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23 million fewer Americans insured under House GOP bill, says CBO

Greetings, VanceMack. :2wave:

Well said! :thumbs: :agree: Obamacare wasn't a good idea from the beginning, since it was sold on lies, which required numerous tweaks by Obama over the years just to make it palatable to most of the public, and even that didn't work.

The GOP tried numerous times to repeal it, but were defeated by Dem votes every time, so why on earth should the GOP try to fix a Dem problem when they don't want any GOP input? It's always been the Dem's baby, so if and when it finally collapses, such is life. Then start again with both parties being involved and ready to actually do what's best for the people of this Country! This bull**** has gone on long enough, IMO! :2mad:

cash is king when it comes to medicine. if you can pay cash you can get a better rate than you can if you use your insurance.
I must have really really good insurance. I had to get an ultrasound with doplar and it was going to cost 280 bucks with co-pay
the cash price was 220.

my insurance picked up all of it.

ol yea I got the ultrasound the next day.
 
cash is king when it comes to medicine. if you can pay cash you can get a better rate than you can if you use your insurance.
I must have really really good insurance. I had to get an ultrasound with doplar and it was going to cost 280 bucks with co-pay
the cash price was 220.

my insurance picked up all of it.

ol yea I got the ultrasound the next day.

Greetings, ludin. :2wave:

:yes: .. :thumbs: :thumbs:
 
You do understand that millions today are uninsured, by choice, because they would rather pay a penalty than pay 15thousand a year for 'insurance' they will never use...right? Of course you do.

Asked...answered.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are not 23 million of such people as you claimed before. Asked... answered.
 
Greetings, ludin. :2wave:

:yes: .. :thumbs: :thumbs:

if I was in Canada to even see the specialist that ordered it would have taken a year or so.
then to get the ultrasound another 4 or 4 months. then to see the doctor again for the results
another 4 or 5 months hopefully.

it would be 2 years for something that here took me a few weeks? only due to my schedule to find a place
and get it scheduled.

I had a doctors appointment on Thursday with the specialist.
the next Wednesday I had my ultrasound. Friday had the results.
that Monday doctors appointment.
 
actually no we don't. you are wrong.

again I have the sources that prove otherwise. the taxes that come out of their checks which include healthcare range in the 30-40% or higher range.
again do some research instead of just throwing stuff at a wall you will look more informed.

any discrepancy in wait time can be fixed by adding more doctors. We do not have enough doctors being put into service.
the doctor cap is killing us.

other countries are also smaller and less populated.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...rtage-despite-specialist-growth/#1e8d3ec41aa7

Their taxes are higher for a lot of different reasons, saying all 30-40% of that is going to healthcare is a lie.

Weird that you think wait times in Canada can't possibly be solved the same way.
 
It's not a competition either.

Would have had me fooled with all these people declaring the USA is #1 in everything (including healthcare).
 
Actually, I will give Paul Ryan this. He answered questions about it without committing assault on any reporters.

:mrgreen:
 
Their taxes are higher for a lot of different reasons, saying all 30-40% of that is going to healthcare is a lie.

Weird that you think wait times in Canada can't possibly be solved the same way.

you are not going to sell people handing 40% of their check over to the government
to a middle class family.

more so when you tell them that on top of that they will need to pay for supplemental insurance.
they will need to pay for dental, eye, prescription plans as well.

good luck with that.

the problem you and others can't be honest in what exactly goes on in a single payer system.

it isn't free. there are huge costs to you even though your taxes go through the roof.

England and france there systems are running in the red. they can't afford them and so they are cutting services offered.
they are putting more costs on the population.

so much for free healthcare. it is anything but free.
 
There are not 23 million of such people as you claimed before. Asked... answered.
Current state there about 26 million. CBO projections are that by 2026 or so that number could reach 50 million. Reasons...the same.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/27/us/obamacare-affordable-care-act-tax-penalties.html?_r=0
When paying the Obamacare penalty is cheaper than buying insurance | Miami Herald
Key Facts about the Uninsured Population | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/04/us/many-see-irs-fines-as-more-affordable-than-insurance.html

Now...do your typical dance and go ahead and move that goalpost.
 
Would have had me fooled with all these people declaring the USA is #1 in everything (including healthcare).

I don't think it's useful to compare across national boundaries because economic, cultural and political contexts vary too widely.
 
Um, Romneycare, AKA, a Heritage Foundation conservative concept, created way back as a counter to Hillarycare. It was put forward to attract cons and centrist libs who were opposed to full on single payer. If it wasn't a "good idea from the start", blame Newt/Heritage...it was their "baby".

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapo...story-of-the-individual-mandate/#1d982f8355fe

Greetings, Gimmesometruth. :2wave:

Thank you for providing the link to your post! :thumbs: Reading a history about how "individual mandates" came to pass was very interesting to read, since I did not know most of that information prior to reading it!

Since I don't know what form of health care may eventually become law, and since it appears that both parties were in favor of personal mandates at one time or another, shouldn't both parties work together to end up with a workable plan that would benefit all the citizens of this Country without being financially catastrophic to anyone?

There should never be any "losers" in matters of basic health care! :no:

Just thinking out loud.....
 
you are not going to sell people handing 40% of their check over to the government
to a middle class family.

more so when you tell them that on top of that they will need to pay for supplemental insurance.
they will need to pay for dental, eye, prescription plans as well.

good luck with that.

the problem you and others can't be honest in what exactly goes on in a single payer system.

it isn't free. there are huge costs to you even though your taxes go through the roof.

England and france there systems are running in the red. they can't afford them and so they are cutting services offered.
they are putting more costs on the population.

so much for free healthcare. it is anything but free.

Is there some reason you think families are too stupid to understand how much they're paying in premiums, co-pays, and deductibles to private insurance companies?

Why are you talking about "free health care?"
 

It's not a moving goalpost. You claimed 23 million new people would dump insurance because they didn't want to have it anymore, and are therefore claiming zero people would dump insurance because the AHCA made it unaffordable.

This is ludicrous and directly contradicted by the CBO.

You're the one who has moved the goalposts to whining about Obamacare. The rest of us are discussing the impact of the AHCA.
 
It's not a moving goalpost. You claimed 23 million new people would dump insurance because they didn't want to have it anymore, and are therefore claiming zero people would dump insurance because the AHCA made it unaffordable.

This is ludicrous and directly contradicted by the CBO.

You're the one who has moved the goalposts to whining about Obamacare. The rest of us are discussing the impact of the AHCA.
The AHCA is not going to pass. Its a nonstarter. You know that. And of COURSE you dont want to talk about the piece of **** ACA. Of COURSE you want to ignore the complimentary flaws of the two. You celebrated the passage of that piece of **** knowing it is failing and your only response is to **** yourself over the GOP effort to fix it.
 
That might be a reasonable option, but the problem is when the GOP says repeatedly they're going to repeal and replace, repeal and replace, and does it for years, then gains power, if you're an insurance company, what's the incentive to invest in a market long term? There is none. And there is just an incredible amount of uncertainty with existing investments in a market. So in this environment, there is little doubt that many insurers will flee because there is too much downside risk, and so far the GOP have given no indication they CARE about making the markets work - they want to crater the exchanges - and so insurers are reacting rationally to that promise by the GOP.

I understand. There won't be any help for the ACA coming from the Republicans. I don't know why the Democrats would expect them to help. After all the ACA was a lone party legislation. The Democrats acted alone, didn't want any help when they passed it because they had huge majorities in both chambers. They needed no help. The Democrats could do as they pleased and did so.

I personally see no reason to blame Republicans for not fixing they hadn't a part in and nothing from them was wanted. As for repeal and replace, I think after a couple of years, four or five at the most the ACA would stay and repeal and replace became political rhetoric, propaganda for the party's base. One of these days a bit of common sense needs to enter our political system. We need to return to an era where both leaders of the two major parties will work with each other, compromise and respect each others point of view. We had that in the senate when the leaders were Dole and Mitchell, Lott and Daschel. But lost that ability when Reid and McConnell took over. Schumer is no better than Reid. Partisan as all get out are those three who are bent on destroying the other.

None is thinking about America as a whole, but with polarization entrenched in Washington, thinking about America as a whole isn't about to happen any time soon with either major party.
 
you are not going to sell people handing 40% of their check over to the government
to a middle class family.

more so when you tell them that on top of that they will need to pay for supplemental insurance.
they will need to pay for dental, eye, prescription plans as well.

good luck with that.

the problem you and others can't be honest in what exactly goes on in a single payer system.

it isn't free. there are huge costs to you even though your taxes go through the roof.

England and france there systems are running in the red. they can't afford them and so they are cutting services offered.
they are putting more costs on the population.

so much for free healthcare. it is anything but free.
There are costs in national health service, yes. And the western national health services provided better care for more people at a better cost than results in better health and longevity. That has already been posted in this thread.

ludin, do you know of any other country that is trying to imitate and copy our health care service and delivery?
 
Greetings, Gimmesometruth. :2wave:

Thank you for providing the link to your post! :thumbs: Reading a history about how "individual mandates" came to pass was very interesting to read, since I did not know most of that information prior to reading it!

Since I don't know what form of health care may eventually become law, and since it appears that both parties were in favor of personal mandates at one time or another, shouldn't both parties work together to end up with a workable plan that would benefit all the citizens of this Country without being financially catastrophic to anyone?

There should never be any "losers" in matters of basic health care! :no:

Just thinking out loud.....
Keep in mind that the House AHCA was assembled in secret by a select committee. No Democrats were allowed to participate and House GOP members had to vote on H.R. 1628 with only a few hours to read it. Ryan rammed through a compromise (Freedom Caucus/Tuesday Group) political bill that is far worse for most Americans than the ACA it replaces.

Democrats will never agree to strip healthcare from 23 million in order to provide a huge tax cut to the ultra-wealthy.
 
Is there some reason you think families are too stupid to understand how much they're paying in premiums, co-pays, and deductibles to private insurance companies?

Why are you talking about "free health care?"

No I think people are being dishonest when they promote this stuff.
1. families know what they pay. that money isn't taxed. so the taxes they pay are - their premium.
2. that won't happen. they will be taxed on all their money.

that is what you guys constantly promote people in Europe get free healthcare.
no they don't get free healthcare. they pay huge taxes.

sorry I have a family to support. I can't afford 40% of my pay going to the government.

I don't pay anywhere near that now.
 
There are costs in national health service, yes. And the western national health services provided better care for more people at a better cost than results in better health and longevity. That has already been posted in this thread.

ludin, do you know of any other country that is trying to imitate and copy our health care service and delivery?

no they don't please tell me how waiting 20 weeks to see a doctor is proving better service when it took me 2 days?
tell me how waiting up to a year to get an MRI is good service when it took me a week to get one?

I had to get an ultrasound I called the place the scheduled me the next day.
why is it that England and france are cutting their healthcare services?

I posted a crap load of articles on this I will believe them over well random internet posters and WHO.

with WHO you could have 1 doctor for 1 million people but hey as long as everyone can see that 1 guy you have a great healthcare system.
PS life longevity in most cases has nothing to do with healthcare.

that is a red herring argument and a dishonest one.

I honestly don't care what other countries do or do not do. the government has proven itself 100% inept at running healthcare.
 
I don't think it's useful to compare across national boundaries because economic, cultural and political contexts vary too widely.

And that's fair. I'm mainly addressing those who want to compare countries.
 
The AHCA is not going to pass. Its a nonstarter. You know that. And of COURSE you dont want to talk about the piece of **** ACA. Of COURSE you want to ignore the complimentary flaws of the two. You celebrated the passage of that piece of **** knowing it is failing and your only response is to **** yourself over the GOP effort to fix it.

The AHCA is a terrible bill. It's worse than Obamacare. You know that. And of COURSE you don't want to talk about the piece of **** AHCA. Of COURSE you want to ignore that the flaws of the ACA are amplified in the AHCA. Republicans sabotaged Obamacare knowing they could amplify any shortcomings and their only response is to **** Americans with the AHCA.
 
Their PPACA score.

This is frankly a weak objection. We have to make decisions based on the best available information, and CBO is it. Obviously it will be "wrong" but every projection, every budget, every long term plan by any entity of any size was "wrong" and yet companies go through the exercise and it's a meaningful one. I'm not sure what the alternative is - just allow everyone to make up their own gut feeling and legislate based on that?


Their PPACA score was wrong, period.

Tim-
 
.
"Fewer people would enroll in the nongroup market because the penalty
for not having insurance would be eliminated and, starting in 2020, because the average
subsidy for coverage in that market would be substantially lower for
most people currently eligible for subsidies. Also, more employers would offer coverage to their
employees because the available nongroup coverage would tend to have higher out-of
-pocket premiums for people currently eligible for subsidies and because the plans would
tend to provide fewer benefits."

Ok, selective extraction of information. Thank you nonetheless for at least going to the source document, but....

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/hr1628aspassed.pdf

"...CBO and JCT estimate that, in 2018, 14 million more people would be uninsured under H.R. 1628 than under current law. The increase in the number of uninsured people
relative to the number under current law would reach 19 million in 2020 and 23 million in 2026 (see Table 4, at the end of this document). In 2026, an estimated 51 million people would lack insurance compared to 28 million insurance that year under current law. Those people would not have a comprehensive major medical policy that would cover high-cost medical events and a range of services.

Although the agencies expect that the legislation would increase the number of uninsured broadly, the increase would be disproportionately larger among older people with lower
income—particularly people between 50 and 64 years old with income of less than 200 percent of the federal poverty level (see Figure 2). Medicaid enrollment would be lower throughout the coming decade, culminating in 14 million fewer Medicaid enrollees by 2026, a reduction of about 17 percent relative to the number under current law (see Figure 3 ). Some of that decline would be among people who are currently eligible for Medicaid benefits, and some would be among people who CBO projects would, under current law, become eligible in the future as additional states adopted the ACA’s option to expand eligibility."


The fact is the government is ripping out subsidies from those that cannot afford insurance and making those over 50 pay up to 5 times what they are currently paying. The plan takes $800 out of the healthcare system and gives it to the wealthiest Americans. By definition, its going to be a weaker program than what we have. The TrumpCare plan, which is contrary to his promises (some people would call that a lie), would make health insurance un-affordable to many Americans and lead to less coverage. Fewer persons having insurance would mean sicker people in the healthcare system, which will cost us all in the end.

Moreover, the insurance that is actually issued will be less robust....

"Although premiums would decline, on average, in states that chose to narrow the scope of EHBs, some people enrolled in nongroup insurance would experience substantial increases in what they would spend on health care."

The whole thing is a sham and an insult to our uneducated electorate.
 
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Their PPACA score was wrong, period.

Tim-

Your burden was, "remotely close" to actual. So to say it's "wrong" is 1) obvious because every budget, projection, etc. is "wrong", and 2) to move the goal posts.

And, again, pointing out that an option is imperfect (i.e. "wrong") is easy, but the hard part is figuring out a better alternative. If you don't want the public to use CBO as the basis for determining the effect of a change in the law, what information should we use instead?
 
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