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North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten [W:38]

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

By Joshua Berlinger and K.J. Kwon
Mon August 7, 2017

North Korean state media has slammed the latest round of sanctions approved by the United Nations, calling them a "flagrant violation of our sovereignty." It vowed retaliation against Washington. The UN Security Council unanimously adopted new sanctions Saturday in response to Pyongyang's long-range ballistic missile tests on July 4 and July 28. The measures aim to make it harder for North Korea to make money across the globe. They target North Korea's primary exports -- including coal, iron and seafood -- and attempt to cut off its additional revenue streams by targeting some of its banks and joint ventures with foreign companies. Speaking at the ASEAN Regional Forum on Monday, North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho blamed the US for the current situation on the Korean Peninsula and said Pyongyang's "possession of nuclear weapons and intercontinental ballistic missiles is a legitimate option for self-defence in the face of a clear and real nuclear threat posed by the US," according to a statement released by North Korea. "We will, under no circumstances, put the nukes and ballistic rockets on the negotiating table," Ri said, adding Pyongyang would "teach the US a severe lesson" if it used military force against North Korea.

Also on Monday, North Korea's state-run KCNA news agency said the country's missile launches were a "stern warning to the US," and warned Washington against "believing that its land is safe across the ocean." KCNA accused the US of "trying to drive the situation of the Korean Peninsula to the brink of nuclear war" and pushing the UN to pass new sanctions. "(North Korea) will make the US pay dearly for all the heinous crimes it commits against the state and people of this country," KCNA said. Pyongyang sees its weapons program as the key to preventing US-led attempts at regime change, and the July missile tests showed Pyongyang may have passed an important threshold in its quest to obtain the ability to hit the US with a nuclear warhead. Weapons experts say the two intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) were theoretically capable of reaching the mainland United States. But they were both fired at a lofted angle, likely to avoid hitting land (both ICBMs landed in the waters off the coast of the Korean Peninsula.)
Click to expand...

I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with Russian collusion?
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Regarding suffering, the Norks are a special case, much like Japan in WW2.

Rather than wait for a nuke to land in California - not a bad thing according to some -, I would be OK with helping a crop failure occur.

Before you call me a mean wienie, you have to decide what your risk tolerance if for a nuclear strike in your county.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

countryboy said:
What does this have to do with Russian collusion?
Click to expand...

What does Russian collusion have to do with this?
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

China voted WITH the National Security Council to impose these sanctions, which in itself is progress

Anyway, I have no doubt that we'll wake up one morning to the news that the US has carried out strikes on North Korean nuke facilities. Its only a matter of time
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Put booze in the home of an alcoholic and sooner or later it be consumed.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

Oh come on now.

And what are the North Koreans going to do once they 'mate' nukes with their ICBM's?

Take out L.A..?

And then have a bunch of American ICBM's obliterate their country.

Yeah...right.


There is NO WAY NK is going to do anything with those ICBM's except try and threaten people with them.

That should be INCREDIBLY obvious.

MAD worked during the Cold War...and it will work now.


Why do people get so frightened so easily when it is clear NOTHING is going to happen (in terms of a NK nuke strike on America).

The fat, little NK leader is just stomping his fat, little feet.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

Rational? That's too subjective for me to answer since most would say (including me) as you did above that any attack on the DPRK would result in hundreds of thousands, if not millions, dead on the Korean Peninsula and would endanger Japan, the US (Guam, maybe Hawaii, and maybe even Alaska), Australia, and other "westernized" countries in the region.

Any action that threatens the viability of the Kim regime will cause the DPRK to use preemptive military action, including going nuclear. That would include any form of regime change efforts which would also include sanctions such as the ones just imposed by the UNSC. Compounding this is the fact that the world cannot allow the DPRK to attain the technology to deploy warheads to Japan, Australia, the US, or anywhere for that matter.

Given that, when it comes to rational (if rational means actions that would not end in war), the world has already allowed the DPRK to cross the Rubicon. It's now simply a matter of when, not if. And, given that, we should make sure the when is of our choosing where the east amount of death and destruction will result, compared to if the world allows the DPRK to complete their delivery technology.

Is that rational? No, not really. Is it avoidable? I don't think so. For too long, decades, the US, both political parties, has sat back afraid of what would happen if the DPRK moved south to Seoul and attacked full force in response to something we did, which allowed the DPRK to first get their nuclear capability and now to get the tech to actually use it. When do we act? Do we wait until some city is smoldering under a mushroom cloud that was deployed by a terrorist group that the DPRK sold a bomb, or that was deployed by the DPRK themselves?

I understand why you asked about a rational suggestion, but, we passed the ability to use anything rational to deter the DPRK way back in the 1980's. IMHO that is.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

I was going to say drop some zombies in NK, but you said "rational ways". In that case the reality is that we should see where the sanctions lead. It is really up to Kim where this will go and how fast. While I feel this would never happen, Kim could offer to destroy his nuclear program in exchange for the sanctions to be dropped. The reason that he will not do such a thing is that Kim is boxed into being aggressive or his army will turn on him as a weak nothing. Of course he is doomed whichever direction that he takes.

The question though is what will the EU do? What will South Korea do? What will Japan do? The US are not the only ones involved. NK is barely a threat to us. One missile shot at us and the threat of another is blasted into the next century. AT that point NK would have no missile bases, no navy, no military bases, and most likely drone strikes trying to take Kim out personally.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

DA60 said:
Oh come on now.

And what are the North Koreans going to do once they 'mate' nukes with their ICBM's?

Take out L.A..?

And then have a bunch of American ICBM's obliterate their country.

Yeah...right.


There is NO WAY NK is going to do anything with those ICBM's except try and threaten people with them.

That should be INCREDIBLY obvious.

MAD worked during the Cold War...and it will work now.


Why do people get so frightened so easily when it is clear NOTHING is going to happen (in terms of a NK nuke strike on America).

The fat, little NK leader is just stomping his fat, little feet.
Click to expand...

And do you want nuclear black mail up until the point they actually let them fly do to pique, or an misunderstanding, or demand not met? Hydrogen bombs are the next logical step.

It is the president's job to is protect the USA against existential threats where possible. I can't think of anyone as dangerous as NoKo.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

DA60 said:
Oh come on now.

And what are the North Koreans going to do once they 'mate' nukes with their ICBM's?

Take out L.A..?

And then have a bunch of American ICBM's obliterate their country.

Yeah...right.


There is NO WAY NK is going to do anything with those ICBM's except try and threaten people with them.

That should be INCREDIBLY obvious.

MAD worked during the Cold War...and it will work now.


Why do people get so frightened so easily when it is clear NOTHING is going to happen (in terms of a NK nuke strike on America).

The fat, little NK leader is just stomping his fat, little feet.
Click to expand...

The Cold War stayed cold because of the numerous Hot Proxy Wars around the world - Vietnam, Afghanistan in the 80's, Central America's numerous conflicts, and so on. Those allowed the US and the USSR to shoot at each other (pressure relief valves) without shooting at each other's homeland. That option doesn't exist with the DPRK.

On top of that oversight, your post doesn't take into account that the USSR wouldn't have gone nuclear if their regime began to fall, as was proven when they actually did fall, with the help of the US and other countries. Kim Jong Un will not. If his regime begins to fall, even from simple economic collapse or an internal uprising, he will blame the US and attack with full force. MAD isn't a factor, because even if the DPRK can get the tech to allow their warheads to survive reentering the atmosphere and hitting the US, they can not destroy us completely like the USSR could. So, it's better for the US to take out their limited capability before they can hit Hawaii accurately or the US west coast at all.

There are numerous other truths that make a comparison between the USSR and the US in the Cold War (Mutually Assured Destruction) unrealistic and naïve.

Kim Jong Un is the most glaring difference, and the world can only rely on him to do what is unpredictable, including wanting to do as much destruction as possible to his own country to prevent others from occupying it, killing his own people in the process, and the attacking the world at-large killing millions before he takes his last breath.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

FreedomFromAll said:
I was going to say drop some zombies in NK, but you said "rational ways". In that case the reality is that we should see where the sanctions lead. It is really up to Kim where this will go and how fast. While I feel this would never happen, Kim could offer to destroy his nuclear program in exchange for the sanctions to be dropped. The reason that he will not do such a thing is that Kim is boxed into being aggressive or his army will turn on him as a weak nothing. Of course he is doomed whichever direction that he takes.

The question though is what will the EU do? What will South Korea do? What will Japan do? The US are not the only ones involved. NK is barely a threat to us. One missile shot at us and the threat of another is blasted into the next century. AT that point NK would have no missile bases, no navy, no military bases, and most likely drone strikes trying to take Kim out personally.
Click to expand...

If anyone attempts to do anything to NK, they'll attempt to obliterate SK.
If I'm not mistaken, they have artillery aimed at all the near population centers in SK, including Seoul.
It's already a type of MAD.

NK is developing nukes for ever greater leverage and self preservation.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

BTW - I am 100% against these sanctions.

Sanctions are asinine and almost NEVER work....look at Cuba.

All they do is punish the population and strengthen the leader's hold over them by blaming their hardship on the 'big bad' people that are sanctioning them. It just isolates the country more.

They are useless, stupid, cruel and almost never work.

And the sanctions are ridiculously hypocritical as well. Why are America and most of the major world powers allowed to have nukes but not NK? They have not attacked anyone with them. In fact, they have not attacked anyone - except small skirmishes - since 1953 (to my knowledge).

You want to get NK to get rid of their nukes...this will NEVER work.

The way to do it is to pull American troops out of the Korean peninsula and let the two Korea's work out their own problems. This will remove NK's big excuse of developing nukes to guard against a U.S./SK invasion.


And to all you neocons/easily frightened types? Save it...I am not wasting my time debating with people who cannot see this nonsense and the paranoia that America is drumming up over this.

Man...you people get SO frightened SO easily.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Harry Guerrilla said:
If anyone attempts to do anything to NK, they'll attempt to obliterate SK.
If I'm not mistaken, they have artillery aimed at all the near population centers in SK, including Seoul.
It's already a type of MAD.

NK is developing nukes for ever greater leverage and self preservation.
Click to expand...

Better them than us. If the south must be collateral damage to preserve the US homeland, then that is what must happen.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

chuckiechan said:
Better them than us. If the south must be collateral damage to preserve the US homeland, then that is what must happen.
Click to expand...

China doesn't want a united Korea, with the south in power.
If we act, they may move in to help NK.

Then after all that, the humanitarian crisis will probably be the largest ever.
You already have it, but no one can do anything, because it's under the NK regime.
On top of all that, the death toll will be enormous for SK, again probably the largest ever from a war.

Correction: not the largest death toll ever, but never the less in the millions.
 
Last edited:
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

This is North Korea behaving exactly as they have always behaved. They make ridiculously over-the-top threats and then try to cash in those threats in the form of concessions. I think the world has grown weary of this and 'lil Kim will soon be introduced to a MOAB if he keeps it up.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

shagg said:
What does Russian collusion have to do with this?
Click to expand...

Nothing. That's why I'm wondering why the OP brought it up. :shrug:
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Rogue Valley said:
North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten



I personally do not believe sanctions will alter Kim Jong Un's quest for nuclear WMD. The NK people will suffer under the new UN sanctions, but that is of no concern to the Kim regime. Time is running short. Within a year or less, NK will be able to mate nuclear warheads with ICBMs able to strike the continental United States. Precise targeting is not a primary concern. The overarching problem is, a preemptive war with NK will most likely kill millions on the Korean peninsula. It seems to me that the most sensible immediate response is to ring NK with concentric anti-missile systems in-depth.

Thoughts on rational ways to move forward?
Click to expand...

We shall see. If the Chinese and to a lesser degree the Russians stop propping the Kim up, then he could pack up within a few weeks. So let's watch them work the magic they have promised. And they might actually act this time. It seems they believe that the US might attack NK and are not at all sure that the weapons used would not be severe. The fall out of war on the peninsula is something the Chinese absolutely do not want to deal with and think that in a worst case it could destabilize their own society.

If the Chinese and Russians do not do anything, the next steps for the US are to make it totally and irrevocably clear that they have a last chance. Thereafter the only question is, how convincingly the destruction should demonstrate that it is better to have a supra nationally communal general and robust system of international security and protection of populations. Which weapons will most convince the global community of this and how would one best go about it to avoid escalating hysteria from China.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

DA60 said:
BTW - I am 100% against these sanctions.

Sanctions are asinine and almost NEVER work....look at Cuba.

All they do is punish the population and strengthen the leader's hold over them by blaming their hardship on the 'big bad' people that are sanctioning them. It just isolates the country more.

They are useless, stupid, cruel and almost never work.

And the sanctions are ridiculously hypocritical as well. Why are America and most of the major world powers allowed to have nukes but not NK? They have not attacked anyone with them. In fact, they have not attacked anyone - except small skirmishes - since 1953 (to my knowledge).

You want to get NK to get rid of their nukes...this will NEVER work.

The way to do it is to pull American troops out of the Korean peninsula and let the two Korea's work out their own problems. This will remove NK's big excuse of developing nukes to guard against a U.S./SK invasion.


And to all you neocons/easily frightened types? Save it...I am not wasting my time debating with people who cannot see this nonsense and the paranoia that America is drumming up over this.

Man...you people get SO frightened SO easily.
Click to expand...

We don't agree much, but I think I agree with you here. Attacking NK is believed to result in 1,000,000 deaths. Not sure why we would risk something like that when Un wouldn't fire a nuke at us if he could.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

countryboy said:
Nothing. That's why I'm wondering why the OP brought it up. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Oh, I get it! This was an Ad Hom gift wrapped in sarcasm! And you managed to strongly suggest without actually saying, masterful! You must get a lot of practice in.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

shagg said:
Oh, I get it! This was an Ad Hom gift wrapped in sarcasm! And you managed to strongly suggest without actually saying, masterful! You must get a lot of practice in.
Click to expand...

I guess in progressive lala land, facts=ad hom. Why am I not surprised? :roll:
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

joG said:
We shall see. If the Chinese and to a lesser degree the Russians stop propping the Kim up, then he could pack up within a few weeks. So let's watch them work the magic they have promised. And they might actually act this time. It seems they believe that the US might attack NK and are not at all sure that the weapons used would not be severe. The fall out of war on the peninsula is something the Chinese absolutely do not want to deal with and think that in a worst case it could destabilize their own society.

If the Chinese and Russians do not do anything, the next steps for the US are to make it totally and irrevocably clear that they have a last chance. Thereafter the only question is, how convincingly the destruction should demonstrate that it is better to have a supra nationally communal general and robust system of international security and protection of populations. Which weapons will most convince the global community of this and how would one best go about it to avoid escalating hysteria from China.
Click to expand...

I don't think for a minute that China will stop propping up North Korea. They want it as a buffer state, not because they fear attack, but because they don't want a rich, prosperous, united Korea on their doorstep. It wouldn't be good for their ambition to dominate the region. It might even be a temptation to some of their people who would like to experience more political freedom to skip across the border for good. China will make sure that North Korea has just enough to barely survive.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

chuckiechan said:
Better them than us. If the south must be collateral damage to preserve the US homeland, then that is what must happen.
Click to expand...

Wow I'm glad you weren't with me in the military when I needed someone to watch my back.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

Beaudreaux said:
The Cold War stayed cold because of the numerous Hot Proxy Wars around the world - Vietnam, Afghanistan in the 80's, Central America's numerous conflicts, and so on. Those allowed the US and the USSR to shoot at each other (pressure relief valves) without shooting at each other's homeland. That option doesn't exist with the DPRK.

On top of that oversight, your post doesn't take into account that the USSR wouldn't have gone nuclear if their regime began to fall, as was proven when they actually did fall, with the help of the US and other countries. Kim Jong Un will not. If his regime begins to fall, even from simple economic collapse or an internal uprising, he will blame the US and attack with full force. MAD isn't a factor, because even if the DPRK can get the tech to allow their warheads to survive reentering the atmosphere and hitting the US, they can not destroy us completely like the USSR could. So, it's better for the US to take out their limited capability before they can hit Hawaii accurately or the US west coast at all.

There are numerous other truths that make a comparison between the USSR and the US in the Cold War (Mutually Assured Destruction) unrealistic and naïve.

Kim Jong Un is the most glaring difference, and the world can only rely on him to do what is unpredictable, including wanting to do as much destruction as possible to his own country to prevent others from occupying it, killing his own people in the process, and the attacking the world at-large killing millions before he takes his last breath.
Click to expand...

Kim still has to go through his generals to get anything launched. The big red button does not exist. They have an interest in self preservation and want to enjoy their wealth and power.

To think NK leadership other than being a family dictatorship is going to behave differently than the Ussr when it collapsed is because they are crazy indicates people have bought the disinformation that always exists. The man is crazy we have to take him out. Saddam is nuts and will nuke the US, or use chemical weapons on the US. The Iranians are crazy, the Indians are crazy.

Not everyone in the world is crazy, even in dictatorships the crazy ones typically are taken out before they stay to long (Nazi Germany being an exception)

The NK nuclear program has two functions. To say to the world my dick is as big as yours, and ensure that small things that NK does wont spill into an invasion of NK to remove the government.
 
Re: North Korea vows to 'make the US pay dearly' as sanctions tighten

countryboy said:
I guess in progressive lala land, facts=ad hom. Why am I not surprised? :roll:
Click to expand...

I must have missed the fact you posted.

countryboy said:
What does this have to do with Russian collusion?
Click to expand...

countryboy said:
Nothing. That's why I'm wondering why the OP brought it up. :shrug:
Click to expand...

Still not seeing it.....

You managed to get a "liberal la la land" reference in there though, strong work sport.
 
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