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Special counsel appointed in Russia probe

ludin said:
which is good and bad. it will lead to a lot of speculation by the liberal media. they are tanking this country due to all these hit pieces that dan rather proved was not worth
the effort. that they should validate their information a bit further before running it.

that hasn't been done and when it backfires on them they will completely lose what little credibility they had.
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I don't necessarily agree with your characterization.

How about we see what facts come out?
 
Perotista said:
I'm sure Mueller will. But I think Fiddytree is right, most of this is the two parties circling their wagons for next years midterms. He didn't say it exactly that way, but that is the way I took it.
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If so, how repulsive and contemptible. If true, then perhaps you're right that the two-party system is irretrievably broken.
 
nota bene said:
I fervently hope you're wrong. I do think that if those so relentlessly eager to find fault with Trump aren't satisfied with Mueller's findings, the American public will turn away from them in utter disgust.
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In the millenial world, it's the other way around, if Mueller fails to find the fault they see in Trump, they will likely abandon politics. Unless the Democratic party magically become socialists over night.
 
Perotista said:
I'm sure Mueller will. But I think Fiddytree is right, most of this is the two parties circling their wagons for next years midterms. He didn't say it exactly that way, but that is the way I took it.
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The Democrats have one hell of an ammunition bag between the GOP legislative agenda and Trump's scandals, but yeah, you caught my meaning quite well. This won't be about trying to figure out to what extent and how the Russians had undermined our--or even, other Western nation's elections and how to fight back or defend ourselves. This will be about defending the President and "fighting against conspiracy theories" vs. attacking the President and "removing Putin's influence from the Oval Office."
 
nota bene said:
I fervently hope you're wrong. I do think that if those so relentlessly eager to find fault with Trump aren't satisfied with Mueller's findings, the American public will turn away from them in utter disgust.
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Personally, I think there are more Americans disgusted with those in Washington regardless of party than most folks think. That may be one reason Trump was able to pull off the upset last year. Then he becomes a fumblebum of a president.
 
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ludin said:
LOL. There is a thing called fact and there is a thing called conjecture.
I look for facts not conjecture.

When I have the intelligence committee, the NSA, and other major government organizations saying they have nothing
then I will tend to believe them.

anonymous unverified sources? please. wikileaks has better credibility than these so called anonymous sources.

if he broke the law then I expect him to be punished like anyone however it is going to come down to intent remember that one?
the law itself doesn't matter only his intent to break it.

if he didn't intend to break it then well you should be ok with that.

that is the new standard of justice now. it isn't whether you broke the law but did you intend to break it.
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That is not what Comey said about Hillary, he said there were no prosecute-able crimes. Meaning he felt any prosecution would lose.
Even if Trump's people were colluding with Russian agents to help Trump, you don't care do you? They helped him win, why would you? But even you should understand that if Russia was interfering like they have in other countries that must be investigated and measure taken to prevent it in the future. That should be given if you are an American.
 
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Winston said:
In the millenial world, it's the other way around, if Mueller fails to find the fault they see in Trump, they will likely abandon politics. Unless the Democratic party magically become socialists over night.
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No, they will keep searching for and demanding to get those who will tell them what they want to hear.
 
Mario said:
Maybe a good idea, maybe not. If it will just shut that partisan hack, Schumer up, that will be a blessing!...
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Nearly everyone in congress, is a partisan hack for some party. Right now, republicans have a slight lead in the partisan hack count.
 
Perotista said:
Personally, I think there are more Americans disgusted with those in Washington regardless of party than most folks think. That may be one reason Trump was able to pull of the upset last year. Then he becomes a fumblebum of a president.
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Trumps administration is the embodiment of the corruption in Washington
 
ludin said:
yes the left is pretty desperate and so is the media that they are willing to tank the country on nothing more than baseless accusations.
I guess I need to order more popcorn to watch the fireworks when as we already know nothing is found.
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I know nothing, except that much of this vast amount of rumor and such seems to indicate SOMETHING went down.

I'll be surprised if literally nothing is discovered.
 
NIMBY said:
Pence should have his own cabinet, slowly replacing all the billionaire hacks trump has added to the swamp .
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I'm not sure Pence is much better. Except he'll probably pick smarter more competent people. Which looks good on the surface. Except that means they'll just be smarter and more competent in legislating against us.
 
imagep said:
Nearly everyone in congress, is a partisan hack for some party. Right now, republicans have a slight lead in the partisan hack count.
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Exactly, some things are hard, they need good people in the right spots to get done, and we dont have that anymore pretty much across the board, which is why america is crashing so rapidly, stunningly fast by historical standards.
 
nota bene said:
I fervently hope you're wrong. I do think that if those so relentlessly eager to find fault with Trump aren't satisfied with Mueller's findings, the American public will turn away from them in utter disgust.
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I'll accept the findings though. With one small qualifier: no foul play.
 
Good. He should kick over every rock.
 
Chomsky said:
Now we need one for Trump's leaning on Comey. Hopefully.
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I don't think that any 'leaning' by Trump on Comey has been actually proven, beyond a mere conversational comment without any other action taken.
 
nota bene said:
If so, how repulsive and contemptible. If true, then perhaps you're right that the two-party system is irretrievably broken.
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I think it is. Actually I thought along those line since 1992 when I first went to work for Ross Perot. But back then it was more dissatisfaction with the two party system. We still had adult leaders in the senate, first Dole and Mitchell, then Lott and Daschel. I think Bill Clinton was a good president, although I never voted for him. At least I was comfortable with him being at the helm.

I think our problems really got back party wise when Hastert, Pelosi, Reid, McConnell took over the leadership of congress. Then it was all for the good of the party, loyalty to party, not the good of the nation or showing loyalty to the country. Bush II and Obama did a lot of things I disagreed with, but still I was comfortable with them. Not the leaders of congress, with the presidents. Not now. Not with anyone anymore.
 
Fenton said:
Whitewater ended up with Monica as you say because Clinton committed perjury

The SP can only focus on illegalities, and thats it
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Wrong again, well partially right, which is somewhat suprising. The SP can go where they want. As we saw with Whitewater, Starr was appointed in Aug 94 to investigate this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewater_controversy#The_Kenneth_Starr_investigation
The Kenneth Starr investigation
In August 1994, Kenneth Starr was appointed by a three-judge panel to continue the Whitewater investigation, replacing Robert B. Fiske, who had been specially appointed by the attorney general, prior to the re-enactment of the Independent Counsel law. Fiske was replaced because he had been chosen and appointed by Janet Reno, Clinton's attorney general, creating a conflict of interest.
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In 99, 4 years and a tad later this investigation lead to the impeachment of Bill Clinton
So for the hard right Republicans, who tried to down a sitting President over a blowjob, well get ready.

This will come to a head, and IMHO not the type that Bill received.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

The impeachment was initiated by the House of Representatives on December 19, 1998, against Bill Clinton, the 42nd President of the United States, on two charges, one of perjury and one of obstruction of justice.[1] These charges stemmed from Clinton's extramarital affair with former White House Intern Monica Lewinsky and his testimony about the affair during a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against him by Paula Jones. Clinton was subsequently acquitted of these charges by the Senate on February 12, 1999.[2] Two other impeachment articles – a second perjury charge and a charge of abuse of power – failed in the House.
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Chomsky said:
Actually, you might be right that Trump doesn't know much of anything.

But he lived through Watergate as an adult, and he followed the media all his life. So I believe he does remember how Nixon went down. Now whether he can control himself, is a whole 'nother manner.
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If that's so, he apparently watched Nixon go down, and thought "I can do that and get away with it"...
 
Perotista said:
At least answering the legal question, plus determining if there is a there there, is important. As for last years election, I will never forgive or forget what our two major parties did to this nations in nominating two bums, two very horrible candidates whom no one wanted to become the our next president outside of their core supporters. When 60% plus of all Americans view one candidate in a very negative light and 60% plus view the other candidate in the same negative light, along with 25% of all Americans detesting both candidates. To have to choose between them simply means our two party system is broke beyond repair.
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I don't really disagree with you either. I made my estimation for what the lesser of two evils was, but I was incredibly, incredibly disappointed that after having the strongest field in decades (arguably far more diverse and numerous than the late 1970s), this is who we chose. Then on the Dem side, it was a pageantry between an ordinarily boring sacrificial lamb and Eugene Debs with Doc Brown's hair.

So for me, while things are very sad to see in Washington, I place the majority blame on the citizenry itself for creating the atmosphere that our politicians are expected to perform under.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
I sense a firestorm approaching.
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Depends. Rosenstein, the man who appointed the Special Counsel, has always been a Trump supporter. But now that he was thrown under the bus by Trump in connection to the Comey firing, he may have an axe to grind. I see two possible results here. Either he covers it up, or he goes overboard on Trump and treats him unfairly. Neither is an honest result.
 
NIMBY said:
Advocating for Pence/Kasich would actually hurt Democrats in 2018 elections. That's called being an "American First" .
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Oh I'm not advocating for them, but they're better than Trump.
 
Mac77 said:
You are mistaken

I don't know how much trump can accomplish after all that has happened so far but his agenda was very ambitious and far reaching.
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he flipped on the vast majority of his agenda. Do I need to list these points for you?

Trump wasn't going to accomplish jack **** other than to embarris the entire nation. Now the entire world knows how stupid half of America is.
 
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