• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Woman who sent texts urging boyfriend's suicide guilty of manslaughter

Fenton Lum said:
Yeah, see what I mean? The teenager was armed with a sidewalk.
Click to expand...
No no no

He was armed with arms.

Arms strong enough to overpower Zimmerman and then begin the bashing... so I guess if any ordinary item, two x four, tire iron, scissors, binoculars, whatever is handy is used then its okay to use it to injure in your opinion?

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
 
Ikari said:
It's hard to say what the punishment would be. She was a minor at the time, so it's all tried under the same thing.

There is a worry about precedent, they will need to walk a very tight line. I think in this case because she discussed ways to kill himself, encouraged it, and even when he wanted to stop, went on to get him back into the truck instead of help, that there may be some line crossed. But it was a tough case and the judge had to make a really tough call on this one.

No matter what, she showed a complete lack of empathy or morality through the whole event.
Click to expand...

The bolded was my main point. This goes beyond premeditation. It wasn't an 'act in a moment of passion'.

I think the judge made the right call. If I were deciding on punishment it would be something like a long probation with some kind of therapy.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Meh, that will ultimately depend upon your station in society and your ability to pay for legal representation.
Click to expand...

Well everything's always dependent upon that. There was that kid that DUI killed a bunch of folk and didn't get any jail time. Rich and well connected folk very rarely pay for the crimes they commit.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
No no no

He was armed with arms.

Arms strong enough to overpower Zimmerman and then begin the bashing... so I guess if any ordinary item, two x four, tire iron, scissors, binoculars, whatever is handy is used then its okay to use it to injure in your opinion?

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Zimmerman's a dumbass who went looking for trouble and found more than he could handle in a kid. Panicked. Murdered.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
The bolded was my main point. This goes beyond premeditation. It wasn't an 'act in a moment of passion'.

I think the judge made the right call. If I were deciding on punishment it would be something like a long probation with some kind of therapy.
Click to expand...

Interesting, so we can apply this to politicans now and their rhetoric?
 
Fenton Lum said:
Interesting, so we can apply this to politicans now and their rhetoric?
Click to expand...

Yup.

If some politicians conspires with someone for months on how to kill themselves, encourages them to kill themselves, discusses the best way to do so, where to do so, helps to plan it, and when that individual tries to stop, convinces them otherwise; they can then equally be held accountable as in this case.
 
Ikari said:
Yup.

If some politicians conspires with someone for months on how to kill themselves, encourages them to kill themselves, discusses the best way to do so, where to do so, helps to plan it, and when that individual tries to stop, convinces them otherwise; they can then equally be held accountable as in this case.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point. Suicide only.
 
Whythink said:
Interesting to see this. I just wonder what the sentence should be. There is quite the range from probation to years.

Definitely guilty in my opinion but the victim was 18. Should that impact the sentence? What would be different if the ages were 14 and 15?

https://usat.ly/2sAEwR5

"TAUNTON, Mass. - A woman who sent her boyfriend a barrage of text messages urging him to kill himself when they were both teenagers was convicted Friday of involuntary manslaughter."

"The judge ruled that Carter, now 20, can remain free on bail but ordered her not to make any contact with Roy’s family and can’t leave the state. She faces a sentence of probation to 20 years in prison."
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This is crazy, and should be appealed. Many years ago, someone who didn't like me told me I should kill myself. I'm still here. That was MY decision. What happened here was HIS decision.

'Ya know, if suggestions like this actually work, I'm glad I told that asshole to go **** himself. LOL.
 
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Higgins86 said:
Sets a dangerous precedent in my eyes, where do we draw the line?
If I walk past someone trying to jump off a bridge and do nothing to stop them am I now vulnerable for prosecution?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the more accurate comparison be:

"If I walk past someone trying to jump off a bridge, I tell the person 'jump! don't chicken out now, jump!', and then I don't call the police am I now vulnerable for prosecution?"

And the answer would seem to be "yes". And I'm unsure if it's really that unreasonable of a notion, though I'm unsure if manslaughter is necessarily the right thing.

Plus, even my above example isn't really a good relationship with what this case showed, which wasn't a one time, isolated, in the heat of the moment encouragement but rather an orchestrated and continual attempt to convince an individual to take their own life up to and including during the very moment the act was being engaged in.
 
Last edited:
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Zyphlin said:
Wouldn't the more accurate comparison be:

"If I walk past someone trying to jump off a bridge, I tell the person 'jump! don't chicken out now, jump!', and then I don't call the police am I now vulnerable for prosecution?"

And the answer would seem to be "yes". And it doesn't seem like that'd be an unreasonable answer.
Click to expand...

Note to self, don't call, keep walking.
 
danarhea said:
This is crazy, and should be appealed. Many years ago, someone who didn't like me told me I should kill myself. I'm still here. That was MY decision. What happened here was HIS decision.

'Ya know, if suggestions like this actually work, I'm glad I told that asshole to go **** himself. LOL.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that such a flippant remark would bear the same results. The kid was already suicidal and needed help. Then there was a long period of time of her encouraging him to commit suicide, discussing the best way to do it, planning it, discussing where it should be. And when the kid wanted to back out, she intervened again and had him go through with it.

It's certainly not open/shut, and it is controversial. However, let's not pretend that this was some flippant remark said in passing. She put a lot of effort and prep work into getting him to kill himself and never once alerted anyone or tried to get him help instead.
 
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Ikari said:
If you spent several days/weeks talking with them about killing themselves, advised them on the best place to jump to their death, encouraged them to do so, and when they wanted to call it off, convinced them not to and jump to their death...then yes you would be vulnerable for prosecution.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This was kind of the point I was trying to make. Comparing what happened here, and what the ruling was based off of, to someone just happening by a guy on a bridge and not doing anything about it is a ridiculous poor analogy.
 
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Zyphlin said:
Thank you. This was kind of the point I was trying to make. Comparing what happened here, and what the ruling was based off of, to someone just happening by a guy on a bridge and not doing anything about it is a ridiculous poor analogy.
Click to expand...

The point is how much accountability are we going to start having to start looking at in all suicide cases, especially in the minefields of social media. The example I gave was of course dramatic but it was supposed to make the point of " where does it end". Again this case is unprecedented and I think its important distinctions are made.

Also in this particular case she text him for a number of months encouraging him to seek help etc. It's really not as black and white as some are making out.
 
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Higgins86 said:
The point is how much accountability are we going to start having to start looking at in all suicide cases, especially in the minefields of social media. The example I gave was of course dramatic but it was supposed to make the point of " where does it end". Again this case is unprecedented and I think its important distinctions are made.

Also in this particular case she text him for a number of months encouraging him to seek help etc. It's really not as black and white as some are making out.
Click to expand...

She had started with those, but soon after went the other way and spent months encouraging them.

And yes, this may get rather sticky, with what we see in the decline of empathy/morality in our children and the use of social media to relentlessly bully kids. But that's why we have judges and juries.

In the end, want to stay out of prison, don't encourage and help people kill themselves. Hell Kovorkian learned that lesson the hard way too.
 
Fenton Lum said:
Pffffffffffffffft, yeah, your media is "extremist" but your political system ain't.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of overlap between 'media' and 'gov.', but that has nothing to do with a case where one individual talks another individual into suicide, does it?
 
Fenton Lum said:
Zimmerman's a dumbass who went looking for trouble and found more than he could handle in a kid. Panicked. Murdered.
Click to expand...
Ummm, I know you guys are angling that direction, but has yet to become a dictatorship and so we still have innocent until proven guilty and jury trials where peers get to decide and so it's not just all about your pitiful conclusion of guilt and what's what. I wouldn't, probably, maybe have done what Z did either.

Then I checked the incredible level of crime in the Sanford area, rapes, robberies, break-ins, car jacks, rampant stealing whatever ... sometimes, if law enforcement is not up to it or just simply spread too thin to adequately protect and serve, it becomes a high noon 'sitchieashon' .

Gotta put your big boy pants on, put the foot down at times

Sorry if the bad guys, truly bad guys, sometimes end up down... bettern the 'gooder guys' down

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
 
<alt>doxygen said:
There's a lot of overlap between 'media' and 'gov.', but that has nothing to do with a case where one individual talks another individual into suicide, does it?
Click to expand...

Interesting. The overlap is corporate control of both. And we never want to look at our system, just individuals. I'm sorry, if you wish to convict folks of contribution to death via conversation, I can't follow you there. But our govt has already often led the way on murdering people for talking and having "dangerous" ideas. That's our system.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Ummm, I know you guys are angling that direction, but has yet to become a dictatorship and so we still have innocent until proven guilty and jury trials where peers get to decide and so it's not just all about your pitiful conclusion of guilt and what's what. I wouldn't, probably, maybe have done what Z did either.

Then I checked the incredible level of crime in the Sanford area, rapes, robberies, break-ins, car jacks, rampant stealing whatever ... sometimes, if law enforcement is not up to it or just simply spread too thin to adequately protect and serve, it becomes a high noon 'sitchieashon' .

Gotta put your big boy pants on, put the foot down at times

Sorry if the bad guys, truly bad guys, sometimes end up down... bettern the 'gooder guys' down

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


And OJ was "innocent" too.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Most probably... your point?

I, again, don't remember OJ in the midst of having his brains bashed out

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

And neither was he a kid stalked by a screw up wannabe son of a former sherrif.
 
Re: Manslaughter for texting bf to kill self

Ikari said:
She had started with those, but soon after went the other way and spent months encouraging them.

And yes, this may get rather sticky, with what we see in the decline of empathy/morality in our children and the use of social media to relentlessly bully kids. But that's why we have judges and juries.

In the end, want to stay out of prison, don't encourage and help people kill themselves. Hell Kovorkian learned that lesson the hard way too.
Click to expand...
I agree with your latter sentiment.

I think it's, suicide, is still illegal in most states. So at minimum she would be an accessory in planning a crime, a homicide by suicide

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
 
Fenton Lum said:
And neither was he a kid stalked by a screw up wannabe son of a former sherrif.
Click to expand...
A kid bigger and stronger than the adult, a not very good kid, what some call a thug who jumped and started assaulting the wrong guy.

Ya picks your battles, some battles being far less optimal even should you win... and you win some and should expect to lose some... he chose extremely poorly

Sent from my SM-J700M using Tapatalk
 
Whythink said:
Interesting to see this. I just wonder what the sentence should be. There is quite the range from probation to years.

Definitely guilty in my opinion but the victim was 18. Should that impact the sentence? What would be different if the ages were 14 and 15?

https://usat.ly/2sAEwR5

"TAUNTON, Mass. - A woman who sent her boyfriend a barrage of text messages urging him to kill himself when they were both teenagers was convicted Friday of involuntary manslaughter."

"The judge ruled that Carter, now 20, can remain free on bail but ordered her not to make any contact with Roy’s family and can’t leave the state. She faces a sentence of probation to 20 years in prison."
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Give her the same sentence as he got in clockwork Orange movie

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom