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Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault, fami

Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

ludin said:
prove a women in her pj's is a threat.
a loud noise =/= if it is true does not equate to a gun shot.

cops are trained to handle loud noises not shoot people.
who said she was rapidly moving?
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1. PJs? How is that really an issue? Some PJs look like any leisure wear. Are you sure there was even enough light to tell what she was wearing?

2. A gunshot IS a loud noise, by definition.

3. Yes, cops are trained to recognize gunshots. If the cop says the loud noise sounded like a gunshot he will be believed.

4. Undoubtedly the cop will say she was moving rapidly. Since she had been waiting there for the cops and was understandably concerned about hearing screams.......it is logical that she would move rapidly toward the officer to talk to him.

Your theory of murder or manslaughter just took at hit with the revelation of the cops hearing a possible gunshot.

Now the decision will rest on whether or not the noise sounded enough like a gunshot........and who decides that?

A judge or jury........and they tend to trust a cop's ability to recognize a gunshot.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

The proximity of this event to the Fourth of July lends credence to the cop's case.

Is it likely that some fun-loving wag had a loud one left over and thought it would be fun to scare the cops?

Yes, that is a reasonable scenario.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

Vox said:
1. PJs? How is that really an issue? Some PJs look like any leisure wear. Are you sure there was even enough light to tell what she was wearing?

2. A gunshot IS a loud noise, by definition.

3. Yes, cops are trained to recognize gunshots. If the cop says the loud noise sounded like a gunshot he will be believed.

4. Undoubtedly the cop will say she was moving rapidly. Since she had been waiting there for the cops and was understandably concerned about hearing screams.......it is logical that she would move rapidly toward the officer to talk to him.

Your theory of murder or manslaughter just took at hit with the revelation of the cops hearing a possible gunshot.

Now the decision will rest on whether or not the noise sounded enough like a gunshot........and who decides that?

A judge or jury........and they tend to trust a cop's ability to recognize a gunshot.
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that is one of the major issues with juries trying a cop; it's a cultural issue that needs to be smashed ..........
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

cuban smokes said:
that is one of the major issues with juries trying a cop; it's a cultural issue that needs to be smashed ..........
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Trusting a cop's training and experience and ability to thus recognize the sound of a gunshot better than a civilian?

Come on.......that's common sense, not any "cultural issue."
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

Vox said:
Trusting a cop's training and experience and ability to thus recognize the sound of a gunshot better than a civilian?

Come on.......that's common sense, not any "cultural issue."
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there are over 300 million firearms in the US in the hands of about 80 million citizens; cops have NO monopoly on this

besides that fact; juries need to STOP trusting cops when cops are being prosecuted
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

cuban smokes said:
there are over 300 million firearms in the US in the hands of about 80 million citizens; cops have NO monopoly on this

besides that fact; juries need to STOP trusting cops when cops are being prosecuted
Click to expand...

Two thirds of Americans have only rare contact with guns and know nothing of them. Most of us that do have contact with guns NEVER hear a single shot fired in urban streets or a dark alley.......that's a fact. Even when you go to the range you wear heavy ear protection. Those few who hunt may hear rifles or shotguns in the woods, which does not qualify as recognizing pistol shots in a dark alley.

Cops, however.......DO hear shots fired in real life, urban streets, dark alleys, inside buildings.......as a part of their job.

Thus we trust their judgement more than we would an untrained and unqualified civilian.

This is common sense and it's correct.

As for juries......they have to judge credibility.......and they do it well. The recent record of cops being falsely accused and exonerated proves it.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

So.. saw that now the excuse is... I heard a loud noise.. and she walked up fast.

I guess this is the new excuse when "resisting arrest"and "I thought he was reaching for a gun." Doesn't work.

This is just so sad. Civilians have to fear panicky cops.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

jaeger19 said:
So.. saw that now the excuse is... I heard a loud noise.. and she walked up fast.
Click to expand...

That's just what we know so far.......but the combination of a dark alley and a rapidly advancing person with something in her hand combined with a gunshot will go a long way to getting this cop off.

Of course, there's the Somali issue.......that could work in his favor or against him. Hard to say.

We still need to know more to have a good handle on how this may go.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault

jaeger19 said:
So.. saw that now the excuse is... I heard a loud noise.. and she walked up fast.

I guess this is the new excuse when "resisting arrest"and "I thought he was reaching for a gun." Doesn't work.

This is just so sad. Civilians have to fear panicky cops.
Click to expand...


American civilians need to face the facts:

Government doesn't give a **** what citizens think about this issue; all they offer US when they kill off another one of US is bull**** platitudes
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

After reading through 3 pages of this thread, it's clear to me why so many people are upset over this shooting. They see things playing out as a double-standard on the part of those in authority among local law enforcement, all the support and benefit of the doubt that seem to be going towards the police officer who fired the fatal shot and so much of a "wait and see" attitude that's transpiring with the general public (to which this forum is a part) whereas when a similar incident occurred in the same region of the country only with the races of the cop and the victim reverse where less evidence was initially forthcoming (i.e. cellphone video followed by police dash cam video).

Before proceeding any further, I'd like to thank Common Sense 1 for providing the rules under which police are to activate and deactivate their body cams. (See post #14 and 15) That adds some perspective to the story as to why there was no body cam leading up to the shooting. However, it doesn't quite explain why the police officers' body cams remained off after fact. Moreover, although the OP article mentions that the police dash cam didn't capture the shooting, it gives the impression that the dash cam wasn't on as opposed to it not being in a position to capture the shooting based on the direction the squad car was pointing. (Dash cams don't rotate)

I'll also give adpst some credit for his post #28. It's possible that this was an accidental shooting/accidental discharge of a police firearm". However, one has to ask why would this police officer be so quick to point a loaded gun at a citizen before he realized the nature of the situation he was dealing with? After all, he's responding to a sexual assault (rape) in an alley at night. Isn't it possible the person who approached his squad car is the victim of the assault (rape) and not some dirt bag? Why draw your weapon before assessing the situation?

Based on what's been reported so far, this seems to be yet another example of bad policing. Unfortunately, we're likely to hear the same tired excuse re-affirmed by this police officer, "I feared for my life". However, I don't think that excuse will absolve him of his reckless behavior. Unfortunately, what's liable to happen is law enforcement authority will investigate this woman's death quickly not just because of the public outcry, but because of the international pressure her death will receive. The Black police officer will be found guilty of murder and the jury of his peers won't be of a similar makeup as was Officer Yanez - predominately Black versus predominately White.

In short, race will be made a factor in this case despite the fact that until such evidence proves otherwise, it really shouldn't be. This is either negligence on the part of the police officer or an accident...

I'll wait to find out which.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Objective Voice said:
After reading through 3 pages of this thread, it's clear to me why so many people are upset over this shooting. They see things playing out as a double-standard on the part of those in authority among local law enforcement, all the support and benefit of the doubt that seem to be going towards the police officer who fired the fatal shot and so much of a "wait and see" attitude that's transpiring with the general public (to which this forum is a part) whereas when a similar incident occurred in the same region of the country only with the races of the cop and the victim reverse where less evidence was initially forthcoming (i.e. cellphone video followed by police dash cam video).

Before proceeding any further, I'd like to thank Common Sense 1 for providing the rules under which police are to activate and deactivate their body cams. (See post #14 and 15) That adds some perspective to the story as to why there was no body cam leading up to the shooting. However, it doesn't quite explain why the police officers' body cams remained off after fact. Moreover, although the OP article mentions that the police dash cam didn't capture the shooting, it gives the impression that the dash cam wasn't on as opposed to it not being in a position to capture the shooting based on the direction the squad car was pointing. (Dash cams don't rotate)

I'll also give adpst some credit for his post #28. It's possible that this was an accidental shooting/accidental discharge of a police firearm". However, one has to ask why would this police officer be so quick to point a loaded gun at a citizen before he realized the nature of the situation he was dealing with? After all, he's responding to a sexual assault (rape) in an alley at night. Isn't it possible the person who approached his squad car is the victim of the assault (rape) and not some dirt bag? Why draw your weapon before assessing the situation?

Based on what's been reported so far, this seems to be yet another example of bad policing. Unfortunately, we're likely to hear the same tired excuse re-affirmed by this police officer, "I feared for my life". However, I don't think that excuse will absolve him of his reckless behavior. Unfortunately, what's liable to happen is law enforcement authority will investigate this woman's death quickly not just because of the public outcry, but because of the international pressure her death will receive. The Black police officer will be found guilty of murder and the jury of his peers won't be of a similar makeup as was Officer Yanez - predominately Black versus predominately White.

In short, race will be made a factor in this case despite the fact that until such evidence proves otherwise, it really shouldn't be. This is either negligence on the part of the police officer or an accident...

I'll wait to find out which.
Click to expand...

Yanez could claim "furtive movement" and the presence of a weapon. Whether one agrees with his actions or not, it's a completely different situation than this one.

The only place race will come into play with this incident is in media coverage and local outrage.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

longview said:
As I read through this, I am thinking the lady (Ms. Justine Ruszczyk) walked up to the police car with her phone in her hand, at her side. In describing the assault, she gestured with her hands, which raised the telephone into view of the car window.
The officer in the passenger seat, misinterpreted the movement, thought he saw a weapon being raised, and fired.
Click to expand...

Plausible...

I'm even going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe Officer Mohamed Noor, hearing about a recent ambush cop killing, made a hasty decision out of "fear for his safety/life". But here's the problem with that excuse...

Officer Noor wasn't positioned at the driver's side window. He was the passenger in the squad car.

So, even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I really can't at this point...not without getting more of the facts. After all, the victim here was a woman. So, if these cops were responding to a sexual assault charge, her death at the hand of a police officer is made even worse! Why? Because based on how quick things transpired, it's very unlikely Officer Noor took the time to properly assess who had approached the squad car or more specifically whether the person was male or female. Moreover, he was not at a clear vantage point from the passenger seat to make such an objective determination. But the time, location and "cop-killing climate" of today may be enough to get Officer Noor off with the "feared for my life" excuse...assuming that's the defense he attempts to use.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Objective Voice said:
Plausible...

I'm even going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe Officer Mohamed Noor, hearing about a recent ambush cop killing, made a hasty decision out of "fear for his safety/life". But here's the problem with that excuse...

Officer Noor wasn't positioned at the driver's side window. He was the passenger in the squad car.

So, even if I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, I really can't at this point...not without getting more of the facts. After all, the victim here was a woman. So, if these cops were responding to a sexual assault charge, her death at the hand of a police officer is made even worse! Why? Because based on how quick things transpired, it's very unlikely Officer Noor took the time to properly assess who had approached the squad car or more specifically whether the person was male or female. Moreover, he was not at a clear vantage point from the passenger seat to make such an objective determination. But the time, location and "cop-killing climate" of today may be enough to get Officer Noor off with the "feared for my life" excuse...assuming that's the defense he attempts to use.
Click to expand...
I wan in no way trying to justify the shooting, just thinking of how it may have come about.
The story that is coming out now is that he herd a gunshot or a loud sound as she approached the car.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

longview said:
I wan in no way trying to justify the shooting, just thinking of how it may have come about.
The story that is coming out now is that he herd a gunshot or a loud sound as she approached the car.
Click to expand...

I'm with you...

I'm just saying this will likely be another situation where the cop will probably use "fear for my life" to get away with murder.

But we still don't know all the details. So, we'll see how this plays out in time.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

To try to get some posters up to speed.......

There was no department or legal requirement that they have their bodycams on for this incident until it became a shooting incident--and at that point it was all over. The County Attorney confirmed this with a direct quote.

The leaked information is now that the sound they heard was someone loudly banging on the side or top of the police vehicle.

If that's true and there was no noise that could have been interpreted as a gunshot--the Somalian is definitely toast.

Shooting in response to someone banging on the vehicle will never do as a defense.

So.......it's looking bad for the Somalian. His partner cannot be held responsible for any of it and will not be charged. He may get a letter of reprimand for failing to turn on his bodycam when the shooting occurred, but since he was at that time temporarily deaf and disoriented from the gun going off practically in his right ear......I suspect he'll exit this with a record that's virtually clear.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

longview said:
I wan in no way trying to justify the shooting, just thinking of how it may have come about.
The story that is coming out now is that he herd a gunshot or a loud sound as she approached the car.
Click to expand...

which is completely stupid when you really think about it. "I hear a loud noise and she was running toward the car"..

that could easily describe a civilian running to the police after being shot at. A victim would run to the police FOR SAFETY...

And now they have to be concerned that the most dangerous thing IS the police..
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Vox said:
To try to get some posters up to speed.......

There was no department or legal requirement that they have their bodycams on for this incident until it became a shooting incident--and at that point it was all over. The County Attorney confirmed this with a direct quote.

The leaked information is now that the sound they heard was someone loudly banging on the side or top of the police vehicle.

If that's true and there was no noise that could have been interpreted as a gunshot--the Somalian is definitely toast.

Shooting in response to someone banging on the vehicle will never do as a defense.

So.......it's looking bad for the Somalian. His partner cannot be held responsible for any of it and will not be charged. He may get a letter of reprimand for failing to turn on his bodycam when the shooting occurred, but since he was at that time temporarily deaf and disoriented from the gun going off practically in his right ear......I suspect he'll exit this with a record that's virtually clear.
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Yeah not true. The department policy is that the body cam should be on before making civilian contact.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

jaeger19 said:
Yeah not true. The department policy is that the body cam should be on before making civilian contact.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're wrong again.

Read the thread. The quote from the County Attorney is displayed (in red) several times.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Objective Voice said:
I'm with you...

I'm just saying this will likely be another situation where the cop will probably use "fear for my life" to get away with murder.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are saying this.

Do you think that an officer is ever justified in using deadly force, in any circumstances whatsoever? I do. And if they have reasonable cause to fear for their life, I (and the law) would say that is a legitimate reason to use deadly force. Do you disagree?

And saying that he would use the phrase to "get away with murder suggests you've pre-judged the case.

I don't know if this was an accident, gross incompetence, malicious murder, or self- defense. There aren't enough facts. If it was one of the first three, I will readily condemn it.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

None of this is unusual. It's the outcome of any trial that will tell any difference than in the past. If a Somali cop killing a white woman gets convicted where in the past a white cop killing a black person goes free...
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Vox said:
Yeah, you're wrong again.

Read the thread. The quote from the County Attorney is displayed (in red) several times.
Click to expand...

I read the policy. I am right.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

jaeger19 said:
I read the policy. I am right.
Click to expand...

No, you just don't understand the policy.

He stated clearly that he would like to see cameras turned on in every citizen contact but it is not required.

You really think you know the policy better than the County Attorney of that particular county?

Get real.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

bluesmoke said:
None of this is unusual. It's the outcome of any trial that will tell any difference than in the past. If a Somali cop killing a white woman gets convicted where in the past a white cop killing a black person goes free...
Click to expand...

That could EASILY happen.

It depends on the individual circumstances of each incident......not race.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

vanceen said:
A lot of people are saying this.

Do you think that an officer is ever justified in using deadly force, in any circumstances whatsoever? I do. And if they have reasonable cause to fear for their life, I (and the law) would say that is a legitimate reason to use deadly force. Do you disagree?

And saying that he would use the phrase to "get away with murder suggests you've pre-judged the case.

I don't know if this was an accident, gross incompetence, malicious murder, or self- defense. There aren't enough facts. If it was one of the first three, I will readily condemn it.
Click to expand...

Sure, but that's a loaded question in and of itself.

Of course, police officers should be able to use deadly force and where justified to protect themselves, their fellow officers or a civilian from coming to harm, such deadly force should be properly adjudicated. But it seems what you're implying is police officers should always be allowed to shoot first and ask questions later. I totally disagree with that assessment. For if that were the case, why have police officers, sheriff's or even U.S. Marshalls in the first place? Why not just return to the days of the Ole West and let everyone settle their battles in the center of town, OK Corral-style?

Clearly, there are situations where the police officer will have to make a split second decision, but isn't that what their training helps them to do reflectively? To react instinctively in some instances, ie, combative/hostile situations? Where was the combativeness/hostilities here? In this instance, it would appear this cop was spooked (as I contend was also the case w/Philando Castile) and acted hastily out of irrational fear as opposed to seeing a real threat.

To your question, however, IMO law enforcement officers, particularly those so properly trained in a civilized society where there are rules of engagement intended to protect the population, should be able to use good judgement in order to ascertain the situation as best they can to clearly determine the threat before engaging. If they can't do that before pulling the trigger, maybe they shouldn't don the uniform.
 
Re: Minneapolis woman shot and killed by police after calling 911 to report assault,

Vox said:
That could EASILY happen.

It depends on the individual circumstances of each incident......not race.
Click to expand...

It would be unusual if, in this case, the officer were convicted when in the past it has been so rare. Then the similarity of circumstances to past cases may raise legitimate questions of race as being a factor in the court's decision, given no other comparative difference. As it is, we don't even have all the facts of this case to do any comparison at this point. BTW, you can't say it does not depend on race when one of those individual circumstances you mention could indeed be race. You don't know that.
 
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