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17-year-old Muslim girl assaulted and killed after leaving Virginia mosque

TheGoverness said:
Uh, you do realise that there are plenty of Muslims who are also American citizens too, right? Or are they also just dirty foreigners to you?
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By law they are named as such. By culture they are about as American as a Chinese rice farmer.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
For the same reason when a muslim commits a crime it is always mentioned they are muslim even if it had no part in why they committed the crime
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There is a difference between someone committing a crime that happens to be Muslim and someone committing a crime because they are Muslim and do it in the name of their religion. If you can't tell the difference then you have some work to do on developing critical thinking skills.
 
Ikari said:
What has Christianity done? What does the bible say regarding women's rights and such? No religion is completely innocent, and it wasn't until the west removed Christianity from the government that things improved. Theocracy is in general a bad thing, it corrupts State and Religion alike. From Inquisitions to burning witches, what makes you think any religion has some moral high-road? The problem places tend to be where religion is entwined with government.

But the father lived here peacefully and within our laws, it would seem, since 87. Became a citizen. Had 4 kids. It's the American Dream, and you would deny that based on nothing more than religion. I think that's the anti-American ideal here.
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Given that this nation is mostly composed of Christians, has historically been nearly unanimously Christian, and developed within a Christian milieu, it would be foolish to let in that religion which is most militarily hostile to Christianity.
 
phattonez said:
Given that this nation is mostly composed of Christians, has historically been nearly unanimously Christian, and developed within a Christian milieu, it would be foolish to let in that religion which is most militarily hostile to Christianity.
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It's not "unanimously" Christian. And our government was formed secular on secular ideals. The father and his kids are American citizens, but you'd throw them under the bus because of their religion. Which they practiced peaceably in this Republic, without any sort of Religious War the likes you want to drag up. But just because of their religion, you want to kick them out.

People like you are why we have a secular government in the first place.
 
phattonez said:
I don't see the world as billions of potential Americans, no. With that view, what's the point of a nation?
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What a pathetic dodge.


Tell me, what of the millions of Blacks, Hispanics and Asians that have served in this country's armed forces? What happens if an American citizen decides to convert to Islam? Do we revoke his citizenship?
 
phattonez said:
Given that this nation is mostly composed of Christians, has historically been nearly unanimously Christian, and developed within a Christian milieu, it would be foolish to let in that religion which is most militarily hostile to Christianity.
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Sounds like something a radical imam would say in support of Sharia law.
 
Ikari said:
It's not "unanimously" Christian. And our government was formed secular on secular ideals.
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Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? There's mention of words like God and creator all over the place. Again, this isn't about the individual faith and orthodoxy of every Founding Father, but about the culture which produced them, which was thoroughly Christian.

The father and his kids are American citizens, but you'd throw them under the bus because of their religion. Which they practiced peaceably in this Republic, without any sort of Religious War the likes you want to drag up. But just because of their religion, you want to kick them out.
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I've just said that there's no reason that they should have been allowed here in the first place. Deny it as you might, this is still a Christian culture. It's been severely corrupted and has a lot of secularism, to be sure, but it's still no reason to give up and basically make the claim that culture doesn't matter and that everyone can come here.
 
phattonez said:
Oh liberals and their dramatics. Just because I don't think that we should be importing them here doesn't mean that I want them all dead. Are you seriously unable to comprehend that culture matters, and that I think that we ought to be preserving our culture, or at least what's left of it?
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Those Muslim kids went to McDonald's, whose golden arches represent American culture.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
What a pathetic dodge.

Tell me, what of the millions of Blacks, Hispanics and Asians that have served in this country's armed forces? What happens if an American citizen decides to convert to Islam? Do we revoke his citizenship?
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We've allowed people to convert to whatever religion they want for this country's entire history. Notice that we've remained thoroughly Christian throughout that time, and that it only started changing significantly when we let in lots of people of foreign religions.
 
Verax said:
Sounds like something a radical imam would say in support of Sharia law.
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And they have Sharia Law in their countries. And that's fine if that's what they want. They can have it in their countries. I don't want it here. I rather like the culture that we have and I don't want to see it replaced.
 
phattonez said:
I see you subscribe to the magic dirt theory. Simply being born here makes you American and that's that.

There is a culture associated with America, and it's one that Muslims simply want no part of. They have their own religion, own dress, and they look out for their own. Do you seriously think that there is no such thing as clash of culture?
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A culture that is born of immigrants from all over the world.

The American culture is diverse, that is what makes it unique and great.


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phattonez said:
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? There's mention of words like God and creator all over the place. \
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The Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document with regards to the laws and foundation of this country; the US Constitution is, which quite clearly states in the First Amendment that this nation is founded on the principles of freedom of religion.
 
Whythink said:
A culture that is born of immigrants from all over the world.

The American culture is diverse, that is what makes it unique and great.


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Exactly. We are a big ol' melting pot.
 
phattonez said:
I see you subscribe to the magic dirt theory. Simply being born here makes you American and that's that.

There is a culture associated with America, and it's one that Muslims simply want no part of. They have their own religion, own dress, and they look out for their own. Do you seriously think that there is no such thing as clash of culture?
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They said that about the Chinese, Irish, Italians, Germans, Jews...and Catholics, too.
 
TheGoverness said:
A Chinese rice farmer can't be American? What exactly is an "American" in your opinion?
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Does a Chinese rice farmer speak English? Does he have our traditions? Our holidays? How do you think he would get along in our institutions? Our courts? Would he understand them? I would be totally at a loss in Chinese society, and he here. You seem to have a rudimentary understanding of culture and its importance.
 
Whythink said:
A culture that is born of immigrants from all over the world.

The American culture is diverse, that is what makes it unique and great.
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Given that most Americans are born to Americans, this is a meaningless statement.
 
phattonez said:
And they have Sharia Law in their countries. And that's fine if that's what they want. They can have it in their countries. I don't want it here. I rather like the culture that we have and I don't want to see it replaced.
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What exactly is our culture?
 
phattonez said:
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? There's mention of words like God and creator all over the place. Again, this isn't about the individual faith and orthodoxy of every Founding Father, but about the culture which produced them, which was thoroughly Christian.



I've just said that there's no reason that they should have been allowed here in the first place. Deny it as you might, this is still a Christian culture. It's been severely corrupted and has a lot of secularism, to be sure, but it's still no reason to give up and basically make the claim that culture doesn't matter and that everyone can come here.
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Though, I don't really think that we are as much a Christian culture as its Nemesis.
 
devildavid said:
Those Muslim kids went to McDonald's, whose golden arches represent American culture.
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TheGoverness said:
Along with the diabetes. ;)
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And therein is the heart of this debate. It's not about multiculturalism per se. It's about critiquing American culture, debasing it, and essentially deciding that it's not worth protecting.

There's a reason that people call our current state of affairs Weimerica. This is very similar to German culture during the Weimar Republic.
 
phattonez said:
Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence? There's mention of words like God and creator all over the place. Again, this isn't about the individual faith and orthodoxy of every Founding Father, but about the culture which produced them, which was thoroughly Christian.
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Have you ever read the US Constitution? How many times is god mentioned there? And not every founding father was Christian.

phattonez said:
I've just said that there's no reason that they should have been allowed here in the first place. Deny it as you might, this is still a Christian culture. It's been severely corrupted and has a lot of secularism, to be sure, but it's still no reason to give up and basically make the claim that culture doesn't matter and that everyone can come here.
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There was no reason to have denied them either. Deny it as you might. You have no evidence that this man did not assimilate into our culture, that his kids had not assimilated, that he or they were openly hostile to our culture. All you have is their religion and you're making attacks based on nothing more than that. Truly anti-American.
 
phattonez said:
We've allowed people to convert to whatever religion they want for this country's entire history.
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Indeed. So you're okay with that, good.


Notice that we've remained thoroughly Christian throughout that time, and that it only started changing significantly when we let in lots of people of foreign religions.
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The majority of Hispanic immigrants are Christian. By comparison, the Muslim population is just 1%, and the total increase of Muslims in the US through immigration is just 50%. There are as many Americans converting to Islam as there are immigrating.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The Declaration of Independence is not a legally binding document with regards to the laws and foundation of this country; the US Constitution is, which quite clearly states in the First Amendment that this nation is founded on the principles of freedom of religion.
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Therefore what? The Declaration of Independence isn't culturally significant?
 
phattonez said:
There's a reason that people call our current state of affairs Weimerica. This is very similar to German culture during the Weimar Republic.
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I'm going to give you a chance to stop right there before you start comparing America to the Wiemar Republic, because that is a very bad and stupid road to go down.
 
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