Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police officer

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

prometeus said:

In such cases it is better to with what IS known then. Also keeping in mind that the trucker was a victim there is little to support suspicion by the cop.
Moreover, since a warrant can be so easily obtained the overreach was just that, totally unjustified and an abuse of power.

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I agree that a warrant should have been sought, but we do not know why the officer had the suspicion that he had to request the blood test.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Utility Man said:

There is video at the link above, below is a short YouTube clip.



Guess that is why they say never talk to the police.

Seems as though the entire hospital staff would have been better off remaining silent as they stood by and just watched that POS copper huff and puff his way around the ER wondering why no one will talk with him.

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She resisted. They also say don't get in a fight with the cops.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Lord Tammerlain said:

I agree that a warrant should have been sought, but we do not know why the officer had the suspicion that he had to request the blood test.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...her-for-doing-her-job/?utm_term=.8aaa0b2b46e9

“So why don’t we just write a search warrant,” the officer wearing the body camera says to Payne.

“They don’t have PC [probable cause],” Payne responds, using the abbreviation for probable cause, which police must have to get a warrant for search and seizure. He adds that he plans to arrest the nurse if she doesn’t allow him to draw blood. “I’ve never gone this far,” he says.

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So the guy they brought in was not the suspect, was in a coma, and the police had no probable cause, which is why they could not get a warrant.

After several minutes, Wubbels shows Payne and the other officer a printout of the hospital’s policy on obtaining blood samples from patients. With her supervisor on speakerphone, she calmly tells them they can’t proceed unless they have a warrant or patient consent, or if the patient is under arrest.

“The patient can’t consent, he’s told me repeatedly that he doesn’t have a warrant, and the patient is not under arrest,” she says. “So I’m just trying to do what I’m supposed to do, that’s all.”

“So I take it without those in place, I’m not going to get blood,” Payne says.

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So to draw blood for the police, they need
A) A warrant
B) Consent of the patient
or
C) The patient is under arrest.

None of which happened in this case, the cops didn't even have probable cause to obtain a warrant.

In Thursday’s news conference, Wubbels’s attorney Karra Porter said that Payne believed he was authorized to collect the blood under “implied consent,” according to the Tribune. But Porter said “implied consent” law changed in Utah a decade ago. And in 2016, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that warrantless blood tests were illegal. Porter called Wubbels’s arrest unlawful.

“The law is well-established. And it’s not what we were hearing in the video,” she said. “I don’t know what was driving this situation.”

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Cops had no leg to stand on in this case. This was an officer pissed that he couldn't get his way, and abused his power. But as in most cases of police overreach, nothing really became of the officer. He was removed from the blood draw, but remains on active duty.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Tettsuo said:

Whether or not he had the legal right to get a blood sample does not explain why he's arresting the nurse.

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It's called obstruction. It's a crime.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

apdst said:

It's called obstruction. It's a crime.

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Abiding ones rights is not a crime. The officer had no cause for the blood work to be done forcibly. The officer was over the line and outside the realms of the law.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...her-for-doing-her-job/?utm_term=.8aaa0b2b46e9



So the guy they brought in was not the suspect, was in a coma, and the police had no probable cause, which is why they could not get a warrant.



So to draw blood for the police, they need
A) A warrant
B) Consent of the patient
or
C) The patient is under arrest.

None of which happened in this case, the cops didn't even have probable cause to obtain a warrant.



Cops had no leg to stand on in this case. This was an officer pissed that he couldn't get his way, and abused his power. But as in most cases of police overreach, nothing really became of the officer. He was removed from the blood draw, but remains on active duty.

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I believe she stated they had an agreement with the police on this specific issue on blood draws. So its likely a contractual matter to make sure both sides are within their legal obligations. The cop should have known he was wrong just from that simple statement. The officer was dead wrong, his CO should put his stupid ass on bike duty, allow him to grow some humility.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

OpportunityCost said:

I believe she stated they had an agreement with the police on this specific issue on blood draws. So its likely a contractual matter to make sure both sides are within their legal obligations. The cop should have known he was wrong just from that simple statement. The officer was dead wrong, his CO should put his stupid ass on bike duty, allow him to grow some humility.

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Yeah, but they won't. This happened last month or something of the sort, and other than being taken off blood draw, nothing happened to the offending officer. Maybe now that this story is getting national attention something will happen.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

prometeus said:

No according the SCOTUS in a decision that came last year. Moreover the What could have been the reasonable grounds in this case?

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If the truck driver is a commercial motor vehicle operator and he was involved in an accident while operating a commercial motor vehicle, then the officer doesn't need a warrant because Federal regulations make blood and urine samples mandatory.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

Abiding ones rights is not a crime. The officer had no cause for the blood work to be done forcibly. The officer was over the line and outside the realms of the law.

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She resisted a lawful order, then she resisted arrest. She isn't a officer of the court and she doesn't have the autthority to resist.

She should have surrendered the blood sample and if it was illegal, the patient's lawyer could have fought it later.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

apdst said:

If the truck driver is a commercial motor vehicle operator and he was involved in an accident while operating a commercial motor vehicle, then the officer doesn't need a warrant because Federal regulations make blood and urine samples mandatory.

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Which he never stated. If he had something to contravene the agreement between the hospital and the PD, he was obligated to give that information, not try to bully his way into it.

This chart from the FMCSA doesn't agree with your assessment, however.
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulatio...ests-are-required-and-when-does-testing-occur

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

apdst said:

She resisted a lawful order,

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It wasn't a lawful order. The cop had no power of law behind him.

apdst said:

then she resisted arrest.

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No she didn't. She claimed the officer had assaulted and hurt her, which is true. The cop had no grounds for arrest and launched an assault, but she went with him to the car and to the police station without fighting the cop. She was released with no charge because.....she committed no crime.

apdst said:

She should have surrendered the blood sample and if it was illegal, the patient's lawyer could have fought it later.

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She wasn't allowed to surrender the blood sample, it is against the law to do so and hospital policy. Cops should have known this, not gone full Eric Cartman.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

MaggieD said:

The patient WAS a suspect in a crime. He HAD the accident while fleeing the cops. Does anyone not see stupid here?

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So? Cop gets a court order and then the hospital staff can legally draw his blood. Do you not know that if they violated thee patient's rights, a judge would end up dismissing the case?

lol...the nurse actually helped prevent the case from being dismissed.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

calamity said:

So? Cop gets a court order and then the hospital staff can legally draw his blood. Do you not know that if they violated thee patient's rights, a judge would end up dismissing the case?

lol...the nurse actually helped prevent the case from being dismissed.

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I don't think there was a case to protect. The driver wasn't the suspect. The police had no probable cause that he had done anything wrong.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

apdst said:

She resisted a lawful order, then she resisted arrest. She isn't a officer of the court and she doesn't have the autthority to resist.

She should have surrendered the blood sample and if it was illegal, the patient's lawyer could have fought it later.

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It was not a lawful order.

She did resist arrest, which was a mistake.

She saved the cop's ass by not violating the patient's rights, because his lawyer would have eaten the police alive and had that tainted evidence thrown out.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

I don't think there was a case to protect. The driver wasn't the suspect. The police had no probable cause that he had done anything wrong.

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That's even worse.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

I don't think there was a case to protect. The driver wasn't the suspect. The police had no probable cause that he had done anything wrong.

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The behavior seen is why lawsuits happen. Not punishing the officer is not going to work out in the long run for that PD, that idiot is going to screw up again, count on it.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

OpportunityCost said:

The behavior seen is why lawsuits happen. Not punishing the officer is not going to work out in the long run for that PD, that idiot is going to screw up again, count on it.

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And it's how police departments lose faith and confidence with the community they are to protect. It does not behoove them to protect bad cops.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

I think I see ( if I read the article correctly) where the disconnect may have occurred regarding the blood testing requirement, but not the actions that happened afterwards.

If the patient was indeed a commercial truck driver on duty, then the driver is subject to Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration ( FMCSA) 49 CFR Part 382 rules for Controlled Substances and Alcohol Use and Testing....specifically, § 382.303 .

Now here is the problem; It does NOT differentiate between a driver AT fault, and a driver NOT at fault....the law is pretty ambiguous in that respect....It simply states that a Post accident drug and alcohol screening must be done. All post accident alcohol testing must be done within 2 hours.

§ 382.305

(g)(1) The results of a breath or blood
test for the use of alcohol, conducted
by Federal, State, or local officials
having independent authority for the
test, shall be considered to meet the requirements of this section, provided
such tests conform to the applicable
Federal, State or local alcohol testing
requirements, and that the results of
the tests are obtained by the employer.
(2) The results of a urine test for the
use of controlled substances, conducted
by Federal, State, or local officials
having independent authority for the
test, shall be considered to meet the requirements of this section, provided
such tests conform to the applicable
Federal, State or local controlled substances testing requirements, and that
the results of the tests are obtained by
the employer.

The above bolded section also makes things a bit more confusing......The FMCSA states that local authorities can have the blood draw done....as long as its in compliance with all other relevant local laws. t would appear that this cop really had no clue what was legal in his particular locale, and then he doubled down on the stupid and took it out on the nurse.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

And it's how police departments lose faith and confidence with the community they are to protect. It does not behoove them to protect bad cops.

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Unfortunately, this community is losing faith in the police department. The County Sheriff recently resigned in protest over how heavy handed the police department has become.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

apdst said:

If the truck driver is a commercial motor vehicle operator and he was involved in an accident while operating a commercial motor vehicle, then the officer doesn't need a warrant because Federal regulations make blood and urine samples mandatory.

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False.

In Thursday’s news conference, Wubbels’s attorney Karra Porter said that Payne believed he was authorized to collect the blood under “implied consent,” according to the Tribune. But Porter said “implied consent” law changed in Utah a decade ago. And in 2016, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that warrantless blood tests were illegal. Porter called Wubbels’s arrest unlawful.

“The law is well-established..."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...her-for-doing-her-job/?utm_term=.c88e148cd3f1

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Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

According to the coverage of the arrest, Payne [the arresting officer] said that he wanted to draw blood from Gray to check for drugs in order to "protect" him in some fashion, not to punish him, and that he was ordered to go collect his blood by police in Logan. It is not made clear in any coverage what exactly the police would protecting him from by drawing his blood without his consent while he was unconscious. Payne also said it was his watch commander, Lt. James Tracy, who told him to arrest Wubbels if she refused to draw blood.

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If Payne is telling the truth (highly unlikely) then his commander, Lt. James Tracy should be fired, too.

It looks like it's the Logan police department that needs training, not the Salt Lake police.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Moot said:

If Payne is telling the truth (highly unlikely) then his commander, Lt. James Tracy should be fired, too.

It looks like it's the Logan police department that needs training, not the Salt Lake police.

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They looked fat and out of shape to begin with except for the one cop.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

ludin said:

No the truck driver was not suspected in a crime nor was the truck driver under arrest nor what the truck driver fleeing the cops.

the guy who hit the truck driver was.

this nurse was 100% in compliance with the agreement.

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At some point, we're going to have to stop quoting this. I had too, then realized that two posts down from that (#8), Maggie acknowledged that she was wrong. I had deleted her quote from my post then since it was corrected.

Instead, we should focus on the arguments claiming that the officer made a lawful order and the nurse should have obeyed it. Because that's pure bunk.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

At some point, we're going to have to stop quoting this. I had too, then realized that two posts down from that (#8), Maggie acknowledged that she was wrong. I had deleted her quote from my post then since it was corrected.

Instead, we should focus on the arguments claiming that the officer made a lawful order and the nurse should have obeyed it. Because that's pure bunk.

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i deleted it after i read further.

yep i agree. it is bunk and that police department is in huge trouble.

Re: Utah nurse says videos show she was unlawfully arrested, assaulted by police offi

Ikari said:

I don't think there was a case to protect. The driver wasn't the suspect. The police had no probable cause that he had done anything wrong.

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When CDL drivers are involved, probable cause isn't required. Even in not at fault accidents, drivers are subject to drug screens and negative CSA scores.