• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police say

Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

You take that wrong, then. I don't assume anything not present in the facts, like assuming he was suffering from a mental illness or acting out of a lack of sanity. Not all murderers are insane or suffer from a mental illness. If the opposite were true, then the population of Chicago's East Side community would be suffering from an over abundance of mental illness within their population, given the murder rate there.

Is it possible that the guy was suffering from mental illness? Hell yes, given what he did. But, is there evidence to say so as a matter of fact like your post did above? Hell no. I prefer to not leap to blame others for the acts of a criminal, like creating a term to blame such as "our nation's mental health deficit." I actually agree with you that our country has a lack of mental health care for those that need it the most. But, given that this country is based on freedom and liberty, how do we force a person to be treated for an illness or an affliction that they may not even be able to recognize exists? There's the problem. Do we forcibly remove a person's freedom and liberty from them by institutionalizing them? We do that already, but a person has to exhibit signs that they are a threat to themselves or others before a court can act. I see no evidence that there was any such evidence before this event.

I can't blame anyone but the murderer in this instance for his own actions, and I don't see how anyone else can either. I go back to my sig below. We as a culture need to take responsibility for the consequences of our own choices, and stop blaming others for the situation we find ourselves in due to our own choices, and not anyone else.

then your position is his killing the former co-workers was the act of a sane man
i forcefully disagree
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

perp was fired this april and battered a co-worker a few years back
6 victims of our nation's mental health deficit

This does not sound like there was much that realistically could have been done.

Sometimes, people just snap...without much warning. The battered co-worker thingy involved no charges..not much you can do there.

You cannot lock up/heavily sedate everyone who shows the slightest sign of mental instability...you would have to lock up about 30% of the nation at one time or another.

The three things I would do (if I could) would be to:
- have all people convicted of ANY violent offense to have to see a shrink for one hour minimum? That won't make a giant difference. But it might catch the obvious nut jobs before they go on a rampage.
- MUCH longer minimum sentences for violent crimes (would not have helped here).
- (gun lovers - avert your eyes) the ONLY people who should be able to own guns are ex-military (who were not 'dishonorably' discharged) and those who carry a gun for their job. If you want a gun - join the military and don't get thrown out. Otherwise...you are out of luck.

The Second Amendment CLEARLY - 'well DUH', in fact - refers to the Militia, not people who love guns but who have not served in the military/reserves.

(and gun lovers - save your freak outs - I will not read them. I have better things to do than get into endless discussions with people who seem to value firearms more than life itself. And if that offends you...good. Fanatical gunlovers are just ridiculous. Not ALL gun lovers...just the fanatical ones).
 
Last edited:
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

then your position is his killing the former co-workers was the act of a sane man
i forcefully disagree

Given that I have already stated to you categorically that what you accuse me of espousing is not in fact my position... then no.

Forcefully or not, your disagreement is irrelevant to the argument of whether there is evidence in the OP story that the man was insane or mentally ill, or that the lack of a viable US mental health delivery system had any impact on the murderers of the victims.

However, I'm open minded enough to still give you the opportunity to attempt to prove your point - forcefully or passively if your prefer.
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

then your position is his killing the former co-workers was the act of a sane man
i forcefully disagree
How are you coming on that whole "proof he sought mental health assistance and couldnt find any because the system failed him" thing?
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

Perp was a druggie with violent tendencies. Sigh.

According to TV last night, perp was also a veteran. I wonder if PTSD came into play? When one is taught to use violence in dealing with problems, I suppose one uses violence to deal with problems.
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

According to TV last night, perp was also a veteran. I wonder if PTSD came into play? When one is taught to use violence in dealing with problems, I suppose one uses violence to deal with problems.

I doubt it. Your comment is so amazingly insulting to members of the US Armed Forces that I am at a loss for any further civilized words here.
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

I doubt it. Your comment is so amazingly insulting to members of the US Armed Forces that I am at a loss for any further civilized words here.

Well I'm sorry your feeling were hurt. I was at Fort Sam myself back in 1969. I have nothing against the troops at all. I support them and consider the dirty politicians who sent them off to be maimed and killed under fraud to be traitors. My nephew is US Army. Chill lady.

Having experienced a bit of it myself, PTSD is real. You should not pretend otherwise. :peace
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

Well I'm sorry your feeling were hurt. I was at Fort Sam myself back in 1969. I have nothing against the troops at all. I support them and consider the dirty politicians who sent them off to be maimed and killed under fraud to be traitors. My nephew is US Army. Chill lady.

Having experienced a bit of it myself, PTSD is real. You should not pretend otherwise. :peace

PTSD is real, saying that the military teaches people to use violence to solve problems is ignorant and I have nothing further to say to you.
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

Given that I have already stated to you categorically that what you accuse me of espousing is not in fact my position... then no.

Forcefully or not, your disagreement is irrelevant to the argument of whether there is evidence in the OP story that the man was insane or mentally ill, or that the lack of a viable US mental health delivery system had any impact on the murderers of the victims.

However, I'm open minded enough to still give you the opportunity to attempt to prove your point - forcefully or passively if your prefer.

to someone who believes the killer engaged in sane activities, there is no way to demonstrate that the perp was mentally ill

you can accept that passively or forcefully, but reason would tell most that the killer was not acting in a sane manner when killing those victims
 
Re: Orlando shooting: 5 people dead after 'disgruntled' ex-employee opens fire police

It's lucky he was merely disgruntled. How many more would be dead if he'd been enraged?
 
Back
Top Bottom