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Anarchists Storm Rally At Berkeley

What a ridiculous and hyperbolic question. The mere ability to speak out against Antifa without fear of legal repurcussions is proof that free speech is alive in America, although the number of incidents where American citizens have physically attacked each other over opinions and words suggests that it is not well.
 
Phys251 said:
Good, you acknowledge that Antifa are anarchists. Baby steps.

For the record, I condemn any form of political violence, including Antifa's. They're playing with fire--a Reichstag fire.
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omfg someone read history yaaaaaay though I doubt most will understand the reichstag fire or the events leading up to it or how being violent against nazis only helped them instead of hurt them.
 
beerftw said:
omfg someone read history yaaaaaay though I doubt most will understand the reichstag fire or the events leading up to it or how being violent against nazis only helped them instead of hurt them.
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The real danger comes from Nazi sympathizers. I saw a Reuters/Ipsos poll recently that shows more than half of Americans want to preserve Confederate monuments. I don't know that I would call Antifa anarchists, they aren't advocating dissolution of the state, which is the first step toward anarchy from where we are now. They aren't attacking free speech, but those speakers are collateral damage.

Petro Poroshenko keeps around a statue of Catherine the Great in Odessa like Putin keeps a statue of Lenin in St. Petersburg.

As far as I can see, Lenin was not a racist, he was a politician. On the other hand, Catherine the Great slaughtered with impunity. The difference between a compelling politician and the Empress is that one has absolute power, and the other gains power gradually, though he is at risk of losing influence at any given moment. The Empress and the Dictator never risk losing some power - they keep it all or lose it all. Maybe Socialists and Fascists have a common enemy in anarchists.

These Antifa protesters are empowering the fascist right by chipping away at the number of people who would rather keep their civil liberties than enforce protections, or rather keep their privacy than be surveilled for their own protection. How long will Trump tolerate it?
 
Celebrity said:
The real danger comes from Nazi sympathizers. I saw a Reuters/Ipsos poll recently that shows more than half of Americans want to preserve Confederate monuments. [/B]

Petro Poroshenko keeps around a statue of Catherine the Great in Odessa like Putin keeps a statue of Lenin in St. Petersburg.

As far as I can see, Lenin was not a racist, he was a politician. On the other hand, Catherine the Great slaughtered with impunity. The difference between a compelling politician and the Empress is that one has absolute power, and the other gains power gradually, though he is at risk of losing influence at any given moment. The Empress and the Dictator never risk losing some power - they keep it all or lose it all. Maybe Socialists and Fascists have a common enemy in anarchists.

These Antifa protesters are empowering the fascist right by chipping away at the number of people who would rather keep their civil liberties than enforce protections, or rather keep their privacy than be surveilled for their own protection. How long will Trump tolerate it?
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Umm you must be willingly ignorant, most antifa groups call for the ending of the state and govt, and second they are attacking free speech, they are attacking any speakers who do not agree with them, they are literally attacking free speach, if you can not see this you must be blind or ignorant or so partisanly biased that you choose not to see it.
 
beerftw said:
Umm you must be willingly ignorant, most antifa groups call for the ending of the state and govt, and second they are attacking free speech, they are attacking any speakers who do not agree with them, they are literally attacking free speach, if you can not see this you must be blind or ignorant or so partisanly biased that you choose not to see it.
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Nope, I've just never been to an event where antifa showed up. I searched on Google for more information about Antifa, and I couldn't find anything about dissolution of the state. I do see that they are anti government. I take it that means that they don't like big government, like Libertarians, but unlike libertarians they engage in terrorist activities, threats, and or violent behavior.

Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise - BBC News
 
Celebrity said:
Nope, I've just never been to an event where antifa showed up. I searched on Google for more information about Antifa, and I couldn't find anything about dissolution of the state. I do see that they are anti government. I take it that means that they don't like big government, like Libertarians, but unlike libertarians they engage in terrorist activities, threats, and or violent behavior.

Antifa: Left-wing militants on the rise - BBC News
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Um anti govt is for dissolution of the state, dissolution means to end, to end a partnership etc, and antifa is anti govt wanting an end to the current govt, hence it fits that definition quite nice.

And yes they do engage in terrorist activities, which is why I fail to understand why some on the left favor them and protect them, they are a drag on their movements, and more advantage to the nazi and white supremescist movements than a burden. Some people would do good jst dropping them and supporting non violent protesters instead.
 
beerftw said:
Um anti govt is for dissolution of the state, dissolution means to end, to end a partnership etc, and antifa is anti govt wanting an end to the current govt, hence it fits that definition quite nice.

And yes they do engage in terrorist activities, which is why I fail to understand why some on the left favor them and protect them, they are a drag on their movements, and more advantage to the nazi and white supremescist movements than a burden. Some people would do good jst dropping them and supporting non violent protesters instead.
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Anarchism is a political affiliation. In the BBC article, for example, antifa are:
anti-government and anti-capitalist, and their methodologies are often perceived as more closely aligned with anarchists than the mainstream left.
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If I'm a fascist (I'm not) and I want to abolish Congress (I don't), then this is the type of group that I would label anarchist. If the Trump administration really wanted to shut down Antifa, my guess is there is more that they could do to achieve that goal. You seem to think that there will be a 'Reichstag fire' which will trigger the shutdown of Antifa, don't you?
 
Bodhisattva said:
IF you mean they were peace advocates protesting American hypocrisy then you are right...
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There are no Nazis in Berkeley to attack, and only a small handful of people wearing MAGA hats. When this occurs, Antifa goes back to spitting on police officers and throwing balloons filled with urine.
 
This was an Alt Right black flag operation to make it look like the left was playing meany again.

We all know it.
 
Quazimodo said:
Black clad Anarchists attack! Is free speech dead?

Black-clad anarchists storm Berkeley rally, assaulting 4 - Chicago Tribune
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From the second paragraph...
"... waving a flag identifying themselves as anarchists, busted through police lines, avoiding security checks by officers."

From the 4th paragraph...
"Once anarchists arrived, it was clear there would not be dueling protests between left and right so he ordered his officers out of the park and allowed the anarchists to march in."

Any idea what actually happened?
 
Antifa are a-holes, plain and simple.

But the Right marched despite not having a permit, so it's a stretch to say their free speech was abridged; they lacked the proper permits for their free speech expression.
 
Grand Mal said:
From the second paragraph...
"... waving a flag identifying themselves as anarchists, busted through police lines, avoiding security checks by officers."

From the 4th paragraph...
"Once anarchists arrived, it was clear there would not be dueling protests between left and right so he ordered his officers out of the park and allowed the anarchists to march in."

Any idea what actually happened?
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The Daily Mail has a good piece with lots of color action pictures. The one of the anarchist striking a photographer with a club is particulary brutal.
Masked antifa swarm at Berkeley rally, assaulting several | Daily Mail Online
 
beerftw said:
omfg someone read history yaaaaaay though I doubt most will understand the reichstag fire or the events leading up to it or how being violent against nazis only helped them instead of hurt them.
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It's a lesson that seems bound to be repeated for those who didn't pay attention in History class.
 
Chomsky said:
Antifa are a-holes, plain and simple.

But the Right marched despite not having a permit, so it's a stretch to say their free speech was abridged; they lacked the proper permits for their free speech expression.
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They absolutely should obtain the correct permits. If they don't, their "rally" is little more than a gang meeting another gang in a back alley.

But, when they have those permits, we must all defend their right to speak their mind -- even if their message is repulsive.
 
beerftw said:
omfg someone read history yaaaaaay though I doubt most will understand the reichstag fire or the events leading up to it or how being violent against nazis only helped them instead of hurt them.
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I have to admit I am largely ignorant of the actual events and only have a basic cliff notes version of what happened. I have been trying to explain to people how the violence is only helping the Nazis to people who seem to refuse to understand that concept. Is there anything you recommend reading so that I can get a better understanding of the actual events so I can make clearer points with actual historical facts to back up my statements?
 
This isn't a free speech issue. And it's not a permit issure.

It's an assault issue. Assaulting people for marching is not OK, whether they have a permit or not. It's a crime that should be punished by the state.
 
Phys251 said:
Good, you acknowledge that Antifa are anarchists. Baby steps.

For the record, I condemn any form of political violence, including Antifa's. They're playing with fire--a Reichstag fire.
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anarcho communists. the red flag is for socialism/communism, the black flag is for anarchism. They are mostly made up of far left collectivist scum. derp.
 
HowardBThiname said:
They absolutely should obtain the correct permits. If they don't, their "rally" is little more than a gang meeting another gang in a back alley.

But, when they have those permits, we must all defend their right to speak their mind -- even if their message is repulsive.
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These groups are getting permits. After the permit is issued, however, the event is cancelled due to concerns of violence. It's a pretty sweet deal for the city or town. They are protected from claims of discrimination because they issued the permit and then get to stop the event anyway because a third party group has expressed violent intent. It's a great, legal way to infringe on free speech.
 
JamesBY said:
This was an Alt Right black flag operation to make it look like the left was playing meany again.

We all know it.
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That would be "false flag" operation.

Nothing worse than attention whoring trolls who can't even get the terms right. <smh>
 
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