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President Trump's strong-arm tactics backfire in Senate, experts say

Zyphlin said:
Ah, so the poster was absolutely incorrect. Eh, not surprising really since he seemed to be going off flawed logic that a poll about one thing could be used to determine the views on something else.
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https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/ August 2, 2017

Public Approval of Health Care Law Economist/YouGov For/Favor 50, Against/Oppose 43 For/Favor +7

The 43% includes about 40% of that who favor improving the law, making Americans about 2 of 3 in keeping ACA or improving it.
 
Harshaw said:
Sounds like you didn't actually much believe in our system and Constitution, then, if you seriously believed a President could unilaterally destroy the system.

Sounds like you also might take checks and balances and the separation of powers more seriously now.
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In your estimation, no one President, no matter how psycho left or psycho right, could destroy the system? It's impossible?
 
Winston said:
In your estimation, no one President, no matter how psycho left or psycho right, could destroy the system? It's impossible?
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If he launched a nuclear holocaust, maybe. Other than that? By trying to assume dictatorial powers? No. That's the genius of the Constitution.
 
Harshaw said:
If he launched a nuclear holocaust, maybe. Other than that? By trying to assume dictatorial powers? No. That's the genius of the Constitution.
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Right, thank the founders for having foresight. He would need Congress to pass some consolidation package like Turkey did, and even then it would not pass judicial review. Trump will continue to use the bully pulpit to sell snake oil and lower the international opinion of the U.S. But, doomsday predictions of a dictator, "OMG he's worse than POLPOT", are definitely an overreach, no matter how abundant those types of comments are on the web.
 
Winston said:
Right, thank the founders for having foresight. He would need Congress to pass some consolidation package like Turkey did, and even then it would not pass judicial review. Trump will continue to use the bully pulpit to sell snake oil and lower the international opinion of the U.S. But, doomsday predictions of a dictator, "OMG he's worse than POLPOT", are definitely an overreach, no matter how abundant those types of comments are on the web.
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Indeed it is. But some people have been that histrionic since the election.

As bad as Trump is, it's still possible to be hysterical about him. Thinking he's going to destroy our democracy is an example.
 
Parrish said:
IF the GOP's HC proposals are so great and Republicans are brave enough to hold town halls we'll see how many of their constituents support their plan. So far, the ACA is still favored.
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You may as well be saying "The sky is blue and pizza tastes good"; that'd be as relevant to my post and the assertion it was countering as what you just typed.

Whether or not the GOP's HC proposals are great or a giant sack of **** is irrelevant as to whether or not the ACA is "more popular than ever".

Whether or not the GOP are choosing to hold town halls in no way changes that a poll about the Senate health care bill doesn't indicate factual support for the ACA.

Whether or not the ACA is favored over the senate bill is irrelevant as to whether or not the ACA is more "popular than ever".
 
Per the Town Halls and polls, support is for the ACA.

Let's see what support the GOP plan has when there are Town Halls during their vacay.
 
JamesBY said:
https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/ August 2, 2017

Public Approval of Health Care Law Economist/YouGov For/Favor 50, Against/Oppose 43 For/Favor +7

The 43% includes about 40% of that who favor improving the law, making Americans about 2 of 3 in keeping ACA or improving it.
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1. That's not the most popular it's been

2. While normally RCP is on the ball, go into the actual poll. Here's the breakdown of support:

Strongly approve 22%
Somewhat approve 25%
Somewhat disapprove 14%
Strongly disapprove 28%
Not sure 11%

Note, 22% + 25% is 47% not 50%. I'm not sure where RCP was getting their "50%" from, but it's not in the poll they linked to.

Third, the issue with the YouGov poll in trying to claim it's "more popular than ever" is the fact there's only three entries on RCP's index for it, showing no real ability to compare it to anything before. For example, PPP is down from 1 from it's last poll, down 9 from March, and isn't much different than what it's been in numerous years dating back to 2013.

Overall, it'd be arguable to suggest that the public view on the ACA has improved recently, but there's been other high water points when talking about it's all time high.
 
Parrish said:
Per the Town Halls and polls, support is for the ACA.

Let's see what support the GOP plan has when there are Town Halls during their vacay.
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Likely it will be abysmal support. Democrats are aligned almost universally against it. Meanwhile, Republicans are basically split in three directions: those who dislike what it does dismantle in the ACA, those who feel it doesn't do nearly enough to dismantle the ACA, and those who and those who support it.

Pretty much universal hatred of it from one side, and 2/3rds of the other side also essentially hating it? Yeah, it's a recipe for an absolute disaster. Especially combined with the fact that a large amount of the Republicans in congress arrived there on the backs of promises of a full repeal of the Law, making the notion of a compromise far more difficult to swallow by them OR their constituents due to the political realities of it.

But again, if you say you can either shoot me in the head or kick me in the nuts and I go "I totally don't want to be shot in the head"....that's not evidence that I enjoy, like, or WANT to be kicked in the nuts. It just means of the two current options you're forcing upon me, it's the preferable one at that moment.
 
Zyphlin said:
Likely it will be abysmal support. Democrats are aligned almost universally against it. Meanwhile, Republicans are basically split in three directions: those who dislike what it does dismantle in the ACA, those who feel it doesn't do nearly enough to dismantle the ACA, and those who and those who support it.

Pretty much universal hatred of it from one side, and 2/3rds of the other side also essentially hating it? Yeah, it's a recipe for an absolute disaster. Especially combined with the fact that a large amount of the Republicans in congress arrived there on the backs of promises of a full repeal of the Law, making the notion of a compromise far more difficult to swallow by them OR their constituents due to the political realities of it.

But again, if you say you can either shoot me in the head or kick me in the nuts and I go "I totally don't want to be shot in the head"....that's not evidence that I enjoy, like, or WANT to be kicked in the nuts. It just means of the two current options you're forcing upon me, it's the preferable one at that moment.
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Guns and nuts.. If you could have worked in the wall, you would have had a trifecta.Thanks for your man 'splaining.
 
Zyphlin said:
Honestly, one of the best things that could come out of a Trump presidency would be a bipartisan reduction of Presidential powers, so long as it actually remains stripped away for a good bit of time post Trump.
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Yes indeed. They need to get that stuff passed while the memory is fresh. Trump could end up being good for something after all.
 
JamesBY said:
That was an important reason but not a necessary one.
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If you said it was an important reason but not the only one I would agree with that

But there are limits to just how two-faced some RINO's can be on their campaign promises and get away with it
 
Rogue Valley said:
President Trump's strong-arm tactics backfire in Senate, experts say



The [pseudo] GOP President Trump expected the GOP Congress to jump through his mandatory hoops of praise like his groveling Cabinet.

:rofl
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Strong arm tactics?? What strong arm tactics? Trump hasn't threatened Congress with anything except to make them pay for their own Obamacare. Does anyone consider THAT "strong arm tactics"?

From what I've seen, Trump has been very laid back in how he treats Congress. He tells the people that they are not doing their job. He asks them to do their job. That's about it.

The way I see it, he knows they won't support any of his agenda...the agenda the people elected him for. He seems willing to leave it up to the people to deal with Congress. Whether that works remains to be seen.

I have to judge that article to be nothing but spin and hyperbole.

REJECTED!
 
MTAtech said:
That's why Only 12% of Americans support the Senate health care plan.

The reality is that the ACA has never been more popular until the Republicans tried to take it away.

Zyphlin said:
There's been recent polls about the ACA?

Because you do understand that one thing doesn't necessarily mean the other as you just describe. I.E., it's quite possible to both be opposed to the Senate Health Care Plan AND be opposed to the ACA? The fact that the Senate bill is unpopular is not evidence to factually claim the ACA is.
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Obamacare tops 50 percent popularity among Americans for first time in new poll, after Senate unveils bill to gut health-care law
 
Mycroft said:
Strong arm tactics?? What strong arm tactics? Trump hasn't threatened Congress with anything except to make them pay for their own Obamacare. Does anyone consider THAT "strong arm tactics"?

From what I've seen, Trump has been very laid back in how he treats Congress. He tells the people that they are not doing their job. He asks them to do their job. That's about it.

The way I see it, he knows they won't support any of his agenda...the agenda the people elected him for. He seems willing to leave it up to the people to deal with Congress. Whether that works remains to be seen.

I have to judge that article to be nothing but spin and hyperbole.

REJECTED!
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No strong arm tactics, huh? Maybe you missed these:

Trump threatens electoral consequences for senators who oppose health bill

Trump administration threatens to retaliate against Alaska for GOP senator's Obamacare repeal vote, news site reports

Trump Threatens Congress' Health Care; Senate Republicans Don't Seem Too Worried

The people didn't elect Trump to throw 23 million Americans off of health insurance. Trump said during the campaign that his plan would be better, cheaper, cover more people, etc. The plan he supported was nothing like that.

The people didn't elect Trump to gut environmental regulations and make their air and water polluted. They didn't vote to allow pesticides on crops that Obama banned, because they harm children's brains.

We must also remember that more of "the people" voted for Hillary Clinton than Trump and Trump is only president because of narrow winnings in certain states that voted for him because they believed the false premise that their jobs were going to Mexico and that immigrants are taking their jobs. The fact that the nation has been in roughly full-employment since Obama's last year undercuts that myth. Trump also got voters because of identity politics that has them think that they aren't beneficiaries of government money -- and all the good programs are only going to "those people."
 
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MTAtech said:
No strong arm tactics, huh? Maybe you missed these:

Trump threatens electoral consequences for senators who oppose health bill

Trump administration threatens to retaliate against Alaska for GOP senator's Obamacare repeal vote, news site reports

Trump Threatens Congress' Health Care; Senate Republicans Don't Seem Too Worried

The people didn't elect Trump to throw 23 million Americans off of health insurance. Trump said during the campaign that his plan would be better, cheaper, cover more people, etc. The plan he supported was nothing like that.

The people didn't elect Trump to gut environmental regulations and make their air and water polluted. They didn't vote to allow pesticides on crops that Obama banned, because they harm children's brains.

We must also remember that more of "the people" voted for Hillary Clinton than Trump and Trump is only president because of narrow winnings in certain states that voted for him because they believed the false premise that their jobs were going to Mexico and that immigrants are taking their jobs. The fact that the nation has been in roughly full-employment since Obama's last year undercuts that myth. Trump also got voters because of identity politics that has them think that they aren't beneficiaries of government money -- and all the good programs are only going to "those people."
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People didn't elect Trump because of your hyperbole. And in case you haven't heard yet...the popular vote don't mean ****.

I will concede the Alaska thing. The other two...one I mentioned, the other I alluded to. Still not much in the way of strong arm tactics, though. He COULD do more...but hasn't.
 
Mac77 said:
The republicans won based on the promise to repeal obamacare
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Some Republicans have admitted they did not expect to win the Pres election. So they could make empty and as many dumb ass promises as they wished to.
 
MTAtech said:
The people didn't elect Trump to throw 23 million Americans off of health insurance. Trump said during the campaign that his plan would be better, cheaper, cover more people, etc. The plan he supported was nothing like that.
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Which is why I think DJT really has no idea what is in the legislation he promotes.
He just comes across as some sort of cartoonish cheerleader.
 
JANFU said:
Some Republicans have admitted they did not expect to win the Pres election. So they could make empty and as many dumb ass promises as they wished to.
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What they won't admit - and this does not apply to all elected republicans but many - is that they are politically asexual and just want to remain in washington any way they can

And at any cost to the citizens
 
Moderate Right said:
Nonsense. The health bill wasn't going to pass anyway. Trump tried strong arming them and ultimately it didn't work, but it didn't backfire because they weren't going to vote for it anyway.
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It did backfire because it exposed how weak President Pansy is, and that even republicans do not take him and his threats seriously.
 
Moderate Right said:
Nonsense. The health bill wasn't going to pass anyway. Trump tried strong arming them and ultimately it didn't work, but it didn't backfire because they weren't going to vote for it anyway.
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You don't usually reserve strong-arm tactics for bills that are going to pass anyway. You use them precisely when legislation is going down without strong intervention.
 
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