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U.S. to Allow 15,000 Extra Temporary Worker Visas This Year

No idea, there. It's possible.

But I'd rather see the free-market work here, by allowing the demand to increase wages to the point where more of my fellow citizens were employed.

BTW - as pointed-out above and in the article, H2B is non-farm workers.

One example you mentioned in the OP, that of fisheries, has been mostly filled by immigrants since the 1940's. Back then it was Filipino immigrants, now it's central Americans.

What possible wage increase could get Americans into working at fisheries? One that would probably raise the price of fish by 50-100% in the marketplace.

We should concentrate on the H1-B visa program first, and require people like Bill Gates (one of the biggest profiteers of the program) to start hiring Americans again, and paying them liveable wages for tech jobs instead of importing people from abroad.
 
Except if you actually READ the article, it doesn't lambast him.

It just... Yah know for the most part points out what happened.

Accusing him of reneging on campaign promises equals what to you? 'Jus point out wut happened'? Yeah right.
 
Remains to be seen.

I'd still do it.

If we start seeing too many negative effects, we can always back-off.

An how many farmers will be driven into bankrupt in the mean time as one ruin harvest can result in such outcomes for many farmers and since when does the simple laws of economic need to be proven and remain to be seen?
 
For the pro Trump crowd:
If they deport illegals who are working in these fields, they need to fill the spots somehow, hopefully very temporarily until these workers can be replaced by citizens.
H-2B visas are designed for non-agricultural workers for jobs in a variety of businesses, including fisheries, construction, hotels, restaurants and resorts.
For the anti Trump crowd:
I could be wrong and Trump is lining his own pockets, he is a liar.
Depends from what side you want to look at the issue.
 
Jobs are coming for all.

America is becoming great again.......despite the obstructionism of the butt-hurt Hillary fans.
You drinking cherry or grape kool aid?
 
The article intro:



And the administration spin contained within:



Source: U.S.A. Today: U.S. to Allow 15,000 Extra Temporary Worker Visas This Year

Alright, increasing the number of H2B workers would seem to be in conflict with the MAGA Promise. But since the Trump Organization uses a significant number of these workers, should we assume Trump knows better than us?

You decide!

Along with fewer temporary worker visas we have to reform welfare to force alble bodied Americans off the dole and into the workforce

It will take time to put lazy people used to a government check back to work
 
Hillary fans? Your boy Trump controls the House, the Senate and the White House and you want to say Hillary fans have some kind of influence? Pay attention- if America isn't great agin by mid-terms it's your boy Trump's fault. No American president was ever handed a better opportunity to make his vision a reality, and your boy is squandering the opportunity with partisan squabbling. What does he have to have handed to him before you'll admit he holds all the cards and can't win the hand? Can you ever admit that your boy is incompetent?

He's not "my boy" and he obviously DOESN'T control the House and Senate--if he did he'd have passed health care and a lot of other things.

No. You're wrong.
 
Along with fewer temporary worker visas we have to reform welfare to force alble bodied Americans off the dole and into the workforce

It will take time to put lazy people used to a government check back to work
As long as the basic safety net remains in place for the deserved, I have no problem with eliminating the fraud and freeloaders.
 
The simple fact is that there are many jobs that Americans could do but won't. Migrant farming is the best example. When a few states went illegal-crazy, illegals didn't show up to do their accustomed migrant farm labor role.

Result: crops rotted in the field.



Americans just don't want to do that work for that labor. The only way to compel them would be to remove the safety net, but that has it's own issues.

i do not believe there is any job an American would not do
the objection to accepting these jobs is the low pay that comes with the work
without importing people willing to perform the low wage jobs, the compensation would increase for the American worker to fulfill the job requirements
 
An how many farmers will be driven into bankrupt in the mean time as one ruin harvest can result in such outcomes for many farmers and since when does the simple laws of economic need to be proven and remain to be seen?
Allowing the labor market to tighten a bit is not going bankrupt an industry.

The farmers seemed to have gotten along fine, using the earlier quotas.

Every industry will try to scare the American public into bending the rules for them. Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the "welfare" mentality that seems to permeate society today - including in business. If the weakest in any industry depend upon hand-outs or special measures, perhaps they're not fairly competitive to begin with.
 
Allowing the labor market to tighten a bit is not going bankrupt an industry.

The farmers seemed to have gotten along fine, using the earlier quotas.

Every industry will try to scare the American public into bending the rules for them. Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the "welfare" mentality that seems to permeate society today - including in business. If the weakest in any industry depend upon hand-outs or special measures, perhaps they're not fairly competitive to begin with.

LOL most of the farm workers are illegal not legal so no farmers are not getting in the crops with legal workers so blocking illegal workers without greatly increasing the supply of legal workers would be far far more then slightly tightening up the farm labor market.

Hell the farm lands in south Florida where I live is being rezone and turn into residence homes in any case.

But what the hell my bet is that most of those farmers and the people who sell them supplies are Trump voters so who the hell care if they end up on the short end of what they voted for as I myself do not care if my food come from Mexico and south America instead of just being picked by illegal workers in the US.

As Trump would say made Mexico great again by moving farm production to Mexico from the US.
 
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LOL most of the farm workers are illegal not legal so no farmers are not getting in the crops with legal workers so blocking illegal workers without greatly increasing the supply of legal workers would be far far more then slightly tightening up the farm labor market.

Hell the farm lands in south Florida where I live is being rezone and turn into residence homes in any case.

But what the hell my bet is that most of those farmers and the people who sell them supplies are Trump voters so who the hell care if they end up on the short end of what they voted for as I myself do not care if my food come from Mexico and south America instead of just being picked by illegal workers in the US.

As Trump would say made Mexico great again by moving farm production to Mexico from the US.
Fair enough.

But remember, I'm advocating tightening-up our immigration system, not eliminating it. These changes don't occur in one fell swoop. Let's watch and see what happens over time, which essentially is how immigration should be. It should be reactionary to our nations best interests, while allowing compassion. And it absolutely should be legal. It needs to be monitored, and it's difficult to monitor illegal activity.
 
Allowing the labor market to tighten a bit is not going bankrupt an industry.

The farmers seemed to have gotten along fine, using the earlier quotas.

Every industry will try to scare the American public into bending the rules for them. Quite frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the "welfare" mentality that seems to permeate society today - including in business. If the weakest in any industry depend upon hand-outs or special measures, perhaps they're not fairly competitive to begin with.

I don't know how, other than some people are not paying attention, that H2 visas are non agricultural. I know you said it already and so have I. H1 visas are the farm jobs, this article and topic is about H2 visas, which are mostly used .. as stated already also.. in the tech sector. these are not jobs that americans will not do. americans will and are/were doing them. These are the jobs someone was paying an American 65k for and they fire that person and hire someone on an h2b visa to do the same job for 45k. only they retitle the job so they can get around the law regarding displacing American workers.
 
Why?

Why not give Americans the first shot at these jobs, and allow free-market principles to promote wages providing a sustainable income for our fellow Americans?

I get pissed when I hear corporate spokespersons saying that they can find competent Americans.

In construction, we tend to keep the young and hungry when they show that they can be valuable to us, (work hard, ask questions, be on time, fairly intelligent, a desire to learn), and then we train em up!
 
That's wrong, H1-B visas are for college educated so called 'specialty' positions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

Temporary Farm workers fall under H2-A. H2-B are other mostly menial positions.

Yes you are correct, I had them mixed up, but I was right that the H2B visa is not agricultural anyway and that is what the topic of this threat is about.
 
Jobs are coming for all.

America is becoming great again.......despite the obstructionism of the butt-hurt Hillary fans.

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#1 There's a lot of work that Americans won't do anymore, like seasonal work, due to perceptions of standard of living and its entitlements. Only the most direly poor will do it and they live in make-shift camps where buses shuttle them to work every day.

#2 Immigrant workers are usually okay with being paid less because they are making USD which still amounts to way more than they'd make in their home countries.

#3 Some temporary workers are here on skills and development exchanges through corporate relationships with companies in their home countries. These are reciprocal arrangements.

#4 In most cutting edge jobs, there are more people in populated countries like India and China with advanced skill sets than there are workers in those entire fields in the U.S. Companies have a right to seek the highest qualifications from any source now -- you can thank globalization for that. If an IT person in India has more skills than the resume pool of Americans and will accept lower pay then he's going to be offered a visa, and the government will allow it because it technically qualifies as need.

#5 Temporary workers are not entitled to the same rights as American citizens, and they tend to be more reliable/better behaved so that they won't be sent home.

#6 Temporary workers tend to be contractual whereas most Americans are looking for permanent work.

#7 The skilled population is aging and retiring and despite the propaganda there is not enough equivalent skill to replace it. We have and always will be in need of immigrant workers to shore up our economy.

The list goes on.

Just like to point out this is entirely inaccurate. Americans companies are strictly hiring people in IT and technology fields because they are willing to work for way less than an American would request. Most of the work they do is horrendously bad. I would know because I have to deal with it every day.
 
I get pissed when I hear corporate spokespersons saying that they can find competent Americans.

In construction, we tend to keep the young and hungry when they show that they can be valuable to us, (work hard, ask questions, be on time, fairly intelligent, a desire to learn), and then we train em up!
Because, what they really mean is: We can't find Americans to work the long hours at low pay slave labor that our H1B's do! And they're captive for 6 years, because we're sponsoring them!
 
Wow! So much I disagree with here!

#1 There's a lot of work that Americans won't do anymore, like seasonal work, due to perceptions of standard of living and its entitlements. Only the most direly poor will do it and they live in make-shift camps where buses shuttle them to work every day.
While there may be some truth with some of the jobs, a great many jobs are low paying because illegal and immigrant labor has driven them low. I've seen in my lifetime where local construction jobs went from decent paying middle-class jobs that paid American men a living wage with decent benefits, to low paying jobs without benefits that are done predominately by Mexicans. Why are these jobs now done mostly by Mexican labor? Because cheap Mexican labor, often illegal, has driven the wages down to where few Americans will do them.

But it didn't come about because Americans wouldn't do the jobs. They were desirable jobs! This came about because cheap labor drove the wages and working conditions into the ground! They've become 3rd world jobs for 3rd world labor.

#2 Immigrant workers are usually okay with being paid less because they are making USD which still amounts to way more than they'd make in their home countries.
What? So exploit them? :doh

#3 Some temporary workers are here on skills and development exchanges through corporate relationships with companies in their home countries. These are reciprocal arrangements.
Not familiar. So you may have a valid point, here. But when it comes to corporate America, I'm wary.

#4 In most cutting edge jobs, there are more people in populated countries like India and China with advanced skill sets than there are workers in those entire fields in the U.S. Companies have a right to seek the highest qualifications from any source now -- you can thank globalization for that. If an IT person in India has more skills than the resume pool of Americans and will accept lower pay then he's going to be offered a visa, and the government will allow it because it technically qualifies as need.
I agree we can't fight globalization. But I see no reason for granting a visa. Who says any given foreign citizen is entitled to a visa? Some corporation? I certainly don't. Let the wages and working conditions rise, and young Americans will once again flock to university science programs to land good paying technical jobs.

#5 Temporary workers are not entitled to the same rights as American citizens, and they tend to be more reliable/better behaved so that they won't be sent home.
Holy Jeezus! Again? So exploit them? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!

#6 Temporary workers tend to be contractual whereas most Americans are looking for permanent work.
So? You import overseas workers, because you refuse to give Americans a fair shake? Or pay unemployment? This doesn't fly with me at all.

#7 The skilled population is aging and retiring and despite the propaganda there is not enough equivalent skill to replace it.
B.S. Offer decent pay & benefits, and young people will happily flock to your industry. Instate a training or apprenticeship program, and with the prices of a college education as high as it is, there will be plenty of non-college bound kids looking for skilled quality employment, and eager as hell to learn a decent paying technical skill.

We have and always will be in need of immigrant workers to shore up our economy.
I won't deny that. But what illegal and skill-less (H2B) immigration is doing is giving us a stratified society, with two classes of residents. One of which is that of a 2nd class to be exploited, as you described so well above. We are allowing these employers to offer positions below American standards.

The list goes on.
You're really scaring me now! :shock:
 
Please understand, I am just pointing out behaviors, not attempting to justify them.

Wow! So much I disagree with here!

While there may be some truth with some of the jobs, a great many jobs are low paying because illegal and immigrant labor has driven them low. I've seen in my lifetime where local construction jobs went from decent paying middle-class jobs that paid American men a living wage with decent benefits, to low paying jobs without benefits that are done predominately by Mexicans. Why are these jobs now done mostly by Mexican labor? Because cheap Mexican labor, often illegal, has driven the wages down to where few Americans will do them.

Because the global market is a race to the bottom.

But it didn't come about because Americans wouldn't do the jobs. They were desirable jobs! This came about because cheap labor drove the wages and working conditions into the ground! They've become 3rd world jobs for 3rd world labor.

It's a bit of both, really. The jobs that have been taken over by immigrants are now, culturally, seen as undesirable jobs for white Americans.

I agree we can't fight globalization. But I see no reason for granting a visa. Who says any given foreign citizen is entitled to a visa? Some corporation? I certainly don't. Let the wages and working conditions rise, and young Americans will once again flock to university science programs to land good paying technical jobs.

It's not about entitlement, but sheer numbers. For example in IT, there is a huge job pool to choose from in India and China where entering the job market is utterly cut throat. You need straight A's in school and then a perfect employment record, and high skills. The globalists are basically saying Americans don't have a right to those jobs because we aren't willing to do the same level of competition. Thus companies hire the elite from foreign countries now.

So? You import overseas workers, because you refuse to give Americans a fair shake? Or pay unemployment? This doesn't fly with me at all.

More to do with skills. The cream of the crop is larger in India than it is in America. Their best of the best will work for less and there are more of them to pick from. Do you understand? Globalization means zero loyalty to any country. It means simple supply and demand economics that supersedes any individual country.

B.S. Offer decent pay & benefits, and young people will happily flock to your industry. Instate a training or apprenticeship program, and with the prices of a college education as high as it is, there will be plenty of non-college bound kids looking for skilled quality employment, and eager as hell to learn a decent paying technical skill.

Why pay for any of that when you can just outsource a skilled worker who will work for less and never whine about job entitlement because they feel damn lucky to have a job in America? A job which you could kick them out of at any time without having to pay them EI or deal with kickback?

I won't deny that. But what illegal and skill-less (H2B) immigration is doing is giving us a stratified society, with two classes of residents. One of which is that of a 2nd class to be exploited, as you described so well above. We are allowing these employers to offer positions below American standards.

Immigrants are not the problem. They are simply a response to supply and demand economics on a global scale. Your beef is actually with the free trade agreements and the treaty system, whether or not you realize it. Our governments and the wealthy elite have been selling us out for decades. They have zero loyalty to Americans. This is purely about profit. Successive White House administrations have declared policy that says what's best for America is getting the best workers from anywhere possible. That could be here or in Timbuktu. The Republicans have the worst track record, but both parties are responsible.

What people fail to understand is that neo-liberals are already post-nationalists. They live and move in every country. Profits are globalized but the peons who make profits happen are still trapped by borders, which is how they keep it through organizations like the IMF and World Bank. That way you can pillage any country's human or material capital through loans and usury without ever having to worry about your victims coming to your wealthy back yard to join you at your gated community. The entire planet is now a castle with a moat around it.
 
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Just like to point out this is entirely inaccurate. Americans companies are strictly hiring people in IT and technology fields because they are willing to work for way less than an American would request. Most of the work they do is horrendously bad. I would know because I have to deal with it every day.

That's the double-edged sword of our privileged American way of life. If we want to consume 30% of the world's annual resources and expect cheap goods, our treaties now come with partnership obligations. As more countries gain eminence, we can't jackboot them like we did in the 70's, 80's and 90's. (China and India are examples.) Instead we have to form complex interdependence with the global market while our national stake becomes more reasonably small.

America and western europe invented global capitalism through their treaty organizations. Our wealthy never had any intention of making it about American exceptionalism or God Save The Queen. That was just the propaganda they fed to the public so they'd get on board with it. In reality it's about a small minority's obscene profits and power at an utmost global playing field.

We have all been sold out. Every country, every nationality, every race and creed. The world ecology is collapsing along with the financial structures that created social mobility for the middle class. Prepare for the next depression, it's about 2-3 years away if we're lucky, sooner if not. And as usual people are blaming immigrants when really that is small potatoes compared to how the global wealth supply is being gathered and controlled at this time.
 
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