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Where Did Trump Dig Up 45,000 Mining Jobs?

Fenton said:
But I thought coal jobs were never coming back ?
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In general... no they are not. Not for heating. There will be some minor fluctuation but the coal heyday as an energy source is over. The metallurgical coal is for the iron industry... and Kentucky has a limited amount of it.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
What treason? The only people that say that are not familiar with the definition, unless you know something intelligence agencies are unaware of.
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We consider Cyber attacks to be the 21st century act of war. Therefore, Collusion with a foreign adversary to interfere into an American election is Treason. Collusion to commit a felony by hacking into DNC databases--therefore falls into the catagory of Treason.

"Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them (hacking into databases) or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
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https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-treason-3367947

Which is probably why Robert Mueller hired an expert criminal law expert recently.
Top Criminal Expert Tapped by Robert Muller to Join Russia Investigation
 
Oreo said:
We consider Cyber attacks to be the 21st century act of war. Therefore, Collusion with a foreign adversary to interfere into an American election is Treason. Collusion to commit a felony by hacking into DNC databases--therefore falls into the catagory of Treason.


https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-treason-3367947

Which is probably why Robert Mueller hired an expert criminal law expert recently.
Top Criminal Expert Tapped by Robert Muller to Join Russia Investigation
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OK, sure, keep us posted when Trump is indicted on charges of "Treason" You can continue dreaming and redefining words to support your arguments, in the (very long) meantime.:roll:
 
Slingshot Bob said:
OK, sure, keep us posted when Trump is indicted on charges of "Treason" You can continue dreaming and redefining words to support your arguments, in the (very long) meantime.:roll:
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I just explained the law to you--it's not my issue that you don't understand it.
 
Where Did Trump Dig Up 45,000 Mining Jobs? He didn't. About 500 actual mining jobs have been created since January 20 and about 1400 lost.
 
ecofarm said:
How do we know people wouldn't like the new job? They never tried it. Fear of change is not a reason to maintain the status quo; that's childish.
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Its that same fear of change that has people acting like full blown lunatics, in the wake of the election. Trying to make things better for you're constituency, should not be a demonizing trait.
 
Oborosen said:
Its that same fear of change that has people acting like full blown lunatics, in the wake of the election. Trying to make things better for you're constituency, should not be a demonizing trait.
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Well, both the "better" and the reasoning behind it are subject to criticism. Is it really better for someone to be a coal miner than get free government training and a nice job? Do people really want to be coal miners without knowing what the other job would be like?

We cannot create jobs just because someone thinks it's better than an unknown alternative. We can't create DDT production jobs just because some people wanna do it.
 
JamesBY said:
Not treason but certainly sedition.
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Since it involved a crime--in this case a Felony by hacking into DNC databases it moves into Treason. We consider cyber attacks to be the 21st century Act of War.

1-1/2 years ago the Russians hacked into the Pentagon--and it was moving through the Joint Chiefs of Staffs emails so quickly they had to shut it down for two weeks to replace hardware and software.
Russian hack on the Pentagon: Hackers struck last year at the heart of the U.S. military in 2015 - CBS News

They're constantly trying to get into our power grids--especially if they're close to U.S. military bases and or feed other National Security installations.
House Homeland Security chairman warns hackers will target U.S. power grid - NaturalNews.com

The only Presidential moron that sat down at the G-20 meeting a couple of weeks ago and proposed to Vladimir Putin that we have a joint cyber security union with the Russians was Trump.

Republican senators Lindsey Graham, an influential South Carolina Republican who is a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Marco Rubio of Florida, who opposed Mr Trump for their party's presidential nomination, blasted the idea. "It's not the dumbest idea I have ever heard but it's pretty close," Senator Graham told NBC's Meet the Press program, saying Mr Trump's apparent willingness to "forgive and forget" stiffened his resolve to pass legislation imposing sanctions on Russia.US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin clearly had plenty to talk about in their highly-anticipated meeting, Washington correspondent Zoe Daniel writes. On Twitter, Mr Rubio said: "While reality & pragmatism requires that we engage Vladimir Putin, he will never be a trusted ally or a reliable constructive partner.
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G20: Republicans blast Donald Trump's idea to form cyber security unit with Vladimir Putin - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

This is just one more reason on top of many that makes me believe that Vladimir Putin has Trump by the Cajones on something.
 
ecofarm said:
Well, both the "better" and the reasoning behind it are subject to criticism. Is it really better for someone to be a coal miner than get free government training and a nice job? Do people really want to be coal miners without knowing what the other job would be like?

We cannot create jobs just because someone thinks it's better than an unknown alternative. We can't create DDT production jobs just because some people wanna do it.
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But we are not talking about the young people here, we are talking about people that have been it for a life long prospect. Not someone who can easily just jump from it. I understand where you are coming from, but lets put it along the same line as this.

Picture someone who has been a career military man for almost his whole life, only for one unfortunate event to take all of that from him. How difficult is it for them to deal with life without that kind of environment?

We are talking about the people, who for them, this is their only means of making a way in their life.
 
Oborosen said:
But we are not talking about the young people here, we are talking about people that have been it for a life long prospect. Not someone who can easily just jump from it. I understand where you are coming from, but lets put it along the same line as this.

Picture someone who has been a career military man for almost his whole life, only for one unfortunate event to take all of that from him. How difficult is it for them to deal with life without that kind of environment?

We are talking about the people, who for them, this is their only means of making a way in their life.
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It's not their only means, they are offered training and new jobs. And let's not compare the military lifestyle/environment with being a coal miner. Coal mining is dirty and nasty without redeeming quality.

We can't just create pollution-heavy jobs because some people can't see other jobs would be better. That's asinine.
 
ecofarm said:
It's not their only means, they are offered training and new jobs. And let's not compare the military lifestyle/environment with being a coal miner. Coal mining is dirty and nasty without redeeming quality.

We can't just create pollution-heavy jobs because some people can't see other jobs would be better. That's asinine.
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It has the possibility of not being as pollution heavy as it was back in the 30s. There are plenty of methods now, that will reduce the environmental friction. Though I also know it wasn't the EPA that was killing the coal industry before hand, as it was more market focus. But too many people depend on that work to make the transition workable on such a large scale. Maybe in about five years, yeah. But not in the time frame that many are thinking they can just force onto people.
 
Oborosen said:
It has the possibility of not being as pollution heavy as it was back in the 30s. There are plenty of methods now, that will reduce the environmental friction. Though I also know it wasn't the EPA that was killing the coal industry before hand, as it was more market focus. But too many people depend on that work to make the transition workable on such a large scale. Maybe in about five years, yeah. But not in the time frame that many are thinking they can just force onto people.
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We're talking about bringing back jobs that are long gone. These people should have received training and new jobs long ago.

If we want to bring back the jobs for the economy or to support industry, that's one thing. But bringing back jobs because "well, that there's just what they like" is asinine.

We don't create jobs just because some uninformed, short-sighted individual likes to do that. If that was policy, we'd have to bring back every job someone enjoyed doing and wants to do again. That's not rational.

What if someone really enjoyed developing the PS2 game console? Do we bring back those jobs because people liked them and want to do it more? "I asked them if they want another job and free training, but they said 'no sir, we want to develop PS2s!' Well, then that's what they're gonna do!"

What if someone liked installing the upholstery for Yugos. Gonna bring back those jobs too?
 
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ecofarm said:
We're talking about bringing back jobs that are long gone. These people should have received training and new jobs long ago.

If we want to bring back the jobs for the economy or to support industry, that's one thing. But bringing back jobs because "well, that there's just what they like" is asinine.

We don't create jobs just because some uninformed, short-sighted individual likes to do that. If that was policy, we'd have to bring back every job someone enjoyed doing and wants to do again. That's not rational.

What if someone really enjoyed developing the PS2 game console? Do we bring back those jobs because people liked them and want to do it more? "I asked them if they want another job and free training, but they said 'no sir, we want to develop PS2s!' Well, then that's what they're gonna do!"

What if someone liked installing the upholstery for Yugos. Gonna bring back those jobs too?
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By the Gods I miss my Yugo...

I understand, but its more to like weaning a child, it will take a slow process. Just having the mining industry shuffle like a dead man walking is not good for the towns that were supported by it, and some have gotten along at a decent pace with their mines shut down. But there are others that could not support the extra unemployed that flowed in from mines being shut down.

What I am talking about is not completely revitalizing the industry, just giving it enough life to finally go out with some grace.
 
ecofarm said:
It's not their only means, they are offered training and new jobs. And let's not compare the military lifestyle/environment with being a coal miner. Coal mining is dirty and nasty without redeeming quality.

We can't just create pollution-heavy jobs because some people can't see other jobs would be better. That's asinine.
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All true. Besides the fact, there just isn't demand for that many coal jobs any longer. A hundred years ago, the nation needed over half-a-million coal miner. Now, machines and heavy equipment replaced those jobs. Those jobs aren't coming back and Trump making promises that he can't keep is cruel.
Oborosen said:
But we are not talking about the young people here, we are talking about people that have been it for a life long prospect. Not someone who can easily just jump from it. I understand where you are coming from, but lets put it along the same line as this.

Picture someone who has been a career military man for almost his whole life, only for one unfortunate event to take all of that from him. How difficult is it for them to deal with life without that kind of environment?

We are talking about the people, who for them, this is their only means of making a way in their life.
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For those too old to train, we can easily provide special income benefits for displaced workers. There are only about 50,000 coal workers in total. If half are over 50, the country can carry those workers until they are old enough for Social Security.
 
Oreo said:
Since it involved a crime--in this case a Felony by hacking into DNC databases it moves into Treason. We consider cyber attacks to be the 21st century Act of War.

1-1/2 years ago the Russians hacked into the Pentagon--and it was moving through the Joint Chiefs of Staffs emails so quickly they had to shut it down for two weeks to replace hardware and software.
Russian hack on the Pentagon: Hackers struck last year at the heart of the U.S. military in 2015 - CBS News

They're constantly trying to get into our power grids--especially if they're close to U.S. military bases and or feed other National Security installations.
House Homeland Security chairman warns hackers will target U.S. power grid - NaturalNews.com

The only Presidential moron that sat down at the G-20 meeting a couple of weeks ago and proposed to Vladimir Putin that we have a joint cyber security union with the Russians was Trump.


G20: Republicans blast Donald Trump's idea to form cyber security unit with Vladimir Putin - Donald Trump's America - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

This is just one more reason on top of many that makes me believe that Vladimir Putin has Trump by the Cajones on something.
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You can argue all day, but it is not treason. I do agree that your last sentence makes a lot of sense.
 
Oborosen said:
It has the possibility of not being as pollution heavy as it was back in the 30s. There are plenty of methods now, that will reduce the environmental friction. Though I also know it wasn't the EPA that was killing the coal industry before hand, as it was more market focus. But too many people depend on that work to make the transition workable on such a large scale. Maybe in about five years, yeah. But not in the time frame that many are thinking they can just force onto people.
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We have the five years and longer. The coal mining jobs in the their tens and scores of thousands are not coming back. Better jobs in better environments can happen over the next five years with retraining and government programs.
 
MTAtech wrote the best post of the morning: "For those too old to train, we can easily provide special income benefits for displaced workers. There are only about 50,000 coal workers in total. If half are over 50, the country can carry those workers until they are old enough for Social Security."
 
JamesBY said:
You can argue all day, but it is not treason. I do agree that your last sentence makes a lot of sense.
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We will agree to disagree on that point and agree that there's something going on between Putin and Trump.
 
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