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Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia**[W:808]**

Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Unitedwestand13 said:
Antifa is short for anti-fascist. Isn't being anti-fascist considered a good thing as opposed to supporting fascism??
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I'm sorry but this...this argument is just so mind boggling problematic that i just had to comment on it.

No. Just no. Judging whether a group is good or not by singularly looking at their name in the most literally sense and going "this means x, isn't x good as opposed to opposite of x!"

There's a group known as the American Freedom party. If I went "Isn't being in favor of American Freedom a good thing as opposed to American Tyranny?", using your logic, it'd seem like a perfectly reasonable argument. After all, the NAME of the group is American Freedom! Who can dislike American Freedom!

Except for the fact that the American Freedom Party is a white nationalist organization, one that tends to champion the notion of a "white genocide" occuring.

Antifa is not simply "anti-facism". "Anti-fascism" isn't a group, it's the simple act of being opposed to fascism, and there's a large amount of people that fall into that group that in no way, shape, or form fit in with Antifa. Why is that? Because Antifa is not simply about being "anti-facism", but rather is a group who's views regarding the manner in which fascism should be confronted is, by and large, far more aggressive and direct than others, often specifically not just defending but encouraging and promoting the use of violence in the name of being "anti-facist".

They are a fringe group who have been showing a routinely tendancy to enflame situations and be a party to significant instances of violence. Does that make them "worse" than White Surpemacists as an idiology? No. However, White Surpemacists are not some kind of dividing line, where anything that is not as bad as them should just be ignored in favor of attacking them, with the actions of such groups just being shrugged off because "at least they're not white supremacists".

As it relates to the IDEOLOGIES involved in todays protest, those of the white supremacists are far and away the worst and most vile.

As it relates to the methodology and actions of those involved in today's protests, there is plenty of blame to go around across all sorts of groups occupying varied spaces on the ideology scale.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Fenton said:
Lets put aside your personal obsession with the Alt-right boogie man for a bit

Using tragedies such as this to push a politcal agenda is as low as it gets in my book, and there are plenty of posters in this thread doing just that.

They see it as a jumping off point to attack Trump and score Political points, and Politicians are doing the same.
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ROFL. Your ilk did this for 8 years when Obama was president. EVERY time someone black committed a crime against a white person, the right would be screaming "It's Obama's fault", "It's Eric Holder's fault". And now suddenly you are pretending to dislike using tragedies for political gain, when your side did it for 8 years?

BTW, why didn't the new GOP president in his speech completely stomp on the white nationalist crowd that supported him? Trump uses twitter a lot, right? Why not tweet something about how he doesn't want Duke and other white nationalists supporting him no more? What's so hard about it?
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

apdst said:
Show me where did. I'll help you: you didn't.
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I have condemned Antifa many times and never once endorsed them. Feel free to find any past posts where I defended their actions.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Zyphlin said:
I'm sorry but this...this argument is just so mind boggling problematic that i just had to comment on it.

No. Just no. Judging whether a group is good or not by singularly looking at their name in the most literally sense and going "this means x, isn't x good as opposed to opposite of x!"

There's a group known as the American Freedom party. If I went "Isn't being in favor of American Freedom a good thing as opposed to American Tyranny?", using your logic, it'd seem like a perfectly reasonable argument. After all, the NAME of the group is American Freedom! Who can dislike American Freedom!

Except for the fact that the American Freedom Party is a white nationalist organization, one that tends to champion the notion of a "white genocide" occuring.

Antifa is not simply "anti-facism". "Anti-fascism" isn't a group, it's the simple act of being opposed to fascism, and there's a large amount of people that fall into that group that in no way, shape, or form fit in with Antifa. Why is that? Because Antifa is not simply about being "anti-facism", but rather is a group who's views regarding the manner in which fascism should be confronted is, by and large, far more aggressive and direct than others, often specifically not just defending but encouraging and promoting the use of violence in the name of being "anti-facist".

They are a fringe group who have been showing a routinely tendancy to enflame situations and be a party to significant instances of violence. Does that make them "worse" than White Surpemacists as an idiology? No. However, White Surpemacists are not some kind of dividing line, where anything that is not as bad as them should just be ignored in favor of attacking them, with the actions of such groups just being shrugged off because "at least they're not white supremacists".

As it relates to the IDEOLOGIES involved in todays protest, those of the white supremacists are far and away the worst and most vile.

As it relates to the methodology and actions of those involved in today's protests, there is plenty of blame to go around across all sorts of groups occupying varied spaces on the ideology scale.
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I have no idea who is in the group "antifa", all I have seen is the term tossed around so I have no idea if people are talking about a specific organization.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Fenton said:
Lol !

No way in the world thats gonna backfire politically. If voters refuse to support your party, candidate and agenda ? Call them " racist " !

Funny thing is, historically those hoods were worn by Democrats, the same Democrats that introduced the world to Jim Crowe
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Your hood is off, as well.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Geoist said:
I have condemned Antifa many times and never once endorsed them. Feel free to find any past posts where I defended their actions.
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Link?
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

RedAkston said:
The white nationalists are such a small percentage of the populace. They are so small that they are insignificant. Now if their numbers came anywhere close to the numbers that we are seeing from BLM and their supporters/defenders or from Antifa and their supporters/defenders or if the violence they create came anywhere close to BLM or Antifa then you all would have a point. If they would have been ignored the past two days, as they should have been, then there wouldn't have been any violence today because there wouldn't have been any agitators to commit violence against (you do realize that there was violence from both sides and yet you seem to only be attacking one side when I'm clearly calling out BOTH sides).

There seem to be too many people, especially left of center, that are looking and this and responding from an emotional standpoint rather than a logical standpoint. The white nationalists are a group of racist idiots who pose as much of a threat to this country as Antarctica does to Iceland. They are seking attention and they were given attention these past two days. This could have been a non-issue but those with cooler heads did not prevail as we saw today.
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Where's your evidence of this assertion. The Trump loving white nationalist crowd actually states they are growing in numbers.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Verax said:
Here's a list of links to violent right wingers murdering, beating, and spreading hate. I'm sure this is all part of the conspiracy too along with Wikipedia and every website in the world that says things you don't want to believe. Right wingers are the most dangerous group in the U.S.

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/675rlh/why_are_leftists_so_violent/
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Wrong, the most dangerous group in America are special interests.

The "facts" are cherry picked and they always have been. Both sides (left and right) cherry pick, its what they do. If "right wingers" - you know, those who cling to their bibles and their guns, were really dangerous, they would have taken over by now. So enjoy your fail sandwich. I've heard they go better with a little mayonnaise and a pickle.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Nap said:
Without going into a detailed explanation will keep it short. I consider myself a classical liberal and my views are largely a cross of conservative - Libertarian with a dislike for the Religious Right and Authoritarian Republicans. While there are some issues I disagree with him I believe he would have had an easier time furthering policy I would support. I think Paul would have had a tougher time consolidating Republicans in getting policy pushed though (similar to the troubles Trump is having). Also, the idea of having the first Hispanic President as a Republican would be pretty ironic.

Basically I don't have much faith in someone coming in and being able to make quick progress due to the many divisions of the Right so will sacrifice to at least get the ball rolling in the Right direction.
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apdst said:
Branding everyone who disagrees with your politics a racist and a nazi is the perfect sales pitch to peddle the Liberal agenda. Keep up the hard work...please!
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Thanks, I love irony.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

And here's the dirty reality almost everyone on this forum seems to be missing....

If these ****ing troglodyte backwards white supremacists had did they're little protest and march, and groups like Antifa and others didn't come there purposefully setting up "Counter protests" that were largely meant to be anywhere between the realm of antagonistic to aggressive in the same general vicinity (and in some cases in the direct path of the other protest), do you want to know how much media attention, recognition, and exposure for their movement they would've gotten?

0% nationally, and even probably close to 5% if that within the state. It would've barely been even a blip on the radar, something not known to anyone outside of the immediate vicinity or by those that are so ingrained in that sick culture that they follow all the current events.

The ONLY reason this is a national story? The ONLY reason this is trending on Twitter? The ONLY reason that the POTUS is having to give a statement on it? The ONLY reason there is a state of emergency in my state?

Because of the violence. And the violence is the fault of both sides in this. There are plenty of sources and stories all throughout highlighting incidents of violence started by individuals on both sides. I've even heard this from direct first hand sources in the midst of it all. People point to the Nationalists coming with various things (I saw someone mentioned kevlar for example) indicating they were ready for a fight, and using that to place the blame singularly on them. And yet, the large reason groups such as this would do that is because you have movements like Antifa, those known to popularize the notion of "punch nazis!", actively and publicly making it known they're going to be there to counter protest. This not to say the blame is on Antifa, its not. It's also not to say the blame is necessarily on the white supremacists. Rather, its to highlight that there's multiple factors leading to the actions of all those involved, and the ultimate "fault" is simply on those on EITHER side that actually began to engage in violence.

But it is that VIOLENCE that is bringing attention to this. It is that violence that has made this a national story. It is that violence that, yes, is making some aware of the idiocy of these supremacists. However, at the same time it also potentially helps them look victimized or picked upon by, or perhaps simply makes their message suddenly able to reach, individuals who otherwise would've never even been aware of this protest occurring.

And it's why I can understand why some people are focusing on the violence. White supremacy is a ridiculous, hateful, horrible, worthless ideology and view point that should be shunned, mocked, and rejected by all. And, by and large, as a whole scale ideology it is. But the actual protest? It's not "news", it's not noteworthy, and it's not worthy of any real attention beyond scorn. It's a bunch of angry idiots being angry idiots and it shouldn't matter.

But the violence? The violence is a problem. You know what doesn't actually cause problems for the people of Charlottesville? Some bigots standing in a park making bigoted statements in favor of some bigoted ideal. You know what DOES cause problems for the people of Charlottesville? Violence in the streets, destruction of property, roads being blocked, etc.

One of the things, the rally/protest, is in line with our constitutional rights and the law. It's idiotic and dumb, but it's largely non consequential and nonfunctional to people, especially if it's not given any real attention. The violence, however, in all fashions is not legal, and is consequential and potentially problematic for the people of that city.

The more we allow either side to think that this kind of behavior of "lets both plan diametrically opposed protests directly across from each other by two groups that routinely talk about how open/fine/willing they are to act violently towards the other, and then when we actually engage in those protests lets start getting violent" is okay, or can be overlooked because instead we just need to deem one group or the other as the "biggest problem ideologically" and should instead just focus on attacking THAT instead of the actual violence, then the more we're going to keep getting this kind of mass idiocy.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Verax said:
https://www.adl.org/education/resou...ears-of-right-wing-terrorism-in-united-states

CR_5154_25YRS%20RightWing_01.jpg


From all the statistics I've seen over the years, right wingers make up the bulk of domestic terrorism whether compared to islamic fundamentalists or left wingers. The only exception to this was 9/11.
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You realize your graph is ONLY depicting "right wing" terrorism. It makes no attempt to depict any of the other forms of terrorism.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Unitedwestand13 said:
I have no idea who is in the group "antifa", all I have seen is the term tossed around so I have no idea if people are talking about a specific organization.
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Antifa is made up of Leftists. You all never condemn them.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

It's freedom of speech folks. You might not like it, you might find it disgusting (as I do), you might think these people are any number of things, but it is also their right to demonstrate.

If you find their viewpoints idiotic or repulsive then do what I do: stay the **** away from them. There's no law that says you have to show up too. If they get out of hand the riot police will handle them.

It's not worth wasting your weekend, or possibly getting hurt or thrown in jail for a couple of days.
 
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Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Puigb said:
Where's your evidence of this assertion. The Trump loving white nationalist crowd actually states they are growing in numbers.
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Today's "protest" was a national gathering of many of them and how many were there? More people show up at a local BLM rally/protest than showed up today. And of course they are going to say that their numbers are growing, and they may be, but do you think the publicity they were just given will help or hurt their "recruitment"?
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

RedAkston said:
Today's "protest" was a national gathering of many of them and how many were there? More people show up at a local BLM rally/protest than showed up today. And of course they are going to say that their numbers are growing, and they may be, but do you think the publicity they were just given will help or hurt their "recruitment"?
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So you have no proof, gotcha.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Caine said:
You realize your graph is ONLY depicting "right wing" terrorism. It makes no attempt to depict any of the other forms of terrorism.
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Sssshhhh, I wanted him to run with his "facts" a little bit more. The hole he was digging himself wasn't quite deep enough yet. :)
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Unitedwestand13 said:
I have no idea who is in the group "antifa", all I have seen is the term tossed around so I have no idea if people are talking about a specific organization.
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It is a political movement, with a few disparate localized groups but not unified singular national organization, similar in setup to the early days of the "tea party movement". Or comparable to, well, the "alt-right" right now. There is no overarching group called the "alt-right", rather it's a political movement, with various people who identify with the general mindset, ideology, and methodology and others who are organized in various smaller localized groups that would fall under that movements umbrella.

Here's one example of a localized group of them based out of Portland, which is one of the big hotbeds for the Antifa movement in america atm.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

White nationalists. Black Lives Matter.

There is no difference. Both racially fueled hate groups..
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

MovingPictures said:
It's freedom of speech folks. You might not like it, you might find it disgusting (as I do), you might think these people are any number of things, but it is also their right to demonstrate.

If you find their viewpoints idiotic or repulsive then do what I do: stay the **** away from them. There's no law that saws you have to show up too. If they get out of hand the riot police will handle them.

It's not worth wasting your weekend, or possibly getting hurt or thrown in jail for a couple of days.
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I'd have to agree. There is no way I would be within 100 miles of those scumbags. But, what they did last night was not peaceful protest. Actually, just the opposite, they formed a mob and assaulted a peaceful prayer group while shouting "White Power" and some stupid **** about Jews.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

RedAkston said:
Today's "protest" was a national gathering of many of them and how many were there? More people show up at a local BLM rally/protest than showed up today. And of course they are going to say that their numbers are growing, and they may be, but do you think the publicity they were just given will help or hurt their "recruitment"?
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This.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

RedAkston said:
Wrong, the most dangerous group in America are special interests.

The "facts" are cherry picked and they always have been. Both sides (left and right) cherry pick, its what they do. If "right wingers" - you know, those who cling to their bibles and their guns, were really dangerous, they would have taken over by now. So enjoy your fail sandwich. I've heard they go better with a little mayonnaise and a pickle.
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I'm merely demonstrating that right wing terrorism is a common thing. You suggested it is insignificant and then when displayed proof you hand waved it all away as lies and conspiracy. Your argument involves a sandwich and a bizarre "if then" pulled straight out of your ass.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

RedAkston said:
Today's "protest" was a national gathering of many of them and how many were there? More people show up at a local BLM rally/protest than showed up today. And of course they are going to say that their numbers are growing, and they may be, but do you think the publicity they were just given will help or hurt their "recruitment"?
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There were 12. And 45 did not condemn the neo-Nazis or white supremacists. 45 gave them cover as do those who defend them.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

Erod said:
White nationalists. Black Lives Matter.

There is no difference. Both racially fueled hate groups..
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Except one has a legitimate gripe about being oppressed---and, it ain't the white dudes.
 
Re: Far-right protesters gather at University of Virginia

calamity said:
I'd have to agree. There is no way I would be within 100 miles of those scumbags. But, what they did last night was not peaceful protest. Actually, just the opposite, they formed a mob and assaulted a peaceful prayer group while shouting "White Power" and some stupid **** about Jews.
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Yep. They are terrorists. A bunch of Trump voting terrorists. And the president REFUSES to specifically call them out on it.
 
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