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Health Care Vote: Senate Rejects Repeal Without Replace

Cardinal

Cardinal

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The Senate on Wednesday rejected a measure that would have repealed major parts of the Affordable Care Act but would not have provided a replacement, signaling that the “clean repeal” bill that conservatives have embraced cannot get through Congress.

Continue reading the main story
The vote, 45-55, underscored the bind that Republican leaders have found themselves in. Seven Republicans voted against the measure — Senators Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia, Susan Collins of Maine, Dean Heller of Nevada, John McCain of Arizona, Rob Portman of Ohio, Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — showing that repealing the health law without an immediate replacement lacks crucial support among Republicans.

But a more comprehensive measure that would have repealed major parts of the law with a ready replacement also came up short on Tuesday night.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html

At this point the only conceivable reason for Republicans to continue pushing for repeal and a bill that harms their own constituencies and enjoys a whopping 17% approval is to appease Trump. However, it's time for Republicans to concede that they don't have ideas for how to improve healthcare. They've conceded the debate by demonstrating that their best idea is actually Obamacare, but less of it, a lot crappier, and in a way that spikes premiums and kicks millions of people off of insurance. And of course massive cuts to medicaid for reasons that I'm sure Voldemort could explain if given the opportunity.

It's important to remember that Trump is a man who has expressed precisely zero curiosity in how healthcare as a whole works, has never known any of the details of the various bills, and he seems to have believed that health insurance was life insurance this entire time. In all this time he hasn't even bothered to learn how to fake talking about healthcare. Therefore I have a proposal to Republicans in congress: leave the Capital and cross the street to an Outback Steakhouse. Grab a menu. Return to your office in the Capital and print out the menu on nice Congressional stock paper. When Congress is in session, replace the BCRA with the menu when McConnell isn't looking. Vote on the "bill" and pass it, then give it to Trump so he can sign it and claim victory. We liberals will pretend to be mortified and outraged because, let's be honest here, that's all Republicans really care about anyway.

EVERYBODY WINS.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html

At this point the only conceivable reason for Republicans to continue pushing for repeal and a bill that harms their own constituencies and enjoys a whopping 17% approval is to appease Trump. However, it's time for Republicans to concede that they don't have ideas for how to improve healthcare. They've conceded the debate by demonstrating that their best idea is actually Obamacare, but less of it, a lot crappier, and in a way that spikes premiums and kicks millions of people off of insurance. And of course massive cuts to medicaid for reasons that I'm sure Voldemort could explain if given the opportunity.

It's important to remember that Trump is a man who has expressed precisely zero curiosity in how healthcare as a whole works, has never known any of the details of the various bills, and he seems to have believed that health insurance was life insurance this entire time. In all this time he hasn't even bothered to learn how to fake talking about healthcare. Therefore I have a proposal to Republicans in congress: leave the Capital and cross the street to an Outback Steakhouse. Grab a menu. Return to your office in the Capital and print out the menu on nice Congressional stock paper. When Congress is in session, replace the BCRA with the menu when McConnell isn't looking. Vote on the "bill" and pass it, then give it to Trump so he can sign it and claim victory. We liberals will pretend to be mortified and outraged because, let's be honest here, that's all Republicans really care about anyway.

EVERYBODY WINS.
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I approve of this proposal.
 
Jetboogieman said:
I disapprove on the basis that I don't need no foreign kangaroo lovers at Outback Steakhouse telling us how to run our healthcare.

Murca 1Th!
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Taking you seriously response: I doubt there are many, if any, Australians working at outback steakhouse.
 
The Mark said:
Taking you seriously response: I doubt there are many, if any, Australians working at outback steakhouse.
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My life has been a lie.
 
The Mark said:
Taking you seriously response: I doubt there are many, if any, Australians working at outback steakhouse.
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Yah know dude since we're talking about this, I visited this "Irish Pub" in Vegas a few years back and was surprised to find that the waitress was Irish, or so it would appear, now her accent did sound a little off, asked her where she was from, she replied Cork but it just didn't sound right being from the British Isles and all, turns out they allegedly have the staff put on the accent and have a thin backstory.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html

At this point the only conceivable reason for Republicans to continue pushing for repeal and a bill that harms their own constituencies and enjoys a whopping 17% approval is to appease Trump. However, it's time for Republicans to concede that they don't have ideas for how to improve healthcare. They've conceded the debate by demonstrating that their best idea is actually Obamacare, but less of it, a lot crappier, and in a way that spikes premiums and kicks millions of people off of insurance. And of course massive cuts to medicaid for reasons that I'm sure Voldemort could explain if given the opportunity.

It's important to remember that Trump is a man who has expressed precisely zero curiosity in how healthcare as a whole works, has never known any of the details of the various bills, and he seems to have believed that health insurance was life insurance this entire time. In all this time he hasn't even bothered to learn how to fake talking about healthcare. Therefore I have a proposal to Republicans in congress: leave the Capital and cross the street to an Outback Steakhouse. Grab a menu. Return to your office in the Capital and print out the menu on nice Congressional stock paper. When Congress is in session, replace the BCRA with the menu when McConnell isn't looking. Vote on the "bill" and pass it, then give it to Trump so he can sign it and claim victory. We liberals will pretend to be mortified and outraged because, let's be honest here, that's all Republicans really care about anyway.

EVERYBODY WINS.
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Well, depending on where you live, there are double digit increases coming to a kitchen table near you. Americans will love the new higher premiums! Why change anything? American is all grins about Obamacare.

I'm not convinced.
 
chuckiechan said:
Well, depending on where you live, there are double digit increases coming to a kitchen table near you. Americans will love the new higher premiums! Why change anything? American is all grins about Obamacare.

I'm not convinced.
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100% increase with repeal, 20% with the BCRA.
 
chuckiechan said:
Well, depending on where you live, there are double digit increases coming to a kitchen table near you. Americans will love the new higher premiums! Why change anything? American is all grins about Obamacare.

I'm not convinced.
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ACA/Obamacare has issues.

Rather than proposing something that can improve on it, they republicans proposed a bill that makes things worse.

Either they're idiots, or they want to make the healthcare situation in the USA worse.
 
chuckiechan said:
Well, depending on where you live, there are double digit increases coming to a kitchen table near you.
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Double digit increases in 2018 are the Trump Effect.

BCBS in TN is the quintessential example:

Key Takeaways

  • Our 2017 rates are allowing us to earn a margin (profit) for the first time in four years and would have enabled us to propose only a small increase for 2018 to cover expected changes in medical and operating costs.
  • However, we have to factor in two significant uncertainties – whether the federal government will fund cost-sharing reductions for low-income members and how the risk pool will change if the coverage mandate is not enforced.
  • We are requesting state approval for an average rate increase of 21 percent, but what members pay will vary based on their region, age, income level and plan type.
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How federal uncertainties are affecting 2018 rates

Medical costs continue to rise, and we’re facing additional taxes for this line of business, but our experience so far in 2017 means we would have only needed a small average rate increase.

However, we have to account for two significant uncertainties at the federal level:

  • Whether the federal government will guarantee funding for the cost-sharing reduction (CSR) program
  • How the risk pool might change if the individual coverage mandate isn’t enforced

BCBST2018RatesInfographic_FV-1.jpg
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If you're facing a double digit increase next year, thank Trump and the Congressional GOP.
 
Obama used illegal funding that had to be ended. No one ever voted to authorize those payments. That is your "uncertainty".

Obama threw a turd on the nation saying in effect, Here. I gave it to you, now it's omeone else's problem to find a way to pay for it!"

It's the practical joke of the century. It's best to let it die of natural causes, and repurpose it as "medical welfare", and let the private sector keep insuring its employees so you are on one program or the other.
 
chuckiechan said:
Obama used illegal funding that had to be ended.
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...they haven't ended. The Trump administration just confirmed last week this month's payment will be made (apparently illegally in your view!), as the six before it this year have been.

The uncertainty is this month-to-month BS and Trump using these payments to browbeat insurers. That's why premiums are going up next year. As I said, thank Trump and the GOP Congress.
 
Greenbeard said:
...they haven't ended. The Trump administration just confirmed last week this month's payment will be made (apparently illegally in your view!), as the six before it this year have been.

The uncertainty is this month-to-month BS and Trump using these payments to browbeat insurers. That's why premiums are going up next year. As I said, thank Trump and the GOP Congress.
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Yes he is. Did you expect him to just end it? They need to get funding correct for it to continue, and I understand tax reform includes remedies.
 
Cardinal said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/health-care-senate-vote.html

At this point the only conceivable reason for Republicans to continue pushing for repeal and a bill that harms their own constituencies and enjoys a whopping 17% approval is to appease Trump. However, it's time for Republicans to concede that they don't have ideas for how to improve healthcare. They've conceded the debate by demonstrating that their best idea is actually Obamacare, but less of it, a lot crappier, and in a way that spikes premiums and kicks millions of people off of insurance. And of course massive cuts to medicaid for reasons that I'm sure Voldemort could explain if given the opportunity.

It's important to remember that Trump is a man who has expressed precisely zero curiosity in how healthcare as a whole works, has never known any of the details of the various bills, and he seems to have believed that health insurance was life insurance this entire time. In all this time he hasn't even bothered to learn how to fake talking about healthcare. Therefore I have a proposal to Republicans in congress: leave the Capital and cross the street to an Outback Steakhouse. Grab a menu. Return to your office in the Capital and print out the menu on nice Congressional stock paper. When Congress is in session, replace the BCRA with the menu when McConnell isn't looking. Vote on the "bill" and pass it, then give it to Trump so he can sign it and claim victory. We liberals will pretend to be mortified and outraged because, let's be honest here, that's all Republicans really care about anyway.

EVERYBODY WINS.
Click to expand...

Maybe they will figure out the only solution is to sit down with the Democrats and hash out a workable healthcare plan, fixing the the areas where Obamacare falls short.

I bet against it happening. But, maybe...
 
chuckiechan said:
Yes he is. Did you expect him to just end it?
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His administration has indicated he can and will just end it any time he pleases. Hence the uncertainty.

Prior to that announcement last Wednesday, it was unknown whether insurers would be paid in July. That's why it was newsworthy.
 
Greenbeard said:
His administration has indicated he can and will just end it any time he pleases. Hence the uncertainty.

Prior to that announcement last Wednesday, it was unknown whether insurers would be paid in July. That's why it was newsworthy.
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Newsworthy or not, if the news media neglects to mention Trump is continuing to allow Obamas illegal funding until an alternative is reached, it does change the meaning of "The Trump Effect", from positive to negative, doesn't it?

So don't believe everything you read.
 
chuckiechan said:
Newsworthy or not, if the news media neglects to mention Trump is continuing to allow Obamas illegal funding until an alternative is reached, it does change the meaning of "The Trump Effect", from positive to negative, doesn't it?

So don't believe everything you read.
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Trump and the GOP's unwillingness to commit to funding these subsidies is driving up premiums by double digits next year. In some places, it's driven insurers out of markets entirely (e.g., Anthem in some of the Great Lakes states and Nevada). Anthem just reiterated today that they're going to pull out of more markets if they don't get some confidence that Trump and the GOP will keep funding the CSRs.

Insurance giant Anthem, which has already withdrawn from the Obamacare marketplaces in three states, will pull out of more if the federal government doesn’t take action soon to stabilize the market, CEO Joseph Swedish told investors Wednesday.

The biggest area of uncertainty is whether Washington will continue to reimburse insurers for lowering deductibles and co-payments for lower-income customers. Those cost-sharing subsidies were created by the Affordable Care Act but the Trump administration has not committed to continuing them and congressional Republicans are pushing legislation to end them.
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Trump is driving premiums up and insurers out. That's the Trump Effect.
 
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Greenbeard said:
Trump and the GOP's unwillingness to commit to funding these subsidies is driving up premiums by double digits next year. In some places, it's driven insurers out of markets entirely (e.g., Anthem in some of the Great Lakes states and Nevada). Anthem just reiterated today that they're going to pull out of more markets if they don't get some confidence that Trump and the GOP will keep funding the CSRs.



Trump is driving premiums up and insurers out. That's the Trump Effect.
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Obama never authorized the federal government to bail out insurance companies forever.
 
Yow!

CBO just scored the Skinny Repeal at tossing 43M off their insurance! :shock:

Every iteration they bring forth raises the number of uninsured.

This is pretty amazing.
 
chuckiechan said:
Read it. I did. There is nothing about how the federal government funds it.
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That's an appropriation question, not an authorization question. The spending is clearly authorized in the law. If Congress disagrees with the administration that the executive branch can pay for them (oddly enough, Congress hit pause on its legal challenges on that front as soon as Obama left office), it's free to appropriate funds for the CSRs specifically.

The point is that the CSRs need to remain funded and the industry needs a clear signal that's going to be the case. Otherwise the Trump Effect will continue and people will suffer needlessly.
 
Greenbeard said:
That's an appropriation question, not an authorization question. The spending is clearly authorized in the law. If Congress disagrees with the administration that the executive branch can pay for them (oddly enough, Congress hit pause on its legal challenges on that front as soon as Obama left office), it's free to appropriate funds for the CSRs specifically.

The point is that the CSRs need to remain funded and the industry needs a clear signal that's going to be the case. Otherwise the Trump Effect will continue and people will suffer needlessly.
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Obama funded with an E.O. That funding is still in effect since Trump hasn't ended it. But eventually it has to be dealt with properly.

BTW, do you have some examples of someone who has actually "suffered"?
 
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