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Kushner contradicts Trump team's denials of Russia contacts

iguanaman

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I'm sure there will be yet another display of Trumpmania when it is pointed out that Trump's son-in-law has made him a liar along with V.P. Pence and a horde of other trumpettes. But really... are you just going to let this one go too? Is lying the symbol you want representing the U.S. ?


Washington (CNN)For nearly a year, President Donald Trump and several of his top advisers have repeatedly denied that there was any contact between members of the Trump campaign and individuals tied to the Russian government. But the veracity of that story appears to be crumbling under contradictory revelations from the President's son, son-in-law and the current attorney general.

Trump, Vice President Mike Pence, White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, White House spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders, former White House press secretary Sean Spicer, Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks and former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort have all previously denied that there were any contacts or ties between the Trump campaign and Russian government officials or Russians trying to meddle in the election.
Trump has routinely called the Russia story "fake news" and a "witch hunt."

Kushner contradicts Trump team's denials of Russia contacts - CNNPolitics.com
 
I'm sure there will be yet another display of Trumpmania when it is pointed out that Trump's son-in-law has made him a liar along with V.P. Pence and a horde of other trumpettes. But really... are you just going to let this one go too? Is lying the symbol you want representing the U.S. ?

Kushner contradicts Trump team's denials of Russia contacts - CNNPolitics.com

Contact with Russians does not mean "Russia" meetings.

From the article:

Kushner confirmed that he had "perhaps" four encounters with Russians during the 2016 campaign and transition in the 11-page statement but insisted that he discussed nothing improper during those meetings.

Trump Jr's "meeting" was with "Russians" (one of whom is a naturalized citizen) trying to represent adoption interests but pretending to have inside information about Hillary's corrupt dealings in Russia.

Session's has admitted meetings with Russian government representatives...as part of his job as a Senator. Has this story changed? :unsure13:

Kushner is trying to comply with transparency requirements; probably initiated by Trump himself, frustrated by Progressive-Left mudslinging attempts to prove he was in league with the Russians.

Again, guilt by association as they try to comply with transparency demands...yet if they didn't you'd be crying intentional hiding too as leakers pulled contacts these people didn't think important out of their pasts.

More damned if they do or don't, no matter what they do. :roll:
 
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Contact with Russians does not mean "Russia" meetings.

From the article:



Trump Jr's "meeting" was with "Russians" (one of whom is a naturalized citizen) trying to represent adoption interests but pretending to have inside information about Hillary's corrupt dealings in Russia.

Session's has admitted meetings with Russian government representatives...as part of his job as a Senator. Has this story changed? :unsure13:

Kushner is trying to comply with transparency requirements; probably initiated by Trump himself, frustrated by Progressive-Left mudslinging attempts to prove he was in league with the Russians.

Again, guilt by association as they try to comply with transparency demands...yet if they didn't you'd be crying intentional hiding too as leakers pulled contacts these people didn't think important out of their pasts.

More damned if they do or don't, no matter what they do. :roll:

Sorry Cap. There were three other meetings and Trump held two meetings with Putin personally and without Americans present. That should bother you somewhat.
 
Sorry Cap. There were three other meetings and Trump held two meetings with Putin personally and without Americans present. That should bother you somewhat.

What really gets me is this doesn't trouble Trump supporters in the least. The blackmail factor alone would be a reason to have Americans present to contradict any propaganda Putin tries to put out. Leaders meet all the time, but they do so at the very least with either their national security or translators present. Twice Trump has done this without any American backup. In the least that is incompetent or willful negligence, at worse it could nefarious.
 
Sorry Cap. There were three other meetings and Trump held two meetings with Putin personally and without Americans present. That should bother you somewhat.

No, it doesn't bother me much. :shrug:

Presidents have often met with heads of foreign states privately to discuss matters of policy etc. without wanting the eyes and ears of every tom, dick, and newshound listening in.

The idea that unless everything is done in front of cameras and masses of witnesses it must of necessity be nefarious is a relatively new ideology, and one which has created the need for "backchannels" people are currently complaining about.

Meanwhile, even the Democrats admit that foreign dignitaries appear at various political functions to catch the ears of U.S. officials and candidates for office...and all deny that nefarious contacts occur.

I just found this old clip of Hillary's campaign manager admitting this, while also claiming those in the know (apparently not including him) state there were "no contacts" at such functions.



He admits "foreign dignitaries are often attending conventions and so on..." before he deflects into the typical narrative of how the Russians leaked damaging info about her campaign to help Trump.

Basically, just talking to Russians does not mean "Plotting" with Russians.

(Edit): Nor does it matter that some people, especially political novices like almost every member of the Trump "inner circle" might fail to consider (or even remember) every meeting they've ever had with foreigners of whatever stripe memorable enough to put on an SF 86, despite the current assumption that failing to do so is clear evidence of "collusion." :shrug:
 
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Trump Jr's "meeting" was with "Russians" (one of whom is a naturalized citizen) trying to represent adoption interests but pretending to ///
We have the emails, it says Clinton/Russia! (see link below) Hard evidence.
What do you have to show that it was *really* about adoption?
Here we have Trump supporters trusting Russian's 100%, and doubting our entire government as a deep state swamp...


Session's has admitted meetings with Russian government representatives...as part of his job as a Senator. Has this story changed? :unsure13:
Of course it's changed, it's the Trump administration.
Russia’s ambassador to Washington told his superiors in Moscow that he discussed campaign-related matters, including policy issues important to Moscow, with Jeff Sessions during the 2016 presidential race, contrary to public assertions by the embattled attorney general, according to current and former U.S. officials.


Captain Adverse said:
Kushner is trying to comply with transparency requirements; probably initiated by Trump himself, frustrated by Progressive-Left mudslinging attempts to prove he was in league with the Russians.
Trying? He omitted 100 names from his security forms!
And now he's using legally crafted written "speeches" to weave around the real questions currently.

Bull****. There is no damned if you do, damned if you don't.
None of them have come clean and laid it all on the table, they have been caught lying and misleading and obstructing EVERY SINGLE INCH of the way.

The have now lost trust/credibility, and obviously it would be STUPID to give them the benefit of the doubt, and not be 100% skeptical about their latest and greatest spinning of yarn.

Anyone can read the full emails here:
Read Full Emails of Donald Trump Jr. Setting Up Meeting With Russian Lawyer - NBC News

Subject: FW: Russia- Clinton - private and confidential

Shameful.
 
No, it doesn't bother me much. :shrug:

Presidents have often met with heads of foreign states privately to discuss matters of policy etc. without wanting the eyes and ears of every tom, dick, and newshound listening in.

The idea that unless everything is done in front of cameras and masses of witnesses it must of necessity be nefarious is a relatively new ideology, and one which has created the need for "backchannels" people are currently complaining about.

Meanwhile, even the Democrats admit that foreign dignitaries appear at various political functions to catch the ears of U.S. officials and candidates for office...and all deny that nefarious contacts occur.

You are not helping your claims of innocence here. Just because Democrats might do it doesn't mean that Republicans won't. You are being incredibly naive and trusting of a man who has banned on-camera press briefings and has personal investments with Russia. It makes no sense for Trump not to bring around his entourage or even his family to the meeting with Putin. I'd be comfortable if at least, Ivanka was in the room with him, because she seems to be the sanest member of that family!

You pointing to Democrats do it too, does not mean that Trump didn't and there were no reports about Obama meeting with Muslim leaders without any Americans present.
 
Presidents have often met with heads of foreign states privately to discuss matters of policy etc. without wanting the eyes and ears of every tom, dick, and newshound listening in.

No, it is not common for the president to have ZERO American presence when talking with Russia. I'm not talking about media or cameras, I'm talking about at least having a national security presence along with translators. Trump did none of that twice which SHOULD be concerning. We have intelligence that Russia tried to meddle with our election and true or not, that would dictate the need of having an American presence of some sort such as translators or national security present. What Trump did is incompetence or willful negligence in the least and nefarious at worst.
 
Contact with Russians does not mean "Russia" meetings.

From the article:



Trump Jr's "meeting" was with "Russians" (one of whom is a naturalized citizen) trying to represent adoption interests but pretending to have inside information about Hillary's corrupt dealings in Russia.

Session's has admitted meetings with Russian government representatives...as part of his job as a Senator. Has this story changed? :unsure13:

Kushner is trying to comply with transparency requirements; probably initiated by Trump himself, frustrated by Progressive-Left mudslinging attempts to prove he was in league with the Russians.

Again, guilt by association as they try to comply with transparency demands...yet if they didn't you'd be crying intentional hiding too as leakers pulled contacts these people didn't think important out of their pasts.

More damned if they do or don't, no matter what they do. :roll:

Since Kushner is trying to comply with transparency demands, he no doubt appreciates the assistance he's had in jogging his woefully inadequate memory.
 
We have the emails, it says Clinton/Russia! (see link below) Hard evidence.
What do you have to show that it was *really* about adoption?
Here we have Trump supporters trusting Russian's 100%, and doubting our entire government as a deep state swamp...



Of course it's changed, it's the Trump administration.




Trying? He omitted 100 names from his security forms!
And now he's using legally crafted written "speeches" to weave around the real questions currently.

Bull****. There is no damned if you do, damned if you don't.
None of them have come clean and laid it all on the table, they have been caught lying and misleading and obstructing EVERY SINGLE INCH of the way.

The have now lost trust/credibility, and obviously it would be STUPID to give them the benefit of the doubt, and not be 100% skeptical about their latest and greatest spinning of yarn.

Anyone can read the full emails here:
Read Full Emails of Donald Trump Jr. Setting Up Meeting With Russian Lawyer - NBC News

Subject: FW: Russia- Clinton - private and confidential

Shameful.

I am reminded of the biblical reference of pearls before swine.

Some people simply cannot be reached or moved by factual data or rational analysis and observation.
 
No, it is not common for the president to have ZERO American presence when talking with Russia. I'm not talking about media or cameras, I'm talking about at least having a national security presence along with translators. Trump did none of that twice which SHOULD be concerning. We have intelligence that Russia tried to meddle with our election and true or not, that would dictate the need of having an American presence of some sort such as translators or national security present. What Trump did is incompetence or willful negligence in the least and nefarious at worst.

That's right, he's either grossly incompetent by ignoring all sensible precautions around a foreign adversary, or it was just private locker-room talk, see?
 
You are not helping your claims of innocence here. Just because Democrats might do it doesn't mean that Republicans won't. You are being incredibly naive and trusting of a man who has banned on-camera press briefings and has personal investments with Russia. It makes no sense for Trump not to bring around his entourage or even his family to the meeting with Putin. I'd be comfortable if at least, Ivanka was in the room with him, because she seems to be the sanest member of that family!

You pointing to Democrats do it too, does not mean that Trump didn't and there were no reports about Obama meeting with Muslim leaders without any Americans present.

(Sigh) Nor do naked allegations based on guilt by association that Trump et al must have done something equate to they actually did. :no:

This is the problem with arguments from anti-Trump advocates, especially in regards to possible impeachment.

When their own arguments are turned around against them they fall back on the "I'm rubber you're glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks back on you" response.

The mistake you, and others seem to be making is that I am arguing FOR innocence.

NO! I am arguing from the presumption of innocence. There's a difference.

The person(s) being accused, in this case Mr. Trump and his administration, are presumed to have done no wrong.

Those who make allegations of wrongdoing have the burden of not only making them, but of PROVING them.

So far, nothing but innuendo and cries of guilt by association have been presented.

So when I present points like you have attempted to dismiss, it is not to show they prove his innocence...but rather to show that such acts or contacts as his group may have engaged in are neither unusual nor particularly damning. Not even "criminal." They are not "smoking guns" or evidence of collusion.

That to act like they are is hypocritical.
 
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No, it is not common for the president to have ZERO American presence when talking with Russia. I'm not talking about media or cameras, I'm talking about at least having a national security presence along with translators. Trump did none of that twice which SHOULD be concerning. We have intelligence that Russia tried to meddle with our election and true or not, that would dictate the need of having an American presence of some sort such as translators or national security present. What Trump did is incompetence or willful negligence in the least and nefarious at worst.

First, it doesn't have to be "common," it only has to have happened previously and by other Presidents. :shrug:

You look at these actions in the worst light possible because you presume guilt, and assume he is acting as a guilty party.

IMO, when he does this it demonstrates he doesn't care what people believe, he is still his own man.

To me that doesn't reflect the actions of a guilty mind.
 
Since Kushner is trying to comply with transparency demands, he no doubt appreciates the assistance he's had in jogging his woefully inadequate memory.

You make this out as a sarcastic comment.

I'd like to ask you if YOU can remember every single contact you've had with...oh...let's say every single member of the Black community over the last seven years.

Perhaps, just every single female of that group if the pool is too large?

People meet all sorts of people for short or minor conversations and encounters. Absent a photographic memory the average person remembers a mere fraction...usually those with ongoing contact or had a major impact in some way.

So, perhaps Mr. Kushner would appreciate people refreshing his memory regarding contacts over the prior seven years whom some think he should have disclosed on an SF 86.

I know I would. :coffeepap:
 
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I'd like to ask you if YOU can remember every single contact you've had with...oh...let's say every single member of the Black community over the last seven years.
If he put 90/100 down, maybe you'd have a point.

He apparently recalled 0/100 at the time, and after getting in trouble, recalled 100/100.

This is not a memory issue, is it.
 
First, it doesn't have to be "common," it only has to have happened previously and by other Presidents. :shrug:

So if a president from the past gets drunk and pisses on a foreign leader, that makes it OK to do now? Sorry that is idiotic thinking there.

You look at these actions in the worst light possible because you presume guilt, and assume he is acting as a guilty party.

No I already stated what I think it is. Incompetence or willful negligence at best, nefarious at worst. You simply don't do that in an age where propaganda can be used against you in that manner. Putin can state that Trump offered to blow him for all we know or state some other claim that Trump couldn't back up with proof because he has none because the man child decided not to have even a American translator or national security present.

IMO, when he does this it demonstrates he doesn't care what people believe, he is still his own man.

To me that doesn't reflect the actions of a guilty mind.

No it demonstrates that he is incompetent. Look, my uncle is his "own man" too as he pukes in public like a drunk man and gets jailed. That doesn't mean I want him to act like that as a president. If this was Obama you would be saying how unprofessional and wrong it is for him to do that. I've already listed why he shouldn't have done that and my points are quite VALID unlike yours of "He's his own man". Gimme a break, you guys won't criticize Trump for ANYHTING even when he clearly is in the wrong.
 
If he put 90/100 down, maybe you'd have a point.

He apparently recalled 0/100 at the time, and after getting in trouble, recalled 100/100.

This is not a memory issue, is it.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Has he ever held a government position which required him to list all his past contacts of various types over the prior seven years?

I know that the first time I filled one out I wasn't sure who I needed to put in each of the categories.

Do I excuse his lapse? No. He should have performed his due diligence and sought counsel before submitting it.

I still presume innocence error rather than willful intent to deceive. Can you prove it was willful?
 
I'd like to ask you if YOU can remember every single contact you've had with...oh...let's say every single member of the Black community over the last seven years.

Red herring. People like Kushner have appointment secretary's, aides, business calendar's, vetting personnel, and usually have all post-meeting minutes archived (analogue/digital) .
 
So if a president from the past gets drunk and pisses on a foreign leader, that makes it OK to do now? Sorry that is idiotic thinking there.

Red herring followed by ad hominem. Dismissed!

No I already stated what I think it is. Incompetence or willful negligence at best, nefarious at worst. You simply don't do that in an age where propaganda can be used against you in that manner. Putin can state that Trump offered to blow him for all we know or state some other claim that Trump couldn't back up with proof because he has none because the man child decided not to have even a American translator or national security present.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Even you. ;)

As for what someone can claim or allege? Well, why would you chose to believe the devil you curse when he accuses the alleged sinner? Is it because you are pre-disposed to believing evil of the sinner? Think about it.

No it demonstrates that he is incompetent. Look, my uncle is his "own man" too as he pukes in public like a drunk man and gets jailed. That doesn't mean I want him to act like that as a president. If this was Obama you would be saying how unprofessional and wrong it is for him to do that. I've already listed why he shouldn't have done that and my points are quite VALID unlike yours of "He's his own man". Gimme a break, you guys won't criticize Trump for ANYHTING even when he clearly is in the wrong.

Again, you have "proven" nothing. You have simply asserted a position.

Nor do you have to like, agree, or support the President. :shrug:

As for me not criticizing Trump?

There are several issues I have with his leadership style. Not the least of which is his inability to control his Twitter feed, and the way he treats his personnel like he is still on the Apprentice.

That doesn't mean I am going to roll over and join your "The man is pure evil and must be purged" bandwagon. :coffeepap:
 
Red herring. People like Kushner have appointment secretary's, aides, business calendar's, vetting personnel, and usually have all post-meeting minutes archived (analogue/digital) .

Not a Red Herring. A simple question for comparison. :shrug:

I guess you missed the follow on post where I did NOT excuse his lapse. (See #17, above).
 
I guess you missed the follow on post where I did NOT excuse his lapse. (See #17, above).

My apology in that case. A multimillionaire business figure like Kushner has no excuse for neglecting to faithfully note meetings with foreigners on his government security clearance declaration.
 
Perhaps, perhaps not.Has he ever held a government position which required him to list all his past contacts of various types over the prior seven years?
Can he read ****ing English?
Should he get a god damned national security clearance if he can't fill out the ****ing paperwork correctly? What's your excuse when he ****s up real foreign policy matters that affect all our lives? "Duh mach, has he ever had a job doing that before!?! No?!! Well then get OFF his ass!!"

He's been in executive roles at his Dad's company. Yes, he knows how to fill out a ****ing form.

I still presume innocence error rather than willful intent to deceive.
Despite him lying about not knowing what the meaning was about, when it was on the subject line?
Despite him apparently remembering 100/100, when at first he did 0/100?
Despite it including Russian related meetings, which he has known for a long time was of great public interest in terms of suspicious that Trump/team was involved in the Russian election play?

He actually claimed he had someone else do his paperwork. Even his excuses...which is what it is, it's not a defense, it's an excuse, is better than yours.
None of which lends any credibility to the idea that he should be in the position that Trump so wisely put family in.

Just putting family in that role alone, you'd think these "trustworthy" republicans would have lost their mind...but instead they support it who heartedly? Sold America out.
 
Another "nothingburger", it seems the media runs with the leak, blows it up to scandalous dimensions and then the Democrats lap it up, next comes the follow-up and it turns out much ado about nothing much. I was reading just a few days ago about this secret meeting Kushner had with the infamous former Russian ambassador and spymaster at the "Mayflower Hotel" in Washington DC. Turns out Trump gave a campaign speech there, an introduction of sorts to the foreign policy his Administration would pursue, Kushner was actively involved in the event, a bunch of ambassadors were invited, the Russian and three others greeted Kushner at a VIP reception after Trump's speech, they shook hands and exchanged pleasantries -that's not a "meeting"! When Trumpophobes go on about these conspiratorial meetings with Russians they conjure secrecy, you can't do that at a reception with a bunch of other ambassadors greeting each other.

This whole Russian collusion thing seems rather hypocritical too:
For their current criticisms of the Trump administration to carry water, liberals will have to do more than simply apologize for regurgitating Obama’s insult that Republicans are retrograde Cold Warriors. They will have to renounce pretty much the entire Obama foreign policy legacy, which both underestimated and appeased Russia at every turn. Otherwise, their grave intonations about “active measures,” “kompromat” and other Soviet-era phenomena will continue sounding opportunistic, and their protestations about Trump being a Russian stooge will continue to have the appearance of being motivated solely by partisan politics.

For now, the newfangled Democratic hawkishness on Russia seems motivated almost entirely, if not solely, by anger over the (erroneous) belief that Putin cost Clinton the election —not over the Kremlin’s aggression toward its neighbors, its intervention on behalf of Assad in Syria, its cheating on the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Force Treaty, or countless other malfeasances. Most Democrats were willing to let Russia get away with these things when Obama was telling the world that “alignments of nations rooted in the cleavages of a long-gone Cold War” are obsolete, or that Russia was a mere “regional power” whose involvement in Syria would lead to another Afghanistan, or when he was trying to win Russian help for his signal foreign policy achievement, the Iran nuclear deal. If the Democrats’ newfound antagonism toward the Kremlin extended beyond mere partisanship, they would have protested most of Obama’s foreign policy, which acceded to Russian prerogatives at nearly every turn.

Many Democrats seem to genuinely believe that Putin is the only reason Clinton isn’t America’s first female president. Seeing Russian meddling as the single or most significant explanation for their electoral woes conveniently lets Democrats ignore the many other factors (a lousy candidate, an uninspiring and unconvincing platform, a left-wing identity politics that alienates many Americans, just to name a few) that thwarted what ought to have been an easy victory against the most toxic and unqualified individual ever to run for president. While the American people certainly need to be better educated about the breadth of Kremlin influence operations and the multifarious ways Russia threatens the free world, a fixation on Russia to the exclusion of all else will not win elections.

Hypocrisy is no stranger to politics, of course, and it’s never too late for people to come around to the realization that Russia poses a danger. But with Democrats seriously talking about impeachment or even treason, a reckoning is in order. Constantly harping on Trump’s strange affinity for Putin and suspicious connections to Russia isn’t sufficient; the far more substantive policy concessions made to Russia by the previous administration did at least as much damage to American interests, if not more. Are liberals willing to admit the reset was a giant miscalculation from the start? Are they willing to support sending arms to Ukraine? To redeploy missile defense systems to allies in Eastern Europe? Are they willing to concede that Obama’s Syria policy was an epic disaster that paved the way for Russia’s reemergence as a Middle Eastern military power? Are they, in other words, willing to renounce the foreign policy legacy of one of their most popular leaders? Because only that will demonstrate they’re serious about confronting Russia. Anything short reeks of partisanship. Why it?s hard to take democrats seriously on Russia – POLITICO
 
Not a Red Herring. A simple question for comparison. :shrug:

I guess you missed the follow on post where I did NOT excuse his lapse. (See #17, above).

If Trump had come out at the beginning of all this when it was just questions about his, in my opinion, rather odd complimentary speech about Putin and Russia and emerging links between some of his campaign staff and Russian actors and said "Some of my people had meetings with Russia or ties to Russia. We are going to look into this and disclose all of them. Some Russian lawyer offered to give us some info on Hillary once, but never did and the person who got that email didn't think it was a big deal. There was no concerted effort to collude with Russia or any offer of benefit for them if they damaged Crooked Hillary's campaign.", I don't think this investigation would have gone anywhere. I certainly thought it was unlikely to amount to anything until DJT's email surfaced.

Now, even if he is 100% innocent of trying to collude with Russia, he is 100% guilty of destroying any credibility he has on the issue. No way around it. That is 100% his fault. Meanwhile, he is cannibalizing his own staff to distract from his own failings. AG Sessions is at fault for not going after Hillary? Does Trump not remember publicly saying he decided not to go after her?
 
Another "nothingburger", it seems the media runs with the leak, blows it up to scandalous dimensions and then the Democrats lap it up, next comes the follow-up and it turns out much ado about nothing much. I was reading just a few days ago about this secret meeting Kushner had with the infamous former Russian ambassador and spymaster at the "Mayflower Hotel" in Washington DC. Turns out Trump gave a campaign speech there, an introduction of sorts to the foreign policy his Administration would pursue, Kushner was actively involved in the event, a bunch of ambassadors were invited, the Russian and three others greeted Kushner at a VIP reception after Trump's speech, they shook hands and exchanged pleasantries -that's not a "meeting"! When Trumpophobes go on about these conspiratorial meetings with Russians they conjure secrecy, you can't do that at a reception with a bunch of other ambassadors greeting each other.

This whole Russian collusion thing seems rather hypocritical too:

Not wanting to go to war with Russia does not make you a hypocrite for being concerned about their attempts to favor one candidate through illegal hacking and spreading of propaganda through social media or the potential that the Trump campaign was possibly aware of it or involved in some fashion.

Trump has favored ending sanctions on Russia (and also imposing them since he changes his mind every 20 seconds) and denied that they were involved in the hacking because Putin told him so.

Any assertion that there is some moral equivalence between Trump and Obama on Russia because Obama wasn't very good at countering Russian aggression is just pure crap.
 
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