing Comey. This would mean premeditation in committing obstruction of justice and therefore a demonstration of mens rea.
 
Cardinal said:
If I was a gambling man, I'd bet twenty dollars that the letter was a repeat of the reasons he gave the Russian ambassadors in the Oval Office and to Lester Holt. What makes this significant is that

a)We know the real reason was because Comey wouldn't drop the Russia investigation, because he said so twice on two different occasions, and
b)This would mean that the real reasons given were not post-facto, but were real reflections of his decision process leading up to firing Comey. This would mean premeditation in committing obstruction of justice and therefore a demonstration of mens rea.
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It doesn't matter what you'd "bet." Your bet is colored by your assumption bias.

The point is that there is nothing here but more speculation based on a small datum "Mueller has copy of draft letter," which is being run with as "next nail in the Trump (insert impeachment cause here)" narrative.

FACTS are what convince rational thinkers, not speculation based on assumption bias.

Give me actual proof of collusion or crimes and you will begin to convince me.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html





Yeah, I'll bet. I write Truman letters all the time, but I'll be Trump's version of a Truman letter is something to behold.



This the New York Times equivalent of doing donuts on the White House front lawn.



In light of Trump's subsequent behavior and admission to firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation, I'd say Mr. McGahn's concerns were prescient. Also, let's take note of that fact that we now have a solid three demonstrations that the ultimate rationale for firing Comey was a lie. The varnished reason given for firing Comey, which is that he was terribly unfair to Clinton, was so horrendous that nobody believed it. And yet it was the best anybody could come up with, which should say something about how bad Trump's real reason was.

But wait! There's more!



So what, you ask? Well, Pence was in the room, and as was reported by Politico...



In interview, Trump contradicts Pence on Comey - POLITICO

Which means Pence lied, because he received the original draft and therefore the real reason for Trump's decision to fire Comey.
Click to expand...
I will need to see the letter before forming an opinion about its contents.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...reading through this "story" I find this quote buried in it's ninth paragraph most telling:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

Which shows, as usual, the whole "news" article is pure speculation of the most negative sort.

Meanwhile people who keep pushing these narratives wonder what causes those of us they are trying to convince to keep steadfast in opposition. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...


But, but, that's good enough for the left.
 
Captain Adverse said:
It doesn't matter what you'd "bet." Your bet is colored by your assumption bias.

The point is that there is nothing but speculation based on a small datum "Mueller has copy of draft letter" which is being run with as "next nail in the Trump (insert impeachment cause here)" narrative.

FACTs are what convince rational thinkers, not speculation based on assumption bias.

Give me actual proof of collusion or crimes and you will begin to convince me.
Click to expand...

This is not about collusion, and it's not about me, so control yourself.

Considering that Trump admitted to both the Russians and Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation, and considering McGahn, the White House counsel, was afraid the rationale wouldn't hold up under scrutiny, do you suppose that his own independently given reasons in the letter are similar to his publicly voiced ones?

Yes, yes, you're much too rational to engage in mental exercises by creating a picture of events based on existing facts, so you can go now.
 
Cardinal said:
This is not about collusion, and it's not about me, so control yourself.
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It is about collusion, because that is what Mueller's investigation was supposed to be about.

However, as I expected all along, it is now no longer solely about collusion but rather whatever from whenever and wherever can be found to impeach Trump.

The speculation in this article is that the "original draft" gave damning reasons that show Trump was trying to hide something, which is why he got rid of Comey.

YOU then made it about YOU when YOU suggested how YOU would bet. :roll:

Cardinal said:
Considering that Trump admitted to both the Russians and Lester Holt that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation, and considering McGahn, the White House counsel, was afraid the rationale wouldn't hold up under scrutiny, do you suppose that his own independently given reasons in the letter are similar to his publicly voiced ones?

Yes, yes, you're much too rational to engage in mental exercises by creating a picture of events based on existing facts, so you can go now.
Click to expand...

Then here you ask a question...and project your own expectations regarding a response. Typical.

I'll follow your last word of advice though; see my tagline. :coffeepap:
 
Captain Adverse said:
It is about collusion, because that is what Mueller's investigation was supposed to be about.

However, as I expected all along, it is now no longer solely about collusion but rather whatever from whenever and wherever can be found to impeach Trump.

The speculation in this article is that the "original draft" gave damning reasons that show Trump was trying to hide something, which is why he got rid of Comey.

YOU then made it about YOU when YOU suggested how YOU would bet. :roll:



Then here you ask a question...and project your own expectations regarding a response. Typical.

I'll follow your last word of advice though; see my tagline. :coffeepap:
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This topic clearly makes you emotional. I won't ask you to participate further.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html





Yeah, I'll bet. I write Truman letters all the time, but I'll be Trump's version of a Truman letter is something to behold.


...according to interviews with a dozen administration officials and others briefed on the matter.
Click to expand...
This the New York Times equivalent of doing donuts on the White House front lawn.



In light of Trump's subsequent behavior and admission to firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation, I'd say Mr. McGahn's concerns were prescient. Also, let's take note of that fact that we now have a solid three demonstrations that the ultimate rationale for firing Comey was a lie. The varnished reason given for firing Comey, which is that he was terribly unfair to Clinton, was so horrendous that nobody believed it. And yet it was the best anybody could come up with, which should say something about how bad Trump's real reason was.

But wait! There's more!



So what, you ask? Well, Pence was in the room, and as was reported by Politico...



In interview, Trump contradicts Pence on Comey - POLITICO

Which means Pence lied, because he received the original draft and therefore the real reason for Trump's decision to fire Comey.
Click to expand...
that visual imagery was classic. thanks for the guffaw
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html





Yeah, I'll bet. I write Truman letters all the time, but I'll be Trump's version of a Truman letter is something to behold.



This the New York Times equivalent of doing donuts on the White House front lawn.



In light of Trump's subsequent behavior and admission to firing Comey for not dropping the Russia investigation, I'd say Mr. McGahn's concerns were prescient. Also, let's take note of that fact that we now have a solid three demonstrations that the ultimate rationale for firing Comey was a lie. The varnished reason given for firing Comey, which is that he was terribly unfair to Clinton, was so horrendous that nobody believed it. And yet it was the best anybody could come up with, which should say something about how bad Trump's real reason was.

But wait! There's more!



So what, you ask? Well, Pence was in the room, and as was reported by Politico...



In interview, Trump contradicts Pence on Comey - POLITICO

Which means Pence lied, because he received the original draft and therefore the real reason for Trump's decision to fire Comey.
Click to expand...

Why exactly does it matter that Comey was fired? Last I checked Comey served at the presidents pleasure. It doesn't matter what Trump said or didn't say, Trump could fire Comey at any time for any reason, and he did.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Hmm...reading through this "story" I find this quote buried in it's ninth paragraph most telling:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html

Which shows, as usual, the whole "news" article is pure speculation of the most negative sort.

Meanwhile people who keep pushing these narratives wonder what causes those of us they are trying to convince to keep steadfast in opposition. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

LOL! What an absurd contention. The people you claim they are trying to convice are impervious to reality and reason.

Nothing, as your posts clearly shoiw, will ever sway their opinion.

Such a transparent conceit.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Why exactly does it matter that Comey was fired? Last I checked Comey served at the presidents pleasure. It doesn't matter what Trump said or didn't say, Trump could fire Comey at any time for any reason, and he did.
Click to expand...

Because his firing amounts to obstruction of justice, as the president himself has openly admitted at least twice. He fired him in order to end the Russia probe.

It matters a great deal what Trump said.

This is really ground level stuff here.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Why exactly does it matter that Comey was fired? Last I checked Comey served at the presidents pleasure. It doesn't matter what Trump said or didn't say, Trump could fire Comey at any time for any reason, and he did.
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Not getting the news in your fallout shelter?

Because if Trump fired him in order to obstruct justice, he could be impeached for obstruction of justice. That Trump has the power to obstruct justice doesn't mean he cannot obstruct justice.

The White House changed their story on why Comey was fired a number of times. Then Trump in an interview claims he was thinking of the Russia investigation when he did it, and he would have fired Comey regardless of all the other reasons they (lied) about prior. Trump and his bungling team, are their own worst enemy.

He may not be pursued on obstruction with it, maybe so, maybe not. It's still a startling example of the stupidity of the current administration.
If they can't fire someone correctly, who really thinks they can govern well considering it's orders of magnitude more complex?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Because his firing amounts to obstruction of justice, as the president himself has openly admitted at least twice. He fired him in order to end the Russia probe.

It matters a great deal what Trump said.

This is really ground level stuff here.
Click to expand...

Trump CAN'T obstruct justice. He IS the investigators boss and for all intents and purposes the LEAD investigator and can shut down any investigation at any time for any reason without recourse. The only people who can bring "charges" against Trump are the Congress and ONLY Congress. That's IT. Why people don't understand this I don't know but its seems to me a simple enough concept.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Why exactly does it matter that Comey was fired? Last I checked Comey served at the presidents pleasure. It doesn't matter what Trump said or didn't say, Trump could fire Comey at any time for any reason, and he did.
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you are likely aware that in at-will states the employee can be fired for almost any reason - or no reason - without the employer having to establish "just cause" for that termination

this is similar. the presidential appointees serve at the pleasure of the president

but in those at-will employment states, if the employee is terminated by the employer for being a member of a protected class [groups include men and women on the basis of sex; any group which shares a common race, religion, color, or national origin; people over 40; and people with physical or mental handicaps], terminating them for such class membership is unlawful

similarly, if tRump fired Comey because Comey refused to tell the president that the president was not under investigation in the russia affair, then tRump abused his presidential authority, which is unlawful

thus far, it has been speculated, but not confirmed, that was the reason the white house attorney prevented tRump's termination letter from being issued to Comey
 
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justabubba said:
you are likely aware that in at-will states the employee can be fired for almost any reason - or no reason - without the employer having to establish "just cause" for that termination

this is similar. the presidential appointees serve at the pleasure of the president

but in those at-will employment states, if the employee is terminated by the employer for being a member of a protected class [groups include men and women on the basis of sex; any group which shares a common race, religion, color, or national origin; people over 40; and people with physical or mental handicaps], terminating them for such class membership is unlawful

similarly, if tRump fired Comey because Comey refused to tell the president that the president was not under investigation i the russia affair, then tRump abused his presidential authority, which is unlawful

thus far, it has been speculated, but not confirmed, that was the reason the white house attorney prevented tRump's termination letter from being issued to Comey
Click to expand...

The only body that can hold Trump accountable is congress that is it. The president has the power to remove pretty much anyone in the executive branch at any time he so chooses for any reason he so chooses.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Trump CAN'T obstruct justice. He IS the investigators boss and for all intents and purposes the LEAD investigator and can shut down any investigation at any time for any reason without recourse. The only people who can bring "charges" against Trump are the Congress and ONLY Congress. That's IT. Why people don't understand this I don't know but its seems to me a simple enough concept.
Click to expand...

Of course he can. To insist that he can't is to admit to being utterly delusional. He can fire the FBI director anytime he wants, but not for an illegal purpose.

You seem awfully confused about this.
 
PirateMk1 said:
The only body that can hold Trump accountable is congress that is it. The president has the power to remove pretty much anyone in the executive branch at any time he so chooses for any reason he so chooses.
Click to expand...

pretty much - except for the exceptions, such as abuse of presidential authority

which is why i compared it to the near-absolute authority for an employer to terminate an employee - there are rare exceptions
 
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