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Trump unveils new restrictions on travel, business with Cuba

Praxas said:
Instead you support rewarding a country like Saudi Arabia for giving us hijackers that killed thousands.
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And arbitrarily behead their citizens for "witchcraft"
 
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apdst said:
So, Obama's deal is crap and should be reversed?
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I'd prefer not working with any country that has a horribly corrupt government. This isn't a reversal of Obama's deal. It puts restrictions on certain things.

Donald Trump Cuba policy travel and business restrictions - Business Insider

The article I linked is worth reading. It looks like Trump's deal could have some unintended consequences.

The order "reinstates requirement for Americans to come only with tour groups, which are, on Cuban end, controlled by government

"Cuban [Airbnb operators] can't accommodate group tours, forcing tour operators to use Cuban [government] hotels," he added. "[Individual travelers] are lifeblood of entrepreneurs."

If the point of the deal is to normalize relations and hope that their government changes over time we should be encouraging entrepreneurs in their country. We will have to wait and see what kind of fallout comes from this.
 
apdst said:
Just admit that this is just another anti-Trump bitchfest.

Not a single one of you can present an argument for why this is a bad idea.
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Because in the least it is hypocrisy, not something that seems to bother you or the rest of the trumplicans.
 
Praxas said:
Instead you support rewarding a country like Saudi Arabia for giving us hijackers that killed thousands.
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And that's when they aren't praising Putin.
 
apdst said:
You were going to go spend money in Cuba and fund the government's oppression?
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Lots of Canadian and European companies do business with Cuba, with people from those countries willing to visit Cuba.

I don't think is a good idea because the embargo has been around for more then 50 years and failed to change Cuba. Perhaps engagement with Cuba would create changes that the embargo failed to create?

You can't pull the morality card, unless you advocate the US not trade with any undemocratic country.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Lots of Canadian and European companies do business with Cuba, with people from those countries willing to visit Cuba.

I don't think is a good idea because the embargo has been around for more then 50 years and failed to change Cuba. Perhaps engagement with Cuba would create changes that the embargo failed to create?

You can't pull the morality card, unless you advocate the US not trade with any undemocratic country.
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You support government oppression?
 
prometeus said:
Because in the least it is hypocrisy, not something that seems to bother you or the rest of the trumplicans.
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As opposed to supporting opening trade and travel with Cuba while condemning Saudi Arabia? Hypocrisy cuts both ways.
 
Chomsky said:
Politics to shore up the Cuban vote to keep FL in 2020. Which may, or may not work.

Meanwhile, the rest of the country suffers.

There goes my Cuba trip ...
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I'm curious as I have had friends visit Cuba on tours, but from a CNN story:

"The Trump administration will begin strictly enforcing the authorized exemptions that allow travel between the US and Cuba and prohibit commerce with Cuban businesses owned by the military and intelligence services."

Were you planning to travel to Cuba for a reason other than one of the exemptions, of which an educational tour is one?
 
MrPeanut said:
I'd prefer not working with any country that has a horribly corrupt government. This isn't a reversal of Obama's deal. It puts restrictions on certain things.

Donald Trump Cuba policy travel and business restrictions - Business Insider

The article I linked is worth reading. It looks like Trump's deal could have some unintended consequences.

The order "reinstates requirement for Americans to come only with tour groups, which are, on Cuban end, controlled by government

"Cuban [Airbnb operators] can't accommodate group tours, forcing tour operators to use Cuban [government] hotels," he added. "[Individual travelers] are lifeblood of entrepreneurs."

If the point of the deal is to normalize relations and hope that their government changes over time we should be encouraging entrepreneurs in their country. We will have to wait and see what kind of fallout comes from this.
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The bolded is my immediate problem.

I'll now have to be part of some commercial for-profit government regulated enterprise with a fixed itinerary, rather than have my liberty as a free individual citizen! And get this: If a CNN guest is to be believed, I am going to now be "audited for compliance" with that itinerary upon my return! Government Audited? Wha?

I'm getting really tired of Trump's authoritarian crap.

And never is anything ever done by him through the People's House! All E.O.'s!
 
apdst said:
You support government oppression?
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Please, you are trying to ask me a loaded question, based on emotionalism rather then then a rational factual argument. I am not going to answer such a ridiculous question.

Why not just ask someone "so when did you stop beating your wife?"

Has the embargo brought Democracy to Cuba? Clearly it hasn't, so why has it failed?

Doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting different results is not rational.
 
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Chomsky said:
The bolded is my immediate problem.

I'll now have to be part of some commercial for-profit government regulated enterprise with a fixed itinerary, rather than have my liberty as a free individual citizen! And get this: If a CNN guest is to be believed, I am going to now be "audited for compliance" with that itinerary upon my return! Government Audited? Wha?

I'm getting really tired of Trump's authoritarian crap.

And never is anything ever done by him through the People's House! All E.O.'s!
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Liberty...in Cuba? That's funny.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm curious as I have had friends visit Cuba on tours, but from a CNN story:

"The Trump administration will begin strictly enforcing the authorized exemptions that allow travel between the US and Cuba and prohibit commerce with Cuban businesses owned by the military and intelligence services."

Were you planning to travel to Cuba for a reason other than one of the exemptions, of which an educational tour is one?
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No.

But I was going as a free individual on my own liberty.

Now I must be part of a commercial for-profit government regulated enterprise, and apparently I will now be audited for compliance with the itinerary when I return! At risk of a hefty fine! Argh!

I don't need, nor want, this corporate and government interference in my life.
 
Yes_Minister said:
Please, you are trying to ask me a loaded question, based on emotionalism rather then then a rational factual argument. I am not going to answer such a ridiculous question.

Why not just ask someone "so when did you stop beating your wife?"

Has the embargo brought Democracy to Cuba? Clearly it hasn't, so why has it failed?

Doing the same thing, over and over again and expecting different results us not rational.
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You said it's all, or none, basically. I'm wondering which side you come down on.
 
Moon said:
Liberty...in Cuba? That's funny.
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Yes. At liberty to set my own itinerary.

I expect authoritarianism in some third world countries. I don't need it from my own government.
 
Chomsky said:
Yes. At liberty to set my own itinerary.

I expect authoritarianism in some third world countries. I don't need it from my own government.
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Once you set foot in Cuba, you have no liberty. That's kind of the while thing about Cuba.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
I'm curious as I have had friends visit Cuba on tours, but from a CNN story:

"The Trump administration will begin strictly enforcing the authorized exemptions that allow travel between the US and Cuba and prohibit commerce with Cuban businesses owned by the military and intelligence services."

Were you planning to travel to Cuba for a reason other than one of the exemptions, of which an educational tour is one?
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Just to add to my previous post:

I was planning to take my own commercial flight leaving from my local international airport. They recently started flights directly to HAV.

I had no intentions of using a tour service. Apparently now I'll have to, and I'll be required to conform to their itinerary, and apparently will be government audited for compliance upon return.

I'm not at all happy about this.
 
Chomsky said:
Yes. At liberty to set my own itinerary.

I expect authoritarianism in some third world countries. I don't need it from my own government.
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Your hysterics are over the top, which is so unlike you. Please come join us in the rational world. The government initiating requirements to visit certain countries if hardly authoritarian.
 
apdst said:
You said it's all, or none, basically. I'm wondering which side you come down on.
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You missed my point, I am saying making a moral argument against trading with Cuba, doesn't make sense if the US still trades with China or Saudi Arabia or any undemocratic country.

So if the moral argument doesn't work, you think with a pragmatic argument and what is the pragmatic argument against trading with Cuba? I don't think there is a good one. I don't think it makes things better for the Cuban people, I don't think it will change the government, all its going to do is ensure some Canadian company will make money there, rather then an American one.
 
Bucky said:
What's stupid is Obama being silient on Cuba creating an asylum for murderers and cop killers and not addressing it.
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Cuba is aligned with Obama's philosophy on politics and dissidents.
 
Moon said:
Once you set foot in Cuba, you have no liberty. That's kind of the while thing about Cuba.
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Oh go con somewhere else.

My government just additionally constrained my liberty.

Your argument of, "It's fine for the U.S. government to constrain one's liberty, because Cuba does", is B.S. if I ever heard it.
 
Bucky said:
Thank goodness. This is about sending a larger message about freedom and democracy.
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If its about freedom and democracy then why isnt he doing that with Saudi Arabia too?
 
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