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A Freedom Caucus Republican says the foundation of the Trump budget is ‘a lie’

vesper said:
Every time a Republican gets the opportunity to show fiscal responsibility in producing a budget that respects those who actually pay taxes they are portrayed by the left as hatemongers of the poor, the disabled, and children. Grandma will have to eat cat food and kids will drop dead because of Republicans.

Here's a montage of what is currently occurring.



Same old song and dance. Same old broken record.

It is the same scenario being played out over health care. But the CBO released their findings today on the Republican version of the AHCA and states that from 2017 to 2026 will bring down the deficit by 119 billion dollars and by 2026 bring down premium costs by 20%.

CBO: American Health Care Act Will Reduce Deficit By $119 Billion - Washington Free Beacon
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The bold part? You left out an important part of the sentence. Why is that?
 
Fenton said:
Lol ! Uhm NO ! Hillary Clinton and even people like Donald Trump, and Nancy Pelosi and Barrack Obama or Eleizabeth Warren are not " we the people "

They are the political connected wealthy elite.
Putting your trust in a massive Govt and bueracracy snd justifying it by saying " its just us guys " shows a dangerous level of naivete
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I think, nope I am sure you missed my point.
 
JANFU said:
Well said. Amazing how people will try to shift the onus to the people. We the people are the Govt., we the people decide what we want our Govt. to do.
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People THINK churches feed the poor, but the truth is not so rosy. Having been an elder for four years, I can tell you that 80 to 90% of most church budgets go to salaries.

"The church" abandoned the poor when Rome fell. There are some in the inner city, but for the most part, the higher the income demographic the less available for works.

Secondly, I believe being a Christian has nothing to do with church, but is a matter of the heart. I have to ask where one's heart is when the eagerly embrace a budget that screws so many people.

Remember the Reagan years.
 
Captain America said:
It is well known that the typical Republican minded person thinks the poor, middle-class and downtrodden people are given too much and the rich and uber rich are not given enough.

Beneath all their policies, lies that sad but undeniable truth.
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What IS surprising is that Republicans tend to be good American church-going Republicans.


Jesus spent his mission addressing those who were cast-outs from society; Republicans spend their lives creating them.
 
Isn't there some old saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch...?
 
cuban smokes said:
everything that Trump campaigned on has so far ended up being one form or another of a lie so, why wouldn't the Trump budget be a lie also?

Trump may not be a 'politician' but he sure lies better than a politician, and those that voted for him; well ........ :lol:
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I don't disagree with your caricature of Trump. But there really was no better alternative last November unless one voted third party. Which I did.
 
vesper said:
Every time a Republican gets the opportunity to show fiscal responsibility in producing a budget that respects those who actually pay taxes they are portrayed by the left as hatemongers of the poor, the disabled, and children. Grandma will have to eat cat food and kids will drop dead because of Republicans.
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Trump's budget is not fiscally responsible. It increases spending over 10 years.

They can't even get the math right. They claim that the Trump tax cut will not only offset $5 trillion over 10 years in tax cuts, it will also offset another $3 trillion in increased spending. They predict something that has never happened ever, namely that the tax cuts will pay for themselves and then some. Part of this claim is based on double-counting the projected windfall from the tax cuts.

That's not fiscal responsibility. It's sheer incompetence.


It is the same scenario being played out over health care. But the CBO released their findings today on the Republican version of the AHCA and states that from 2017 to 2026 will bring down the deficit by 119 billion dollars and by 2026 bring down premium costs by 20%.
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It also says that 23 million Americans will lose health care coverage -- and cut taxes for the wealthy. It would nearly double the percentage of uninsured. Over half of that will be due to Medicaid cuts.

How is that not an example of Republican policies targeting people who are poor?

That's your idea of compassion? Eliminate in-kind benefits, health coverage and education spending? For a set of plans that is likely to dramatically increase the federal deficit? Do you really not see how citing this undercuts your own argument?

Plus, all those poor people? Yeah, millions work, millions are retired, almost all still pay taxes. And many of those who don't specifically pay federal income tax? That's because of bipartisan votes for the EITC, which is designed to encourage people to work.
 
Fearandloathing said:
People THINK churches feed the poor, but the truth is not so rosy. Having been an elder for four years, I can tell you that 80 to 90% of most church budgets go to salaries.

"The church" abandoned the poor when Rome fell. There are some in the inner city, but for the most part, the higher the income demographic the less available for works.

Secondly, I believe being a Christian has nothing to do with church, but is a matter of the heart. I have to ask where one's heart is when the eagerly embrace a budget that screws so many people.

Remember the Reagan years.
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Trickle down economics years, it was indeed a trickle not enough to make a good spit. The upside was the rich increased wealth dramatically.
IIRC the US has the highest poverty rates in the G7

Disability rate twice Canada's as Drs. know that this is the only avenue left open,as mant States have strict lifetime limits for welfare. Claims for disability are rampant in mostly rural areas.
Ever other door has been slammed shut.
And these are people who want to work but live in high unemployment areas.

Then you see how many Republicans Govts, State level have a hate on for the poor.

When you try to explain the long term social costs, dropout levels higher, crime rates increase, health problems all much higher then middle income families.
Yet they continue to cut taxes for the rich.

1 day voters, lower income in Blue Sates are going to have a massive awakening and vote differently.

Many voted for Trump, now they see what he really planned to do. They see the Repub ACA subsidies cut, Social Security and Medicaid next.

Then we have Ryan who wants to privatize Social Security. For the fund companies that would manage these investments, what a windfall in fees.
 
JANFU said:
Trickle down economics years, it was indeed a trickle not enough to make a good spit. The upside was the rich increased wealth dramatically.
IIRC the US has the highest poverty rates in the G7

Disability rate twice Canada's as Drs. know that this is the only avenue left open,as mant States have strict lifetime limits for welfare. Claims for disability are rampant in mostly rural areas.
Ever other door has been slammed shut.
And these are people who want to work but live in high unemployment areas.

Then you see how many Republicans Govts, State level have a hate on for the poor.

When you try to explain the long term social costs, dropout levels higher, crime rates increase, health problems all much higher then middle income families.
Yet they continue to cut taxes for the rich.

1 day voters, lower income in Blue Sates are going to have a massive awakening and vote differently.

Many voted for Trump, now they see what he really planned to do. They see the Repub ACA subsidies cut, Social Security and Medicaid next.

Then we have Ryan who wants to privatize Social Security. For the fund companies that would manage these investments, what a windfall in fees.
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When you try to explain the long term social costs, dropout levels higher, crime rates increase, health problems all much higher then middle income families.
Yet they continue to cut taxes for the rich.
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That is not new. My last years in the US, that was ONE of the major issues emerging in the 60's, the TOLL taken by a policy of neglect. So many Americans blame poverty on the poor, prostitution on prostitutes, but somehow totally miss the real causes.

But you missed one point. Drug abuse rises disproportionately to a rise in poverty cases as more and more people turn to illegal sources to stay alive. To date the policy has to imprison them in for-profit prisons, keeping the numbers lower than they are.
 
Fearandloathing said:
That is not new. My last years in the US, that was ONE of the major issues emerging in the 60's, the TOLL taken by a policy of neglect. So many Americans blame poverty on the poor, prostitution on prostitutes, but somehow totally miss the real causes.

But you missed one point. Drug abuse rises disproportionately to a rise in poverty cases as more and more people turn to illegal sources to stay alive. To date the policy has to imprison them in for-profit prisons, keeping the numbers lower than they are.
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And Jeff Sessions want to increase the War on drugs. More prisons. That man is really freaking backward on what does not work.
 
JANFU said:
Cuts made on the back of low income, the disabled, those that need help. As a Christian who tries to adhere to the teachings of Jesus, I do not know how anyone who is can support such cuts.
Those that put their faith in Jesus front and center as we often see on this board, they need to read his teachings again.
If they cannot see the harm in this budget, then they are what we call Sunday Morning Christians.
The question I ask is, who did Jesus speak so often of?
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This is righteous comedy. Where did Jesus tell one group of people to demand money from another group people in order to follow his teachings by giving it to a third group of people? If you want to help the poor, then take your Christian ass, get off the couch, and do the work. I suppose when you get to the pearly gates and Peter asks you what you've done to get into heaven, you can fall back on how dutiful you were in paying taxes.

Don't cry and moan when people don't have the same goals or views of charity as you do. Some people, for instance, may view social programs as anathema to solving poverty by creating reliance on social networks rather than self-improvement.

Some people may believe that spending on social programs simply is beyond what is needed. Look at the food stamp program which Trump has proposed cutting. The truth is that states only average about a 70% coverage rate. Meaning, of the people the government predicts needs food stamps, only 70% claim the benefit. Since we simply don't witness people starving in the streets, it is reasonable to assume that the government's prediction is too high and, furthermore, it seems reasonable that we could reduce food stamp spending, off the top, by about 30% with absolutely no negative impact. Then juggernauts of logical thought, like yourself, can whine about how we are taking from the poor.
 
JANFU said:
And Jeff Sessions want to increase the War on drugs. More prisons. That man is really freaking backward on what does not work.
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The trajectory in poverty/ghetto is for a male to get busted, usually drugs at an early age, goes to jail and learns to be a better criminal. Because he has this new knowledge he is bolder and will get busted for something else, then get into a fight and get busted again...he's now doing life.

The US would see a turn-around like no other if they did three things: legalized pot and, re-map the sentencing structure to reflect recovery instead of punishment and get rid of the three strikes rule.

Contrary to all social research, most Americans believe 'once a criminal, always a criminal'
 
JANFU said:
Cuts made on the back of low income, the disabled, those that need help. As a Christian who tries to adhere to the teachings of Jesus, I do not know how anyone who is can support such cuts.
Those that put their faith in Jesus front and center as we often see on this board, they need to read his teachings again.
If they cannot see the harm in this budget, then they are what we call Sunday Morning Christians.
The question I ask is, who did Jesus speak so often of?
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Yes, Jesus demanded you force everyone around you to provide the charity you find agreeable. Jesus wanted people to help others on their own free will, not because other people demanded it of them. How about you learn Jesus's teaching before you run around and declare other people are practicing their faith wrong.
 
The budget numbers, of course, are fudged. Bigly.

FC members will not for the strange creature of the AHCA that will come out of the Senate.
 
ibelsd said:
This is righteous comedy. Where did Jesus tell one group of people to demand money from another group people in order to follow his teachings by giving it to a third group of people? If you want to help the poor, then take your Christian ass, get off the couch, and do the work. I suppose when you get to the pearly gates and Peter asks you what you've done to get into heaven, you can fall back on how dutiful you were in paying taxes.

Don't cry and moan when people don't have the same goals or views of charity as you do. Some people, for instance, may view social programs as anathema to solving poverty by creating reliance on social networks rather than self-improvement.

Some people may believe that spending on social programs simply is beyond what is needed. Look at the food stamp program which Trump has proposed cutting. The truth is that states only average about a 70% coverage rate. Meaning, of the people the government predicts needs food stamps, only 70% claim the benefit. Since we simply don't witness people starving in the streets, it is reasonable to assume that the government's prediction is too high and, furthermore, it seems reasonable that we could reduce food stamp spending, off the top, by about 30% with absolutely no negative impact. Then juggernauts of logical thought, like yourself, can whine about how we are taking from the poor.
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You have the highest rate of poverty in the G7
What is the current poverty rate in the United States? - UC Davis Center for Poverty Research
What is the current poverty rate in the United States? Current estimates on poverty in the U.S.

The official poverty rate is 13.5 percent, based on the U.S. Census Bureau’s 2015 estimates. That year, an estimated 43.1 million Americans lived in poverty according to the official measure. According to supplemental poverty measure, the poverty rate was 14.3 percent.

The official poverty measure was developed in the 1960s in conjunction with President Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty. Each September the U.S. Census Bureau releases an update of the national poverty rate for the prior year.
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vesper said:
Oh another daily dump from the Washington Post.

Mulvaney is a fiscal hawk. If you would have read Sanford's comments, he doesn't think the cuts are deep enough. Yet Rep.Dave Brat VA., another member of the Freedom Caucus sees the proposed budget as aiding in growing the economy.

How about a moment of TRUTH. Presidents propose a budget. The House controls the purse. What this budget does is reveal what the president wants to achieve, where he wants to increase spending and where he wants to cut it. Ultimately, the House will debate it and will come up with their version .

If Bernie Sanders and Nancy Pelosi think the budget is a disaster, then IMHO it can't be half bad. The lefties have been coming out of the woodwork claiming huge cuts to Medicaid. That just isn't true. They just didn't increase the amount already being spent. I guess only in Washington that is considered a cut.
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For the DoD, that's reality. They count on it. Trump is cooperating.
 
Henrin said:
Yes, Jesus demanded you force everyone around you to provide the charity you find agreeable. Jesus wanted people to help others on their own free will, not because other people demanded it of them. How about you learn Jesus's teaching before you run around and declare other people are practicing their faith wrong.
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Their words,actions and posts are what hung them.
You do not make a very good Preacher.
 
Fearandloathing said:
The trajectory in poverty/ghetto is for a male to get busted, usually drugs at an early age, goes to jail and learns to be a better criminal. Because he has this new knowledge he is bolder and will get busted for something else, then get into a fight and get busted again...he's now doing life.

The US would see a turn-around like no other if they did three things: legalized pot and, re-map the sentencing structure to reflect recovery instead of punishment and get rid of the three strikes rule.

Contrary to all social research, most Americans believe 'once a criminal, always a criminal'
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I think it is actually worse than that....we dont think that they are all doomed to be criminals but we now view people as disposable, and we are not willing to give people second chances because we need a collection of discarded to practice our sadism on.....it makes us feel better....and us getting what we want is the point, what is good for others and what is good for society is not the point. We now make great efforts to make sure that one mistake ruins a life, even if that mistake is made by a minor, and that is all about our sadism.
 
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