North Korea Bests Rocket Engine, Possibly for ICBM - US officials

matchlight said:

If you have reasons to be that confident of this country's ability to intercept ICBM's reliably, I don't know what they are.

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ABM technology may still be in development, but North Korean missile technology is hardly a well structured design system. It'd certainly be easier to shoot down then Chinese or Russian designed ICBMs.

sanman said:

I think your remarks show a very Hollywood-esque understanding of technology.

There is no way to reliably shoot down an ICBM - tests so far have had mixed results.

Do you remember the much-touted Patriot Missile during the Gulf War? Raytheon's missile actually had a very high rate of failure.



It would be relatively easy for the Norks to introduce some modification that would allow their missiles to evade interception, when the US has no mature interception capability. It's all just experimental.

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The primary reason for the failure rate of the Patriots was their still newly developed software; stuff that has been significantly upgraded in the near 30 years since the Gulf War. While it'd be foolish to think the US is entirely safe from ICBMs, North Korea's failure rate indicates they do not posses anywhere near top of the line ballistic missiles.

Mr Person said:

His post is perfectly accurate.

The same thing was true of Saddam, which is why I always thought the war hopelessly stupid even if he really did have a WMD. These kind of leaders know that if they actually ever did use such a weapon against us, they would be annihilated before they finished their first celebratory champagne.

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I don't agree with you on much but I'm with you and LT on this. If we simply ignore them they will just keep on going about their business. They want a nuclear weapon for leverage to dissuade another country from invading them and ending their hold over the country.

Lord Tammerlain said:

He does not seem suicidal does he?

Any nuke launch will result in his death. I am sure he knows that or at least his generals do

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It's not just that he would use his nukes - it's also that he would easily sell his nukes. Iran would quickly acquire any nukes that North Korea develops.

sanman said:

It's not just that he would use his nukes - it's also that he would easily sell his nukes. Iran would quickly acquire any nukes that North Korea develops.

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And Iranian leaders are no more suicidal than NK leaders


And 5 or 6 nukes are not enough for a first strike to be effective and prevent nuclear retaliation

War is long overdue, the Kim regime must be overthrown and the peninsula should go to South Korea or NK needs to become a foreign US territory under US rule. China has propped up the Kim's for years to keep a communist buffer between them and capitalist South Korea. As a result of their actions and inaction to stop one of the most evil governments on earth they should have a US territory right at their door propping up missile defense systems there and bases to also protect SK and Japan/Taiwan from any future Chinese hostility. Diplomacy will not fix this problem.

TheGoverness said:

They probably won't be able to hit the US directly, but possibly South Korea.

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It's just a matter of time until the continental US is under the threat of nuclear attack by North Korea. Basically, we are one president away. Strangely, I don't hear reports of South Korea panicking.

Something isn't adding up.

chuckiechan said:

It's just a matter of time until the continental US is under the threat of nuclear attack by North Korea. Basically, we are one president away. Strangely, I don't hear reports of South Korea panicking.

Something isn't adding up.

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y
South Korea is already in range of a lot of NK's ballistic missiles. Why would the US being in range make them panic if they have not already been panicking?

Lord Tammerlain said:

And Iranian leaders are no more suicidal than NK leaders


And 5 or 6 nukes are not enough for a first strike to be effective and prevent nuclear retaliation

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Why don't you scrap the NPT then - on the grounds that nobody is suicidal, and so the NPT is not necessary.

Lord Tammerlain said:

y
South Korea is already in range of a lot of NK's ballistic missiles. Why would the US being in range make them panic if they have not already been panicking?

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I'm talking about the civilian population. They should be on the verge of panic I would think.

chuckiechan said:

I'm talking about the civilian population. They should be on the verge of panic I would think.

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So was I

Why would they panic now. They have been in range of NK missiles for a long time. The capital is in reach of thousands of NK guns

sanman said:

Why don't you scrap the NPT then - on the grounds that nobody is suicidal, and so the NPT is not necessary.

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It can serve to prevent regional conflicts from going nuclear, but it is going to fail as enough countries have bypassed it to cause others to probably desire to as well

The easy way for North Korea to overcome any US missile defense system, is to simply oversaturate it by launching a larger number of missiles.

North Korea already has intermediate range missiles which threaten US allies in the region. It has missiles, rocketry and long-range artillery which threaten all of South Korea and could wreak havoc on the southern half of the peninsula in short order. If it successfully develops long-range ICBMs they will be likely used to counter-threaten the USA in the event of the threat or the actual use of military intervention into North Korea by the Americans. They need not be nuclear armed to do this. imagine the panic in America when five or six missiles hit Hawaii, Alaska or the US west coast with just conventional weapons. These ICBMs will thus primarily be defensive in nature, from the North Korean perspective deterring outside interference or military intervention.

Should North Korea want to attack the US with nuclear weapons and thus commit national suicide, it could do so already by delivering the atomic bombs by sub-launched mini-subs or motor launches into American ports. It could also use commercial shipping to deliver well shielded and secreted atomics hidden in containers carrying seemly innocuous goods.

The North Koreans have been living with the threat of US attack since the cessation of hostilities at the end of the Korean conflict. Now the US will have to do the same. This will likely stabilise the region rather than destabilising it.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

sanman said:

North Korea has tested what appears to be the booster engine for an ICBM:

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/north-korea-tests-rocket-engine-possibly-for-icbm-us-officials.html





Look - this is getting really dire, here - if they get nuclear-tipped ICBMs, they'll be able to hold a nuclear knife to everyone's throats. Apparently China doesn't seem to give a damn, because they're counting on their client to stay in line towards them - which is a stupid bet - but that plan throws America under a bus.

These nuts clearly aren't backing off or standing down - they're going for broke - the bottom line is that there's going to have to be a war here.

What treaties get broken if the US uses tactical nukes on them?

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I detect a little tooooooo much paranoia here; the world has had thousands of nukes pointed in every which direction for decades & the only ones I recall going off both landed somewhere in Japan about 72 years ago.

I wouldn't get too concerned about Don Cheeto's little fat friend with the screwy hair cut there in North Korea being much of a threat with his little toys that typically don't work so well .....

cuban smokes said:

I detect a little tooooooo much paranoia here; the world has had thousands of nukes pointed in every which direction for decades & the only ones I recall going off both landed somewhere in Japan about 72 years ago.

I wouldn't get too concerned about Don Cheeto's little fat friend with the screwy hair cut there in North Korea being much of a threat with his little toys that typically don't work so well .....

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You're mistaken - the fat North Korean kid is a product of left-wing cultism - just like the Clinton Dynasty.

Those thousands of nukes were mainly in the hands of two specific superpowers, who were mature and sober enough to maintain stable relations with each other, so that they didn't accidentally blow the world up. Fat Kim is nowhere near being so mature or sober.

digsbe said:

War is long overdue, the Kim regime must be overthrown and the peninsula should go to South Korea or NK needs to become a foreign US territory under US rule. China has propped up the Kim's for years to keep a communist buffer between them and capitalist South Korea. As a result of their actions and inaction to stop one of the most evil governments on earth they should have a US territory right at their door propping up missile defense systems there and bases to also protect SK and Japan/Taiwan from any future Chinese hostility. Diplomacy will not fix this problem.

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Okay Digs. Now explain just exactly we're supposed to do that, without sparking off a major war that kills untold numbers of people against the most populated state in the world that is literally right above the nation you're talking about invading.

sanman said:

You're mistaken - the fat North Korean kid is a product of left-wing cultism - just like the Clinton Dynasty.

Those thousands of nukes were mainly in the hands of two specific superpowers, who were mature and sober enough to maintain stable relations with each other, so that they didn't accidentally blow the world up. Fat Kim is nowhere near being so mature or sober.

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well, I for one believe Kim is just a fat ass jerk off so, we prolly agree on that BUT if the North Korean regime were to ever utilize nukes I'm sure they have at least the minimum required number of brain cells to understand that would earn them a pretty big can of Mushroom Cloud Soup ..............

cuban smokes said:

well, I for one believe Kim is just a fat ass jerk off so, we prolly agree on that BUT if the North Korean regime were to ever utilize nukes I'm sure they have at least the minimum required number of brain cells to understand that would earn them a pretty big can of Mushroom Cloud Soup ..............

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Fat Kim is ruthless and desperate enough to sell his nukes/missiles to any rogue buyer who puts up the money for them. This could mean a rogue state - or even a terrorist group.

He'll become the new shining savior for terrorists and scumbags everywhere.