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McConnell to delay the vote on health care bill until after July 4 recess

Jredbaron96 said:
Some don't, and they shouldn't be taxed more. Some do, however, and they should be taxed more.
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Thus, giving people an incentive NOT to work harder or make more money.

Brilliant!

As a society, should we really encourage people to work less hard?
 
Bucky said:
Thus, giving people an incentive NOT to work harder or make more money.

Brilliant!

As a society, should we really encourage people to work less hard?
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At no point did I suggest a tax rate so high people cannot harvest the fruits of their labor.
 
Bucky said:
Some people don't have enough money to be paying these ridicolous taxes FYI.
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Cite some data Bucky.

Your bull**** was already called out earlier, you chose to avoid it. 80% of people pay an effective federal tax of 15% and less. How in the **** is that ridiculous taxes, and who the **** can't afford 1-15% taxes, but CAN afford good healthcare and education - < the things democrats want the wealthy to pay via appropriate progressive taxes? Your posting reeks of ignorance.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...til-after-july-4-recess-9.html#post1067353939

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income..._United_States
Total Effective Federal Tax rates:

Lowest 20%:..1.5%
Second:.........7.2%
Third:......... 11.5%
Fourth:....... 15.6%
Fifth/highest: 24%

Top 1%: 29.4%
 
Bucky said:
You just said people who make more money should be taxed more, just for the sake of them making more money.
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No Bucky-ball, it's for two reasons:
1. them covering the taxes affects them the least, and in no way affects any basic needs, shelter, education, children, health insurance, job portability, etc. that they need.
2. our capitalistic system heavily favors capitalists with low market wages, which is fine, IF You use a progressive tax to redistribute much of that concentrated wealth from the top, the education and health of the nation...the nation that provides the market and the security to conduct such capitalism in the first place.

Remember, there are 100% free people in nearly unexplored regions of the world, they enjoy 100% libertarian freedom. Why aren't they billionaires? Education and a market to buy their ideas....so simple.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
If you're going to seize upon semantics instead of presenting an actual argument go ahead. I've already stated that I have no problem paying taxes so that people don't die of treatable or preventable diseases just because they don't have enough money either for insurance or to pay for the medical costs.
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You suggested that there were civilized countries that didn't "let people die" - presumably because citizens pay sufficient taxes so that people who seek help don't die of treatable or preventable diseases. So the question was, where is this occurring?

Wouldn't you agree that Canada's single payer system "lets people die" as they wait in line to someone about a treatable condition, but aren't able to get care in time?
 
Winston said:
Because you actually do care about people's coverage? I get it. I do too. I don't want people to die from lack of health coverage. I oppose lifetime caps, insurance companies raising premiums 5x for older, sicker Americans, I support the mandate, I support expanding Medicaid, I support the pre-existing coverage clause. I support Medicare being able to negotiate drug prices with the pharma companies. I support a public option. I support single-payer. I support mostly Democratic ideas in healthcare. I've made this case to conservatives plenty of times, but, they are too stubborn to change. Since, they believe the market will provide for sick people, let them see for themselves what's going to happen. Can't say I didn't try to tell them what's right and what's wrong. They don't like my ideas because they are "left". Let them try their ideas out and we shall see who is right and who is wrong.

Do you not have confidence in conservative voters to accurately place blame, when people become sicker, poorer, and die younger?
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i respect your position and in fact this is one of the rare times I agree with you. Settle this dispute in the arena of ideas. Dems tried ACA and it failed. Lets see if the GOP can do something better. If they dont we try something else. We keep looking until we find the system that best fits us.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
Taylor said:
Wouldn't you agree that Canada's single payer system "lets people die" as they wait in line to someone about a treatable condition, but aren't able to get care in time?
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It happens, yes, and it's unfortunate. There are also thousands of Canadians who still get treatment. Is that preferable to not having any treatment options at all?

And while we're at it, instead of just singling out Canada, why not the other nation-states with universal healthcare? How about Denmark, Taiwan, Netherlands, Belgium, Croatia, Israel, Algeria?
 
Bucky said:
You just said people who make more money should be taxed more, just for the sake of them making more money.
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Taxation is not a binary act. The choices are more than just "don't tax at all" and "tax them for everything".
 
Bucky said:
Thanks for answering the question. You don't mind waiting 3-5 months for a checkup.
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Canada does have long wait times, but they spend about half what we do per person as a share of GDP. They also have about the same number of doctors per person - around 2.5/1,000 - as we do, and both are at the very bottom of the first world countries. France has around 3.3 for example, Germany and Switzerland around 4.

But if you look at wait times around the world, we do better than most for many specialists because we have a LOT of specialists, and worse or at least no better than other countries for primary care docs. So you can't make generalizations that some kind of single payer, universal healthcare system means longer wait times. Like everything else in healthcare, it depends on the country and we do NOT lead the world in short wait times.
 
Bucky said:
With healthcare debates....


.... it is impossible to argue about the cost implications of health care - in asking who will pay for it, raising the national debt etc.. Rationality and logic go out of the window.
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When you do argue about "the cost implications" do the cost implications of paying for two entire industries instead of just one ever come up? Just asking.
 
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Moderate Right said:
Oh please. Hillary's war chest far exceeded Trump's and in the recent special election in Georgia, liberals poured money into the race. If you want to talk about dirty money then we can talk about the Clinton Foundation.
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Both sides poured money into that Georgia race.
 
"McConnell to delay the vote on health care bill until after July 4 recess"

I wish he would delay it until pigs fly. Hang in there dissenting senators. You have this right.
 
Bucky said:
As a nation, we are yearning for tax cuts. This is an unfortunate setback however I am optimistic this bill will get passed. Mitch mcConnell is the sheriff and will round up the votes!

Tax cuts are needed. Not only will they improve healthcare, but our overall economy.

A shame you don't see 1 Democrat Senator lending a helping hand to Trump or McConnell. Their true colors have been revealed. Democrats don't want to see improved health care. All they want to do is complain.
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Everybody wants improved health care. This bill isn't the answer. Repealing Obamacare without replacement is an improvement.
 
Bucky said:
In America, if you want to go to the hospital you can, rather easilly. They often times accommodate your schedule rather easily. Today is Wednesday, if you want to get to the hospital this week, chances are good you can.

In Canada and other countries, if you want to go to the hospital, you may have to wait weeks or months just to get scheduled in.

So, is waiting 3-5 months for a checkup, efficient?
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If you cannot afford to go to the hospital, you likely would wait even longer than that, possibly multiple years.
 
Bucky said:
If Obamacare is so great, why aren't more younger healthier people buying insurance?
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I didn't buy it because it was more expensive than I could afford, with my other bills. Even the basic plans.

It was a question of continuing to pay off student loans or getting health care, and I went with paying off my current debts (still underway).
Possibly that was a bad decision, but it's been made.

And the no-insurance penalties were far less than it would cost to get insurance.
 
The Mark said:
Both sides poured money into that Georgia race.
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The left started it and, I believe, spent much more. The right was forced to respond to all the money liberals were pouring into the race.
 
Moderate Right said:
The left started it and, I believe, spent much more. The right was forced to respond to all the money liberals were pouring into the race.
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I found this article informative, and it has some useful graphics, which I combined into one image for ease of use:

GA House race 2017.jpg
Edit: So, basically, the Ossoff campaign raised more money, with a much greater percentage of that from out of state, and Handel got more help from the national republican party and various super PACs (which it could be argued was "out of state money").
 
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