• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

ACLU challenges Trump administration’s transgender military ban

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
106,519
Reaction score
98,201
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
My guess is the military would be thrilled to pieces if the lawsuit ended up stopping the lgbt ban. With the actual operations and combat issues the military is facing, I really doubt they need this **** on their plate.

Oh, and of course the lgbt ban is uncalled for, cruel, bigoted, vindictive and only created to annoy people.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit Monday challenging the Trump administration’s controversial ban on transgender people enlisting, receiving Armed Forces medical care for sex reassignment surgeries, and possibly continuing to serve.

The suit, filed in federal court in Maryland on behalf of six active-duty military members, argues that the ban is unconstitutional because it discriminates against transgender people and treats them unequally.


“It’s such an egregious attempt to target transgender individuals who have devoted their careers and lives to the United States,” said Chase Strangio, a staff attorney for the ACLU. “The president claims in tweets transgender service costs money and military readiness. The reality is the Department of Defense concluded after years of study that is baseless.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fb8ffc-8c09-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html
 
ACLU challenges Trump administration’s transgender military ban


By Justin Jouvenal August 28, 2017

The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit Monday challenging the Trump administration’s controversial ban on transgender people enlisting, receiving Armed Forces medical care for sex reassignment surgeries, and possibly continuing to serve. The suit, filed in federal court in Maryland on behalf of six active-duty military members, argues that the ban is unconstitutional because it discriminates against transgender people and treats them unequally. “It’s such an egregious attempt to target transgender individuals who have devoted their careers and lives to the United States,” said Chase Strangio, a staff attorney for the ACLU. “The president claims in tweets transgender service costs money and military readiness. The reality is the Department of Defense concluded after years of study that is baseless.” A Department of Defense spokesman said the Pentagon was aware of the lawsuit, but referred all questions to the Department of Justice. “We are examining the claims in this lawsuit and conferring within the Government,” the Justice Department wrote in a statement. “After consultation with my Generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States Government will not accept or allow Transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. Military,” Trump wrote in the tweets. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.”

The decision was cheered by many religious conservatives but angered LGBT activists, liberals and some in Trump’s own party, such as Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who complained about the president rolling out a major policy on Twitter and possibly forcing people out of the military who were otherwise qualified. The ban reversed an Obama administration decision to allow transgender people to serve openly. The armed forces were set to begin enlisting transgender people July 1, but Defense Secretary Jim Mattis delayed that move, citing a need for more study. Before the policy change by the Obama administration, the Pentagon had concluded that there was no basis for the military to exclude transgender people, as long as they could meet the same fitness requirements as other service members. The review examined medical care, military readiness and other factors. There is no official tally of transgender military members, and estimates have varied widely. One recent study by Rand Corp. put the figure on active duty at about 2,500, while another from the Williams Institute at UCLA Law School estimated that there were 15,500 on active duty, in the National Guard and in the reserve.The lawsuit was filed just days after Trump formally ordered the Pentagon to ban the recruitment of openly transgender people and to determine whether those already serving should be allowed to remain.

In a memorandum issued during the Obama administration, the Pentagon could find no basis for excluding transgender individuals from the military as long as they met the physical/fitness requirements.


Related: ACLU Files Lawsuit Challenging Trump’s Transgender Service Member Ban | American Civil Liberties Union

Stone v. Trump - Complaint | American Civil Liberties Union
 
I just read the article

One honest question, is there an actual ban? As in an actual written policy change (like an EO) or just Trump Tweets regarding the ban.
 
Courts tend to give the military a lot of leeway on decisions like this. Even just saying "there's logistical issues we don't want to deal with" would likely pass. Example: gender integration on nuclear submarines has been essentially nil because unlike a surface vessel, there simply isn't room for separated facilities on a sub.

Even a half-assed reasoning for a transgender ban will probably have the courts letting the military do what it says it needs to do.
 
Should be interesting. I am 100% opposed to kicking out trans service members who are already in. Not only is it unfair to them but it doesn't make sense financially or from a force readiness perspective. It will cost a hell of a lot more to replace them than to keep them, even including any medical requirements.

As for allowing new trans personnel to enlist, I think it is ok to ban people who require ongoing medical treatment (for anything) to enlist. If they don't require medical treatment then let them enlist. And not all trans people require ongoing medical treatment.
 
I just read the article

One honest question, is there an actual ban? As in an actual written policy change (like an EO) or just Trump Tweets regarding the ban.

That's not a hundred percent clear, actually. He signed a directive making it official on Friday, but then left a certain amount of discretion to Mattis.
 
That's not a hundred percent clear, actually. He signed a directive making it official on Friday, but then left a certain amount of discretion to Mattis.

details are murky but Its supposed to go into effect by feb 2018 and i hope it never does but its already screwing people over, currently enlisted people and west point grads etc.
 
I'm for whatever the majority of people in the military want. If they think it's fine to have trans serve, then I'm fine with it. If they think it's a problem and don't want it, I'm against it.

simple as that.
 
I have zero experience in having to work with trans ... but if one is saving my life, what's the big deal?
 
The ACLU will lose this one, unless they can find a judge to make an unconstitutional ruling.
 
Transgender have never been able to enlist in the US military. While it is true that President Obama, on his way out changed the policy, the enlistment wasn't supposed to be open to them until July 2017. The best rules or laws that you can pass are those that take effect after you are gone but get you the praise now. Those transgender actively serving now are the ones that came out after the rule change.

Transgender servicemembers have been able to serve openly in the military since last year, when former Defense Secretary Ash Carter ended the ban, declaring it the right thing to do. Since Oct. 1, transgender troops have been able to receive medical care and start formally changing their gender identifications in the Pentagon’s personnel system.

But Carter also gave the services until July 1 to develop policies to allow people already identifying as transgender to newly join the military, if they meet physical, medical and other standards, and have been stable in their identified genders for 18 months. The military chiefs had said they needed time to study the issue and its effects on the readiness of the force before taking that step.

Officials said Friday that the chiefs believe the extra half-year would give the four military services time to gauge if currently serving transgender troops are facing problems and what necessary changes the military bases might have to make.

Military chiefs want transgender enlistment rule to be delayed
 
That's not a hundred percent clear, actually. He signed a directive making it official on Friday, but then left a certain amount of discretion to Mattis.

As I understand it, Mattis has discretion over trans service members currently serving. The outright ban affects trans wishing to enlist in any of the military services.
 
I'm for whatever the majority of people in the military want. If they think it's fine to have trans serve, then I'm fine with it. If they think it's a problem and don't want it, I'm against it.

simple as that.

The military isn't a democracy. Grunts don't get to vote on what they like.
 
My guess is the military would be thrilled to pieces if the lawsuit ended up stopping the lgbt ban. With the actual operations and combat issues the military is facing, I really doubt they need this **** on their plate.

Oh, and of course the lgbt ban is uncalled for, cruel, bigoted, vindictive and only created to annoy people.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...fb8ffc-8c09-11e7-8df5-c2e5cf46c1e2_story.html
It was nice of Trump to tweet out that he was doing this before the military actually could do it, so that the ACLU had time to prepare to counter it when he actually did it.
 
Back
Top Bottom