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Chinese Tourists Arrested Over Nazi Salutes

Chinese Tourists Arrested Over Nazi Salutes



Predictable but despicable how the NYT frames this story to be another example of "disrespectful tourists" rather than highlight the more serious and real story: how Germany's modern fascists use government force to silence opposing ideas and child propaganda to indoctrinate compliance and acceptance of oppression and crimethink.

Just sad.

What is sad is that the Chinese aren't a free people. It's really a shame in a country that has increased its national wealth by a bunch.
 
"Identifies as a German"? It's pretty clear to figure out it somebody is a German or not.

Government has been suppressing far right fascism for more than fifty years in various parts of Germany and elsewhere with a great deal of success. It's only in the last fifteen years or so that the scum have been emboldened to emerge from their lairs.

False. Governments suppressing what is known as a show of support for Nazism does not legitimize Nazis in any way, shape or form.

I made no statement regarding how one would go about identifying a German, but merely stated a truth about narratives that people adopt. Someone who identifies as German has to accept the nasty history of the Nazis as part of their identity. Just like anyone identifying as American has to accept our history regarding slavery. People build their self-identities by fitting themselves within a larger narrative story. This is why the earlier statement that implied modern-day Germans should share no guilt for the actions of the Nazis is not entirely correct. While it is certainly true that a modern-day German may not have committed any acts on behalf of the Nazis and may despise Nazis, by identifying as German, he or she has to accept that part of their self-identity does include the actions of the Nazis. It's like when a US soldier started shooting civilians in Afghanistan. As an American, I am not personally responsible for his acts, but I felt badly about what happened precisely because I identify myself as American and as an American I feel responsible, to some degree, for the actions of my fellow Americans in uniform.

Define this so-called "success"? There is a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany, with German NGOs financing more anti-Semitism in the Middle East than any other nation. There are a lot of fools who claim that Holocaust-denial must be true, because why else would it be banned? What are people afraid of? This is an argument that one cannot make in America because there is no ban on denial speech. In fact, we are witnessing right now a real emergence of anti-Semitism throughout western Europe, so I don't see these speech bans as a "success" at all.
 
I made no statement regarding how one would go about identifying a German, but merely stated a truth about narratives that people adopt. Someone who identifies as German has to accept the nasty history of the Nazis as part of their identity. Just like anyone identifying as American has to accept our history regarding slavery. People build their self-identities by fitting themselves within a larger narrative story. This is why the earlier statement that implied modern-day Germans should share no guilt for the actions of the Nazis is not entirely correct. While it is certainly true that a modern-day German may not have committed any acts on behalf of the Nazis and may despise Nazis, by identifying as German, he or she has to accept that part of their self-identity does include the actions of the Nazis. It's like when a US soldier started shooting civilians in Afghanistan. As an American, I am not personally responsible for his acts, but I felt badly about what happened precisely because I identify myself as American and as an American I feel responsible, to some degree, for the actions of my fellow Americans in uniform.

Define this so-called "success"? There is a lot of anti-Semitism in Germany, with German NGOs financing more anti-Semitism in the Middle East than any other nation. There are a lot of fools who claim that Holocaust-denial must be true, because why else would it be banned? What are people afraid of? This is an argument that one cannot make in America because there is no ban on denial speech. In fact, we are witnessing right now a real emergence of anti-Semitism throughout western Europe, so I don't see these speech bans as a "success" at all.

And as I stated earlier, the vast majority of it comes from the former East Germany, where the communist regime removed the burden of personal responsiblity from the people.

Fools claim that in the US too, and last time I checked it wasn't actually banned here.

People are not obligated to let others call for violence against minorities, and that's what support for Nazism is. A key tenant of Nazism was always oppression and extermination of minority groups.

Yep, because with the reemergence of "populism" the fascists think it's safe to come out of their holes again. Populism and anti Semitism in the West seem to be rather closely linked.
 
Asians havent really been taught that Nazi symbols and gestures are taboo. The swastika in China and in other parts of Asia has a different meaning- Ive seen quite a few of them prominently displayed in stickers and on painted vehicles in my travels, so the issue is that its a cultural divide more than anything else.

And neither went to school to study world history? The swastika is the single most famous symbol of inhumanity in the world.
 
Asians havent really been taught that Nazi symbols and gestures are taboo. The swastika in China and in other parts of Asia has a different meaning- Ive seen quite a few of them prominently displayed in stickers and on painted vehicles in my travels, so the issue is that its a cultural divide more than anything else.

the Japanese have made a cartoon/Anime called Girls Und Panzers which is very popular in Asia ... it is almost glorifying the PanzerTruppen whilst having sound tracks like Panzerlied
 
I hate to break it to you, but it is not "authoritarian" in the slightest to suppress Nazism. Nazism deserves to be suppressed.

You believe that because you see the situation from an authoritarian perspective: Idea X is "bad", by a definition of your choosing, and so those in power are justified in its forceful suppression in order to preserve the "goodness", also by a definition of your choosing, of society.

For those of us who do not see the situation from the perspective of authoritarianism, though, the narrative looks different: Idea X is incompatible with the interests of those in power and those in power are using that power to suppress ideas, such as X, that run counter to their prevailing interests in a fashion no different from any other oppressive, authoritarian state as seen throughout the history of forever.

Your authoritarian lean cannot help but color the way you see the situation, and the way you talk about the situation easily reveals that lean to your audience.


There is no "freedom to think your neighbor should be exterminated".

Thankfully in some countries there still is, and double thankfully that I happen to live in one of them.

The world should not be in any way, shape or form concerned with the wellbeing of those who chose to flash Nazi salutes, insignia, etc.

Like I said, you being a huge fan of authoritarianism and all...
 
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You believe that because you see the situation from an authoritarian perspective: Idea X is "bad", by a definition of your choosing, and so those in power are justified in its forceful suppression in order to preserve the "goodness", also by a definition of your choosing, of society.

For those of us who do not see the situation from the perspective of authoritarianism, though, the narrative looks different: Idea X is incompatible with the interests of those in power and those in power are using that power to suppress ideas, such as X, that run counter to their prevailing interests in a fashion no different from any other oppressive, authoritarian state as seen throughout the history of forever.

Your authoritarian lean cannot help but color the way you see the situation, and the way you talk about the situation easily reveals that lean to your audience.




Thankfully in some countries there still is, and double thankfully that I happen to live in one of them.



Like I said, you being a huge fan of authoritarianism and all...

Idea X, in this case Nazism, is not subjectively bad, but objectively bad. It's a fact--- Nazism is bad. And there is zero reason to toletate those who condone it.

Unless, of course, you think genocide, war crimes, slave labor and the subjugation of other countries isn't wrong.

Nazism is incompatible with any decent human being's beliefs and interests. Suppressing Nazism isn't "oppressive"; it's what any state has a responsibility to do.

Thankfully? Jesus ****ing Christ.

I can tell you are certainly seem to be a fan of one authoritarian system.....
 
Idea X, in this case Nazism, is not subjectively bad, but objectively bad. It's a fact--- Nazism is bad. And there is zero reason to toletate those who condone it.

Unless, of course, you think genocide, war crimes, slave labor and the subjugation of other countries isn't wrong.

Nazism is incompatible with any decent human being's beliefs and interests. Suppressing Nazism isn't "oppressive"; it's what any state has a responsibility to do.

Thankfully? Jesus ****ing Christ.

I can tell you are certainly seem to be a fan of one authoritarian system.....

Your pathetic attempt to paint me as a Nazi sympathizer because I do not subscribe to the philosophy that it is okay to outlaw mere beliefs or expressions solely because they are thought disagreeable will not get you far.

It's clear where both of us stand. The rest is up to our audience to figure out.
 
Your pathetic attempt to paint me as a Nazi sympathizer because I do not subscribe to the philosophy that it is okay to outlaw mere beliefs or expressions solely because they are thought disagreeable will not get you far.

It's clear where both of us stand. The rest is up to our audience to figure out.

Nazism is not a "mere belief". It is a philosophy which calls for mass murder and genocide as a matter of course. Free speech ends where calls for violence begin.
 
And neither went to school to study world history? The swastika is the single most famous symbol of inhumanity in the world.

They knew about it but like I said, its not big deal in Asia, I recall there was even a SE Asian commercial or something about Hitler advertising for a restaurant.
 
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