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Britain bans gasoline and diesel cars starting in 2040

I think this is a short sighted plan on their part, as it is picking electric cars a winner
to the exclusion of other technologies.
 
longview said:
Actually it is fairly easy to carry hydrogen, as long as you store it in a liquid hydrocarbon fuel.
A reformer can split off the hydrogen as needed.
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Easier just to use a fuel cell that can handle natural gas rather than go through the process of converting natural gas or gas to hydrogen when it is in the car
 
prometeus said:
Yes all these issues do exist for now, much the same way battery capacity, etc. existed for the electric cars in the beginning. My belief is for the more distant future and I think that the issues you mention can be solved. Of course this is just my belief at this time and time will tell.
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They are already solved but at a higher cost than current alternatives

The main benefit of hydrogen fuel cells should be the efficiency of them (which I expect should be at 80% of the potential energy converted into electrical energy. The best gas engine is at just over 40% for conversion into usable energy for a car
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Easier just to use a fuel cell that can handle natural gas rather than go through the process of converting natural gas or gas to hydrogen when it is in the car
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I think the bloom box still does a reformer step, it just does so in a single step.
What Is A Fuel Cell - How Does A Fuel Cell Work | Bloom Energy
They speak of reformed fuel, the cell is hot enough to break the hydrogen off the carbon.
I think fuel cell electrics have a good chance, aircraft look even better.
 
brothern said:
You've missed the point - What I'm saying is that there's so much solar radiation being passed to the Earth that collecting just 0.0001% of it would far surpass the energy requirements of 7.5 billion people.

It's not a "good amount" of energy ... it's more energy than the human mind is reasonably able to visualize.
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It is a good amount of energy, any when we can learn to collect it and store it efficiently, we'll be able to make better and better use of it. Though we will make some toxic lakes in places mining for all the materials to make solar cells from, lol.
 
poweRob said:
As things go more electric I think the competition for battery production will heat up to crazy levels and we will finally see big strides. That's my prediciton.
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Either that or the need for them will be so great that we'll just ignore the massive environmental harm they create because the necessity out-weighs the harm. Essentially, e-cars are a method of moving the pollution from the cities to isolated areas where the damage doesn't have to be seen. Power generation moves to places where people don't have to see it, resources for batteries get mined in 3rd world nations where the gov'ts just ignore the death toll. All in the name of not having to see the damage in front of us every day.
 
Ikari said:
That's assuming

A) 100% collection efficiency
B) We **** over plants

lol

No, the sun does have a lot of potential to provide a good amount of energy, we still need advancements to make it better. And in terms of things such as solar and wind, particular advancements in battery tech because peak production may not always coincide with peak consumption.

Also solar cells require rather toxic elements. Currently we strip mine India & China for a lot of (that and touch screen materials).
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pffftt... Who needs all that silly food when he have cars that run on sunshine...
 
faithful_servant said:
Either that or the need for them will be so great that we'll just ignore the massive environmental harm they create because the necessity out-weighs the harm. Essentially, e-cars are a method of moving the pollution from the cities to isolated areas where the damage doesn't have to be seen. Power generation moves to places where people don't have to see it, resources for batteries get mined in 3rd world nations where the gov'ts just ignore the death toll. All in the name of not having to see the damage in front of us every day.
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It's just so funny that all these right wing conservatives become massive eco-warriors anytime there is a thread about change from the current status quo. It's oh so convenient. :lol:
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The national infrastructure required to make all electric cars viable I doubt will be in place by that time. From the increase in electrical generation, to various charging stations for those travelling intercity

The cost to the car makers which is especially important to Germany compared to the UK with 3 major world manufacturers based in Germany. That cost could drive one or more of those companies out of business.

In my opinion an outright ban will be especially harmful to Germany's economy
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The UK is much smaller than the US.

I imagine the UK is pretty ideal for electric cars. You can't go that far without hitting some kind of city.
 
prometeus said:
Hey I still have one in full operating condition with quite a number of tapes. It is great nostalgic value.
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My point exactly!
 
Nilly said:
The UK is much smaller than the US.

I imagine the UK is pretty ideal for electric cars. You can't go that far without hitting some kind of city.
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It also has a mild climate, not very cold not very hot. So the drain on the battery will be lower (less heat and and less AC required). For longer distances the train is also a reasonable option
 
faithful_servant said:
Either that or the need for them will be so great that we'll just ignore the massive environmental harm they create because the necessity out-weighs the harm. Essentially, e-cars are a method of moving the pollution from the cities to isolated areas where the damage doesn't have to be seen. Power generation moves to places where people don't have to see it, resources for batteries get mined in 3rd world nations where the gov'ts just ignore the death toll. All in the name of not having to see the damage in front of us every day.
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Ikari said:
It is a good amount of energy, any when we can learn to collect it and store it efficiently, we'll be able to make better and better use of it. Though we will make some toxic lakes in places mining for all the materials to make solar cells from, lol.
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Neither the energy storage, nor the rare earths minerals limitations should be that much of a concern long term. Both large capacity energy storage and non-rare earth solar cells technology already exist ... in the lab, at least. It's not like nuclear fusion technology which is buried deep in the theoretical stages.

It's certainly a massive operational problem in that it'll take decade, many failed attempts and some b, billion dollars to get that technology into the real world.

However people that are my age are not going to be seeing toxic lakes and strip-mined developing nations when we're in our middle age.
 
OlNate said:
Fake news, fossile fuel will never die, fake news!!




;)
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The Institute for Energy Research projects that Fossil Fuels will power as much as 80 percent of our energy needs in 2040

Page Not Found - IER

The US isnt Britain, ( thank God ). England is a small Island Nation which makes converting over to Electric cars feasible, but people should still have a choice whether or not they want to purchase a Electric Car.

Other European Nations like Germany are a cautionary tale when it comes to forcing repretens on their citizens under thecitizense of AGW

Merkel foolsihly shut down her Nuke plants and with massive consumer and Govt subsidies built solar plants and wind generator farms.

Germans pay 300 percent more than Americans for Electricty and Germany has just cut off green energy subsidies.
 
poweRob said:
It's just so funny that all these right wing conservatives become massive eco-warriors anytime there is a thread about change from the current status quo. It's oh so convenient. :lol:
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Most conservatives I know are very concerned about protecting the environment. We just look at the solutions from a different perspective than you do. We want things done the right way for the right reasons, liberals will do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. All you have to do is look at the massive damage that so much of our western forests have suffered under due to environmental regs. that liberals forced on the timber industry. Where we once had vast acreage of productive forests, employing hundreds of thousands of people, we now have vast tracts that are sick and over-grown. The timber receipts that used to fund rural schools across the country have slowed to a trickle. Places that were once incredibly beautiful are now vistas of burned out trees. We now have also pushed a huge chunk of our timber production to 3rd world countries that use horrific logging techniques. Had stupid people not been allowed to make these decisions and professionals been the ones in charge of them, we would have more jobs, more trees, healthier forests and less damage to sensitive forests in 3rd world countries. The dimwit liberals who claimed to be saving the forests have done more damage to them than anyone EVER.

Here's what the Santiam Pass looks like today:
santiam 2.jpg
Do you see all that dead timber? That's ALL at the hands of liberals who thought that they were saving the forest. For YEARS, timber cos. had been begging to log that area,since it was grossly over-grown and infested with a number of diseases and insects. But LIBERALS stopped it. Then, after it burned and the same timber cos. were begging to salvage and replant that area, it was LIBERALS who stopped it. All that dead could be new trees growing, providing habitat, jobs, clean air and more the incredible beauty that Oregon has in abundance. Instead, it's wasteland of dead and dying trees, on top of a massive fuel load of dead material, just waiting for the spark that will ignite B&B Complex #2. Liberals don't care about the environment, they only care about being seen as caring for the environment.
 

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brothern said:
Neither the energy storage, nor the rare earths minerals limitations should be that much of a concern long term. Both large capacity energy storage and non-rare earth solar cells technology already exist ... in the lab, at least. It's not like nuclear fusion technology which is buried deep in the theoretical stages.

It's certainly a massive operational problem in that it'll take decade, many failed attempts and some b, billion dollars to get that technology into the real world.

However people that are my age are not going to be seeing toxic lakes and strip-mined developing nations when we're in our middle age.
Click to expand...

Just in 3rd world nations where you don't have to see it.
 
faithful_servant said:
Most conservatives I know are very concerned about protecting the environment. We just look at the solutions from a different perspective than you do. We want things done the right way for the right reasons, liberals will do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. All you have to do is look at the massive damage that so much of our western forests have suffered under due to environmental regs. that liberals forced on the timber industry. Where we once had vast acreage of productive forests, employing hundreds of thousands of people, we now have vast tracts that are sick and over-grown. The timber receipts that used to fund rural schools across the country have slowed to a trickle. Places that were once incredibly beautiful are now vistas of burned out trees. We now have also pushed a huge chunk of our timber production to 3rd world countries that use horrific logging techniques. Had stupid people not been allowed to make these decisions and professionals been the ones in charge of them, we would have more jobs, more trees, healthier forests and less damage to sensitive forests in 3rd world countries. The dimwit liberals who claimed to be saving the forests have done more damage to them than anyone EVER.

Here's what the Santiam Pass looks like today:
View attachment 67220557
Do you see all that dead timber? That's ALL at the hands of liberals who thought that they were saving the forest. For YEARS, timber cos. had been begging to log that area,since it was grossly over-grown and infested with a number of diseases and insects. But LIBERALS stopped it. Then, after it burned and the same timber cos. were begging to salvage and replant that area, it was LIBERALS who stopped it. All that dead could be new trees growing, providing habitat, jobs, clean air and more the incredible beauty that Oregon has in abundance. Instead, it's wasteland of dead and dying trees, on top of a massive fuel load of dead material, just waiting for the spark that will ignite B&B Complex #2. Liberals don't care about the environment, they only care about being seen as caring for the environment.
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Then why do you all vote for fools that want to destroy the EPA, while applauding trump allowing coal to dump more waste into streams while Bush raised the legal level of arsenic in water?

Your words don't match your vote.
 
prometeus said:
This is not a religion.
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stop behaving like a cult then

Right, because remaining ignorant and ****ing up the environment is so great.
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nice excuse for forcing people to convert. your no better than the people who follow the evanglists that predict the world will end on such n such date and then when that date arrives they just insert a new revised date. Not one of these climate predictions have been right yet but this time they got it and theres no debating it because its SCIENCE.

If you want to bolieve in that go ahead just like the other religions are free to worship thier dieties. What none of you are entitled to do, is force your beliefs on the rest of us.



Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
poweRob said:
That's a commitment for sure. I can understand Britain's concern for air pollution since their coal disaster in the 1950's that killed so many people and impaired so many more.

Good on them.

Britain bans gasoline and diesel cars starting in 2040

Britain will ban sales of new gasoline and diesel cars starting in 2040 as part of a bid to clean up the country's air.

The decision to phase out the internal combustion engine heralds a new era of low-emission technologies with major implications for the auto industry, society and the environment.
"We can't carry on with diesel and petrol cars," U.K. environment secretary Michael Gove told the BBC on Wednesday. "There is no alternative to embracing new technology."

Almost 2.7 million new cars were registered in the U.K. in 2016, making it the second biggest market in Europe after Germany.

Meeting the 2040 deadline will be a heavy lift. British demand for electric and fuel cell cars, as well as plug-in hybrids, grew 40% in 2015, but they only accounted for less than 3% of the market.

Still, experts say sales of clean cars are likely to continue on their dramatic upward trajectory.​
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Invest in Ballard Fuel Cells. Hydrogen is the fuel, the exhaust is water.
BLDP on Nasdaq and TSX.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The national infrastructure required to make all electric cars viable I doubt will be in place by that time. From the increase in electrical generation, to various charging stations for those travelling intercity

The cost to the car makers which is especially important to Germany compared to the UK with 3 major world manufacturers based in Germany. That cost could drive one or more of those companies out of business.

In my opinion an outright ban will be especially harmful to Germany's economy
Click to expand...

I doubt all electric cars will ever be viable so they will have to go with hybrids.

I wonder if that falls under the ban.

I wonder if the Prius is on the chopping block.
 
brothern said:
The Earth is being hit with petawatts of energy from the sun. If a coal power plant is 100 MW that's 1,000,000,000 MWs that the sun is shining on us.

The wiki puts it this way,

The amount of solar energy reaching the surface of the planet is so vast that in one year [solar radiation] is about twice as much as will ever be obtained from all of the Earth's non-renewable resources of coal, oil, natural gas, and mined uranium combined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_energy

That is why solar & wind is so incredibly key for us to use. (Solar energy is why the wind blows.)
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I don't want to drive around with a wind generating fan on the top of me car.
 
Ikari said:
There's lots of pie-in-the-sky sorts of things, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the end. I think certain things can be regulated well enough, but you do have big polluters in various forms of energy production. Right now it's gas and coal as their big guys (each about 30%), which natural gas can be a fairly clean source.

But battery tech is the pits, we have the worst of it. And the chemicals that go into batteries...takes a lot of mining in China. Before "all electric" can really be realized, we need to make large advancements in battery tech and energy production means.
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An all electric car will never work in places like Texas or Australia where you can drive for a day and not get to your destination.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Hydrogen fuel cells might work but have a few issues

Storage of hydrogen is not easy or cheap, the hydrogen I expect going by memory will over time degrade the storage vessel (as it does to natural gas pipelines)

Secondly it is of a more explosive nature than gasoline and or diesel. Propane fueled cars are often banned from going into underground parking lots due to leaks while gas vehicles present a far lower risk
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everything has issues attached to them. Some of the unintended consequences are not even being considered yet.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
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