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Trump calls it a travel ban — lawyers call it sabotage

Angelus

Angelus

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Trump calls it a travel ban ? lawyers call it sabotage | TheHill

In a series of 140-character barbs, Trump on Monday complained his administration had created a “watered down, politically correct version” of the executive order he originally signed temporarily banning travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. ***

George Conway, a prominent attorney who is married to senior Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, wrote on Twitter that the president’s tweets “may make some ppl feel better, but they certainly won’t help [the Office of the Solicitor General] get 5 votes in [the Supreme Court], which is what actually matters. Sad.”

***

“The Justice Dept. should have stayed with the original Travel Ban, not the watered down, politically correct version they submitted to S.C.,” Trump tweeted, while urging the department to work on a “much tougher version in the meantime.”

Like lawyers at the Justice Department, Trump’s top aides have insisted that the policy is not a travel ban. “It’s not a Muslim ban. It’s not a travel ban,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters on Jan. 31. “It’s a vetting system to keep America safe.”

But Trump on Monday made it clear he disagrees.

“People, the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!” Trump tweeted


So the Trump-pets have been arguing that this is not a ban - NOT A BAN! No Ban Here - move along.

Then just at the critical point of the current appeal, Trump announces to the world he regrets that the Justice Department force him to make this weak PC version of a ban, and he intends to go for a ban with real teeth. They guy just does not seem to get it. He is a president - not an emperor or a king. We live in a constitutional democracy where there are three co-equal branches of govt. The court system will not go away because he wants it to.

Trump is incapable of getting anything done because he can't accept the fact that others have a say in what happens. A Travel Ban is exactly what the courts have objected to - it is exactly what the justice department has insisted doesn't exist.

This guy just gives a new meaning to stupid.
 
Angelus said:
Trump calls it a travel ban ? lawyers call it sabotage | TheHill

In a series of 140-character barbs, Trump on Monday complained his administration had created a “watered down, politically correct version” of the executive order he originally signed temporarily banning travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. ***

George Conway, a prominent attorney who is married to senior Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, wrote on Twitter that the president’s tweets “may make some ppl feel better, but they certainly won’t help [the Office of the Solicitor General] get 5 votes in [the Supreme Court], which is what actually matters. Sad.”

***

“The Justice Dept. should have stayed with the original Travel Ban, not the watered down, politically correct version they submitted to S.C.,” Trump tweeted, while urging the department to work on a “much tougher version in the meantime.”

Like lawyers at the Justice Department, Trump’s top aides have insisted that the policy is not a travel ban. “It’s not a Muslim ban. It’s not a travel ban,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters on Jan. 31. “It’s a vetting system to keep America safe.”

But Trump on Monday made it clear he disagrees.

“People, the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!” Trump tweeted


So the Trump-pets have been arguing that this is not a ban - NOT A BAN! No Ban Here - move along.

Then just at the critical point of the current appeal, Trump announces to the world he regrets that the Justice Department force him to make this weak PC version of a ban, and he intends to go for a ban with real teeth. They guy just does not seem to get it. He is a president - not an emperor or a king. We live in a constitutional democracy where there are three co-equal branches of govt. The court system will not go away because he wants it to.

Trump is incapable of getting anything done because he can't accept the fact that others have a say in what happens. A Travel Ban is exactly what the courts have objected to - it is exactly what the justice department has insisted doesn't exist.

This guy just gives a new meaning to stupid.
Click to expand...

Either that or he is way smarter than you.
 
Angelus said:
Care to elucidate? What strategy do you think he's employing?
Click to expand...

Proving to America that he is not going to let Washington warp him like it warped Obama, the last man we sent to do the job, that miserable prick.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Proving to America that he is not going to let Washington warp him like it warped Obama, the last man we sent to do the job, that miserable prick.
Click to expand...

Not exactly the topic - though I see you prefer the generalized argument of Trump always good - opposition always bad.

The fact is that every tweet is a presidential message. He has just undone all the work his surrogates and the Justice department tried to get done. What good is a policy idea if you are completely unable to get any policies passed?

So what was his actual strategy to get the travel ban passed and approved by the courts?
 
Angelus said:
Not exactly the topic - though I see you prefer the generalized argument of Trump always good - opposition always bad.

The fact is that every tweet is a presidential message. He has just undone all the work his surrogates and the Justice department tried to get done. What good is a policy idea if you are completely unable to get any policies passed?

So what was his actual strategy to get the travel ban passed and approved by the courts?
Click to expand...

I assume that he is smart enough to know that SCOTUS does not do law anymore, they do politics, and they dont like him so he lost before he ever said a word, thus he is frying different fish now.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I assume that he is smart enough to know that SCOTUS does not do law anymore, they do politics, and they dont like him so he lost before he ever said a word, thus he is frying different fish now.
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Ah, so his strategy is to throw up his hands and say that judges are mean so he won't play....this is the great leader and CEO who knows how to make deals? I thought terror attacks alarmed him, but he's just giving up?
 
joG said:
Only better briefed?
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Trump tends to fly by the seat of his pants and do his own work, he thinks that winning is more fun this way, and Lord, this man needs his FUN!
 
Angelus said:
Trump calls it a travel ban ? lawyers call it sabotage | TheHill

In a series of 140-character barbs, Trump on Monday complained his administration had created a “watered down, politically correct version” of the executive order he originally signed temporarily banning travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries from entering the U.S. ***

George Conway, a prominent attorney who is married to senior Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway, wrote on Twitter that the president’s tweets “may make some ppl feel better, but they certainly won’t help [the Office of the Solicitor General] get 5 votes in [the Supreme Court], which is what actually matters. Sad.”

***

“The Justice Dept. should have stayed with the original Travel Ban, not the watered down, politically correct version they submitted to S.C.,” Trump tweeted, while urging the department to work on a “much tougher version in the meantime.”

Like lawyers at the Justice Department, Trump’s top aides have insisted that the policy is not a travel ban. “It’s not a Muslim ban. It’s not a travel ban,” White House press secretary Sean Spicer told reporters on Jan. 31. “It’s a vetting system to keep America safe.”

But Trump on Monday made it clear he disagrees.

“People, the lawyers and the courts can call it whatever they want, but I am calling it what we need and what it is, a TRAVEL BAN!” Trump tweeted


So the Trump-pets have been arguing that this is not a ban - NOT A BAN! No Ban Here - move along.

Then just at the critical point of the current appeal, Trump announces to the world he regrets that the Justice Department force him to make this weak PC version of a ban, and he intends to go for a ban with real teeth. They guy just does not seem to get it. He is a president - not an emperor or a king. We live in a constitutional democracy where there are three co-equal branches of govt. The court system will not go away because he wants it to.

Trump is incapable of getting anything done because he can't accept the fact that others have a say in what happens. A Travel Ban is exactly what the courts have objected to - it is exactly what the justice department has insisted doesn't exist.

This guy just gives a new meaning to stupid.
Click to expand...


I don't remember people arguing that it's not a ban. I believe the argument was that it wasn't a Muslim ban, but a temporary travel ban. The "temporary" was always left out of the hysteria on the left side. The courts have objected to what they see as a "Muslim" ban.

Someone else posted that the Supreme Court is against bans, but I couldn't find anything to back that up without a qualifying reason, so I don't get where people are saying the courts object to "bans". We "ban" a lot of things.
 
Angelus said:
Ah, so his strategy is to throw up his hands and say that judges are mean so he won't play....this is the great leader and CEO who knows how to make deals? I thought terror attacks alarmed him, but he's just giving up?
Click to expand...

The "smartest man in the room" got spanked many times by the courts, and ended up being on the wrong end of court decisions more than any other modern president. Even his own appointees were deciding against him on many issues.......as they should.

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/obama-has-lost-supreme-court-more-any-modern-president

The libs didn't think it was so funny then.
 
Doing well here, only took until the fourth post to compare the present Adminsration to the prior! If Trump "flying by the seat of his pants" doesn't make you nervous, EOD needs more people with "nerves of steel!" Stop with all the winning already, "Uncle!"
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Trump tends to fly by the seat of his pants and do his own work, he thinks that winning is more fun this way, and Lord, this man needs his FUN!
Click to expand...

He's certainly entertaining a largish audience, keep them enthralled and ficus them on reality according to the tweet.
 
Angelus said:
Care to elucidate? What strategy do you think he's employing?
Click to expand...

Strategy would imply that Trump is a rational thinking person who has plotted out some design and is carrying it out. Events of the last few months have demonstrated the opposite.

Trump has an obvious serious personality disorder that could well go full blown over the line into mental illness. He has the self control of a 14 year old boy with a stack of porn in front of him and whose parents have just gone to the mall for three hours. He has the attention span of a two year old. He is a serial liar who only serves himself and knows no loyalty or obligation to anyone but himself. He uses people like toilet paper and then disposes of them when they no longer serve his purpose.

In short,Trump is the single greatest danger this nation faces. He is the greatest threat to the American people since the height of the ColdWar.

He has no strategy beyond do what he thinks is good for Trump at that particular moment in time.
 
Rexedgar said:
Doing well here, only took until the fourth post to compare the present Adminsration to the prior! If Trump "flying by the seat of his pants" doesn't make you nervous, EOD needs more people with "nerves of steel!" Stop with all the winning already, "Uncle!"
Click to expand...

Trump doesn't make me 1/10 as nervous as the treacherous modern lib.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Proving to America that he is not going to let Washington warp him like it warped Obama, the last man we sent to do the job, that miserable prick.
Click to expand...

So he brought in a new set of swamp denizens to do the 'warped work' while he stays on the Tweeter sideline huffing and puffing...

Yeah REAL smart and REAL effective... :roll:
 
holbritter said:
I don't remember people arguing that it's not a ban. I believe the argument was that it wasn't a Muslim ban, but a temporary travel ban. The "temporary" was always left out of the hysteria on the left side. The courts have objected to what they see as a "Muslim" ban.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I've always argued it was travel ban, perfectly legal under U.S. Immigration law.

8 U.S. Code § 1182(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President.

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
Click to expand...

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
 
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holbritter said:
I don't remember people arguing that it's not a ban. I believe the argument was that it wasn't a Muslim ban, but a temporary travel ban. The "temporary" was always left out of the hysteria on the left side. The courts have objected to what they see as a "Muslim" ban.

Someone else posted that the Supreme Court is against bans, but I couldn't find anything to back that up without a qualifying reason, so I don't get where people are saying the courts object to "bans". We "ban" a lot of things.
Click to expand...

If it were any other POTUS, this would be law now. The fact that Trump phrased it in a certain way on the campaign stump made people like Justice Ginsburg get an attitude against him.
 
WCH said:
Actually, as I understand, it's just an temporary immigration hold while further vetting is applied.
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Apparently, according to Mr. Trump, you're understanding was wrong. ;)

In reality it's all semantics. Toh-MAY-toh or Toh-MAH-toh. It's still a travel ban from six or seven nations the current President has deemed a threat to national security.

People on the Left have been knocking Trump for failing to keep any of his campaign promises. Aside from the fact this is patently untrue, I am not surprised that Trump is reacting to this narrative as he has been.

It may not be P.C., but then when has he ever been P.C.? :shrug:
 
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holbritter said:
I don't remember people arguing that it's not a ban. I believe the argument was that it wasn't a Muslim ban, but a temporary travel ban. The "temporary" was always left out of the hysteria on the left side. The courts have objected to what they see as a "Muslim" ban.

Someone else posted that the Supreme Court is against bans, but I couldn't find anything to back that up without a qualifying reason, so I don't get where people are saying the courts object to "bans". We "ban" a lot of things.
Click to expand...

You do realize that referring to it, at this stage, as "temporary" only hurts the case. The idea of the ban was that the Trump administration needed to act quickly to stop the inflow of people from certain countries to ensure correct vetting was in place before it could be resumed. The time is of the essence provision of central to the need for the 90 day ban.

For them to have a remote chance of prevailing on this, they would have to show they proceeded to quickly to study vetting ("put their money where there mouth was"). Even though they were denied this particular lever, the problem should have been unchanged, including the sense or urgency. Since the 90 days has long since passed, they would have to show they still needed the relief of the immigration system provided by the ban because, despite their diligence, they still need more time that only the travel ban will provide. Worrying about "temporary" at this point is not a winning strategy.

Of course, that was before Trump just self-incriminated the case by telling us its simply an act of bigotry.

I love the way you show us how to win, Donnie. You are such a winner.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Apparently, according to Mr. Trump, you're understanding was wrong. ;)

In reality it's all semantics. Toh-MAY-toh or Toh-MAH-toh. It's still a travel ban from six or seven nations the current President has deemed a threat to national security.

People on the Left have been knocking Trump for failing to keep any of his campaign promises. Aside from the fact this is patently untrue, I am not surprised that Trump is reacting to this narrative as he has been.

It may not be P.C., but then when has he ever been P.C.? :shrug:
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So it's not a 90 day hold to further vet on suspected persons from certain counties?

I don't want Trump to be PC.
 
WCH said:
So it's not a 90 day hold to further vet on suspected persons from certain counties?

I don't want Trump to be PC.
Click to expand...

Not quite the point. See below.

upsideguy said:
You do realize that referring to it, at this stage, as "temporary" only hurts the case. The idea of the ban was that the Trump administration needed to act quickly to stop the inflow of people from certain countries to ensure correct vetting was in place before it could be resumed. The time is of the essence provision of central to the need for the 90 day ban.

For them to have a remote chance of prevailing on this, they would have to show they proceeded to quickly to study vetting ("put their money where there mouth was"). Even though they were denied this particular lever, the problem should have been unchanged, including the sense or urgency. Since the 90 days has long since passed, they would have to show they still needed the relief of the immigration system provided by the ban because, despite their diligence, they still need more time that only the travel ban will provide. Worrying about "temporary" at this point is not a winning strategy.

Of course, that was before Trump just self-incriminated the case by telling us its simply an act of bigotry.

I love the way you show us how to win, Donnie. You are such a winner.
Click to expand...

Had the Left let the ban proceed, your argument would hold water.

However, the issue now is not the temporary nature of the original ban, but the challenge to the President's authority to issue this type of ban.

If Trump does not appeal the issue, it becomes a precedent limiting the Presidential power under "8 U.S. Code § 1182(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President."

So, if there is going to be a binding legal precedent, let it come from the Supreme Court.
 
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Angelus said:
So the Trump-pets have been arguing that this is not a ban - NOT A BAN! No Ban Here - move along.
Click to expand...

I know the idea of being "fair" to Trump supporters is foreign to some, but let's be fair here: the argument as it relates to a ban that most seem to have made isn't that it's not a ban, it's that it's not a MUSLIM ban. Those are two different things.

Now, aside from that, this is yet another dumb move involving Trump and Twitter and Conway's husband is right. Him tweeting about something about to go before the SCOTUS, especially tweeting something that contradicts what his own justice department is trying to argue, is absolutely not helpful to him or his cause in any fashion.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
I assume that he is smart enough to know that SCOTUS does not do law anymore, they do politics, and they dont like him so he lost before he ever said a word, thus he is frying different fish now.
Click to expand...

What?! Trump Lost? But I thought he's a "winner" and is going to "bring winning back to America". Or is he just a winner when he's not a big fat loser?

I mean, when you're going to be putting forth the kind of ****ty, base level, worthless arguments your first few posts in this thread have presented as any kind of actual argument then frankly counters like the above is all the response they really deserve.
 
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