• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreement

Cardinal

Cardinal

Respected On All Sides
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
106,843
Reaction score
98,897
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Full headline: An alliance of the nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreement

As Trump continues to abandon global leadership, states and cities appear willing to pick up the slack. As of now three states -- Washington, California and New York -- have created an alliance to commit to the goals of the Paris Accord, and the governor of Oregon has likewise released a statement committing to it, so she'll probably join in soon enough. One could reasonably expect other states such as Massachusetts and Vermont to join in short time as well. In fact, if one were to look at the list of states by gdp, the largest ones are mostly blue and could help to bring the country as a whole up to the levels of the Paris Accord without the help of the poorest states, which with only a few exceptions are invariably red.

Additionally, 85 mayors from major cities around the country have committed to the Paris Accord. These cities are reasonably spread throughout the country, red and blue alike.

Macron expressed his disappointment with "the United States Federal Government," pointedly observing that it was Trump and not the American people who approved of pulling out of the Paris Accord, and he may be right.

It can't be understated how important this is to the economy of the United States (to say nothing of the environment), because leaders of European countries (France, Germany and Italy) have responded to Trump's declaration to "renegotiate" the Paris Accord by vowing that all further negotiations are off the table. What this means is that as we continue to isolate ourselves from global trade and military alliances, other nations will most likely put in place environmental standards as a precondition for future trade deals.

As Christiana Figueres, the former executive secretary of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change — who led the talks that created the Paris Agreement in December 2015 — said on that same call, it was always people in states, cities, and companies who would be working to cut emissions. Now, they might be doing the same — just without the mandate from the federal government.

"I think they will do so with much more enthusiasm after today," Figueres said.

As the World Resources Institute has pointed out, if the US states that support the Paris Agreement were counted as a country, they'd be the fifth-largest economy and sixth-largest greenhouse-gas emitter in the world — meaning action by those states is significant enough to have an impact.

It's not just states getting involved. Mayors of more than 85 cities across the US signed a letter on Thursday announcing a commitment to reduce emissions and push clean energy. As Business Insider's Dana Varinsky previously reported, some experts believe it's possible that cities alone can ensure the US meets climate goals.
Click to expand...

US Climate Alliance may hinder Trump's vow to exit Paris climate deal - Business Insider
https://medium.com/@ClimateMayors/c...ld-paris-climate-agreement-goals-ba566e260097
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...enegotiated/0lH3rowhqv7TtQynlx7S1J/story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gross_State_Product_(GSP)

View attachment 67218363
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Will they pony up the financial assistance to be given to other nations by raising their taxation?
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Wow. That is good news. I wouldn't give up hope on red states either. I could see all 50 states independently joining the accord of their own volition.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Cardinal said:
Full headline: An alliance of the nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreement

As Trump continues to abandon global leadership, states and cities appear willing to pick up the slack. As of now three states -- Washington, California and New York -- have created an alliance to commit to the goals of the Paris Accord, and the governor of Oregon has likewise released a statement committing to it, so she'll probably join in soon enough. One could reasonably expect other states such as Massachusetts and Vermont to join in short time as well. In fact, if one were to look at the list of states by gdp, the largest ones are mostly blue and could help to bring the country as a whole up to the levels of the Paris Accord without the help of the poorest states, which with only a few exceptions are invariably red.

Additionally, 85 mayors from major cities around the country have committed to the Paris Accord. These cities are reasonably spread throughout the country, red and blue alike.

Macron expressed his disappointment with "the United States Federal Government," pointedly observing that it was Trump and not the American people who approved of pulling out of the Paris Accord, and he may be right.

It can't be understated how important this is to the economy of the United States (to say nothing of the environment), because leaders of European countries (France, Germany and Italy) have responded to Trump's declaration to "renegotiate" the Paris Accord by vowing that all further negotiations are off the table. What this means is that as we continue to isolate ourselves from global trade and military alliances, other nations will most likely put in place environmental standards as a precondition for future trade deals.



US Climate Alliance may hinder Trump's vow to exit Paris climate deal - Business Insider
https://medium.com/@ClimateMayors/c...ld-paris-climate-agreement-goals-ba566e260097
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...enegotiated/0lH3rowhqv7TtQynlx7S1J/story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gross_State_Product_(GSP)

View attachment 67218363
Click to expand...

Trudeau used the same wording, “We are deeply disappointed that the United States federal government has decided to withdraw from the Paris Agreement."
Your last paragraph might be prophetic, with NAFTA negotiations upcoming.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

ttwtt78640 said:
Will they pony up the financial assistance to be given to other nations by raising their taxation?
Click to expand...

And without using Federal funds.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Cardinal said:
Full headline: An alliance of the nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreement

As Trump continues to abandon global leadership, states and cities appear willing to pick up the slack. As of now three states -- Washington, California and New York -- have created an alliance to commit to the goals of the Paris Accord, and the governor of Oregon has likewise released a statement committing to it, so she'll probably join in soon enough. One could reasonably expect other states such as Massachusetts and Vermont to join in short time as well. In fact, if one were to look at the list of states by gdp, the largest ones are mostly blue and could help to bring the country as a whole up to the levels of the Paris Accord without the help of the poorest states, which with only a few exceptions are invariably red.

Additionally, 85 mayors from major cities around the country have committed to the Paris Accord. These cities are reasonably spread throughout the country, red and blue alike.

Macron expressed his disappointment with "the United States Federal Government," pointedly observing that it was Trump and not the American people who approved of pulling out of the Paris Accord, and he may be right.

It can't be understated how important this is to the economy of the United States (to say nothing of the environment), because leaders of European countries (France, Germany and Italy) have responded to Trump's declaration to "renegotiate" the Paris Accord by vowing that all further negotiations are off the table. What this means is that as we continue to isolate ourselves from global trade and military alliances, other nations will most likely put in place environmental standards as a precondition for future trade deals.



US Climate Alliance may hinder Trump's vow to exit Paris climate deal - Business Insider
https://medium.com/@ClimateMayors/c...ld-paris-climate-agreement-goals-ba566e260097
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/po...enegotiated/0lH3rowhqv7TtQynlx7S1J/story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gross_State_Product_(GSP)

View attachment 67218363
Click to expand...

Why shouldn't individual or groups of States act in accordance with the Paris Treaty? If that is okay by their voters they can enact any laws, rules or regulation that is legal. That is one of the advantages of so many States. You can run 50 field experiments and analyse the results.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

ttwtt78640 said:
Will they pony up the financial assistance to be given to other nations by raising their taxation?
Click to expand...

LOL!!

That's what I was going to ask...you beat me to it.

But yeah...that's the real reason other countries are upset at Trump. US taxpayers won't be giving them billions of dollars.

These States are welcome to give THEIR citizen's money if they want...though their citizens might have something to say about it.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

The US already commits vastly more money, research, and development into clean energy than other nations. It's not even close.

So why should we commit billions of dollars (that the other countries won't) into something WE'RE ALREADY DOING?

This is a special kind of stupid you can only find in New York and California.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Eh, it doesn't really short circuit the vow at all.

Individual states agreeing to adhere to the Paris Accords in no way, shape, or form causes the Federal Government...and thus all the jurisdictions within it...to also be bound to the accord. Trump's vow was not that no portion of the United States would be part of the Paris Accords, it would be that he would pull us out from it; and he did.

While undoubtedly, given the man-child that he is, Trump will be perturbed and angry that States aren't agreeing with his brilliance and following suit, that doesn't change the fact that their adherence to the accord doesn't invalidate his vow or his action. The two things are not incompatible notions.

I'm still of the opinion that treaties and agreements such as these should not be entered into by fiat of an Executive...specifically due to the fact that they can be broken so easily after OR because breaking them is treated so direly making the ability for an executive to unilaterally enter into them an extremely powerful one...but rather something that the legislative branch has a significant role in. That said, on a state level, if this is something that a state legislature or executive wants to agree to then that is that's state's prerogative, and ultimately it will be the voters of that state that will have to weigh that fact as it relates to future elections.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

ttwtt78640 said:
Will they pony up the financial assistance to be given to other nations by raising their taxation?
Click to expand...

Is that legal?
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Cardinal said:
Is that legal?
Click to expand...

State sovereignty. But I think individual donators will easily make up the difference, so it may not be necessary.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Zyphlin said:
Eh, it doesn't really short circuit the vow at all.

Individual states agreeing to adhere to the Paris Accords in no way, shape, or form causes the Federal Government...and thus all the jurisdictions within it...to also be bound to the accord. Trump's vow was not that no portion of the United States would be part of the Paris Accords, it would be that he would pull us out from it; and he did.

While undoubtedly, given the man-child that he is, Trump will be perturbed and angry that States aren't agreeing with his brilliance and following suit, that doesn't change the fact that their adherence to the accord doesn't invalidate his vow or his action. The two things are not incompatible notions.

I'm still of the opinion that treaties and agreements such as these should not be entered into by fiat of an Executive...specifically due to the fact that they can be broken so easily after OR because breaking them is treated so direly making the ability for an executive to unilaterally enter into them an extremely powerful one...but rather something that the legislative branch has a significant role in. That said, on a state level, if this is something that a state legislature or executive wants to agree to then that is that's state's prerogative, and ultimately it will be the voters of that state that will have to weigh that fact as it relates to future elections.
Click to expand...

Pulling out of the Paris Accord was a symbolic act, therefore it's probably immaterial whether or not the cities and states call what they're doing the "Paris Accord." So long as they abide by the goals of the Paris Accord, that is an important step. So as trump's move was symbolic, the climate alliance would fill the dual purpose of continuing to make strides for the environment while nullifying the symbolic act. (Obviously the former is of graver importance than the latter).
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Cardinal said:
Is that legal?
Click to expand...

Who cares? They want to abide by the agreement, then they can foot the bill.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Erod said:
The US already commits vastly more money, research, and development into clean energy than other nations. It's not even close.
Click to expand...

And why do you suppose that is?

Edit: whoops, we're nowhere close to the investment that China is making in renewable energy.
 
Last edited:
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

apdst said:
Good for him. Warmers should raise their own money to fund the global warming industry. I support that 100%.
Click to expand...

You truly are proof there is always that guy on the life raft who laughs at the people who bucket water out to keep it afloat. Foolishness is refusal to see the situation for what it is and to act as if those that do are the unwise and silly ones.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Erod said:
The US already commits vastly more money, research, and development into clean energy than other nations. It's not even close.

So why should we commit billions of dollars (that the other countries won't) into something WE'RE ALREADY DOING?

This is a special kind of stupid you can only find in New York and California.
Click to expand...

Actually, we are number 2.

10 countries that spent the most on clean energy in 2015 - Business Insider

I wonder who number 1 is?
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

CriticalThought said:
You truly are proof there is always that guy on the life raft who laughs at the people who bucket water out to keep it afloat. Foolishness is refusal to see the situation for what it is and to act as if those that do are the unwise and silly ones.
Click to expand...

I'm the guy that points out that the raft isn't taking on water.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Mycroft said:
LOL!!

An empty gesture. The Accords wanted nations to pony up $100 billion by 2020.
Click to expand...

First it was, "They won't pony up their own money." And now it is, "Well even if they do it is meaningless." Clearly, the interest is not on principle and it never was. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

ttwtt78640 said:
No. A private and voluntary contribution is not even in the same ballpark as using government (public taxation) funds.
Click to expand...

What were we supposed to contribute in assistance for other countries?
 
Re: Nation's biggest states could short-circuit Trump's vow to leave the Paris Agreem

Cardinal said:
Is that legal?
Click to expand...

I suppose so. Giving money away should not be a legal problem. What makes you think that a state or city is prohibited from giving away money (or goods) to a foreign charity, company or government?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom