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Supreme Court Deals Blow to North Carolina Over Voting Rights

Supreme Court Deals Blow to North Carolina Over Voting Rights
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yep. they told the reich wing to suck it
 
Absentglare said:
That's actually a flat-out lie.

Republicans have been unilaterally erecting obstacles to vote all over the place.

You seem to be confusing a primary election with a general election. One of those is protected by an enumerated constitutional right, the other is whatever the political party wants it to be.
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no. jamesby is absolutely correct on this point. gerrymandering in NC originated with the democratic majority in state government
 
Erod said:
Voter suppression, my ass.

It's comical that we have to "debate" whether one should have to prove who they are before they vote.

And it speaks to the integrity of liberals in general to argue otherwise.
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but heaven help anyone who insists on such ID being required to purchase a gun or ammunition

the hypocrisy regarding this issue is loud
 
justabubba said:
but heaven help anyone who insists on such ID being required to purchase a gun or ammunition

the hypocrisy regarding this issue is loud
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Hmmm....

"In North Carolina, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell, give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver possesses a valid North Carolina issued concealed carry permit.[9] To obtain a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction typically at a sporting goods store but also between private individuals or companies throughout North Carolina.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_North_Carolina#NC_Gun_Laws

I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that in NC you'd need an ID to obtain a licence from the county Sheriff to buy a handgun...You really should use google before you post...
 
JamesBY said:
What a foolish statement! Is that how you typically write: miscalibrated? I support the court's finding regarding NC. I also know that Dems cheat also. You know that, too, yet you keep telling porkies. :)
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We're not talking about when political parties "cheat", whatever that means.

Republicans participate in voter suppression overwhelmingly more than democrats do.

In-person voter fraud almost never happens. The consequences are huge, they could be sent to prison for years and they have almost nothing to gain. So checking people's IDs isn't a huge benefit there.

There is a good amount of mail-in voter fraud. Do you actually want to tackle voter fraud? Well then we should actually suppress republican voters who can mail in fraudulent votes.
 
Absentglare said:
We're not talking about when political parties "cheat", whatever that means.

Republicans participate in voter suppression overwhelmingly more than democrats do.

In-person voter fraud almost never happens. The consequences are huge, they could be sent to prison for years and they have almost nothing to gain. So checking people's IDs isn't a huge benefit there.

There is a good amount of mail-in voter fraud. Do you actually want to tackle voter fraud? Well then we should actually suppress republican voters who can mail in fraudulent votes.
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Yes, I agree about the GOP. I also point out the Dems will cheat in a heart beat. You are no cleaner than the Pubs, little buddy.
 
j-mac said:
AFAIK, Nothing about this bill has to do with Absentee voting in NC...Aside from Voter ID, it named three other things that were deemed problematic...

1. same-day registration - This is a boon for fraud...I agree it should go.

2. out-of-precinct voting - This should never be allowed, and IMHO, if we were to actually do a real study on precincts that allow this, I think we'd see far more cases of fraud that we do today.

3. preregistration of high school students. - Again, the only reason to "pre register" H.S. students, is that at that age they are subject to peer pressure, and susceptible to Teacher influence, which we see that most staff even at the H.S. level are nearly ALL liberal....

So, why you are introducing the straw argument of Absentee voting is beyond me.
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I accept your #1 and #3, but withhold judgement on #2 pending evidence. Evidence of a need for requiring the ID NC attempted to mandate has not been found. Strike that, uphold 1 and 3, and we'll see about 2.
 
gdgyva said:
i dont want to restrict voting other than to make sure the people supposed to be voting are the ones actually doing it

and i am so sick of people coming back with the "no fraud cases" bullcrap

pretty simple concept.....show an ID....pull a lever

other than the military who of course use absentee ballots (tough to pull a lever from overseas)

it really isnt that hard.....

there will always be a few people that cant show up....and there has to be a way for them to vote also that can be verified....
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Do they need an ID to get their absentee ballot?
 
JamesBY said:
Yes, I agree about the GOP. I also point out the Dems will cheat in a heart beat. You are no cleaner than the Pubs, little buddy.
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Recent history spells out the polar opposite of your equivocation fallacy.
 
Absentglare said:
Gerrymandering isn't the same as voter suppression.
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no, it is not. but it is just as manipulative of the voting public to select the voters who will elect a particular candidate/party

no hands are clean
 
justabubba said:
no, it is not. but it is just as manipulative of the voting public to select the voters who will elect a particular candidate/party

no hands are clean
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I'm not arguing that democrats never cheat.

However, while republicans attempt to restrict democratic turn-out (under-funding democratic voting booth resources, creating artificial hurdles for voting like that it has to be on a Tuesday, or that you need specific forms of identification), it doesn't seem like democrats are actually reciprocating (by attacking mail-in ballots used by armed service members, for example).
 
Absentglare said:
Do they need an ID to get their absentee ballot?
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as far as i am concerned....yes

military have their ID's....one of the first things you get

students get a picture ID at every college i have seen

but should they vote where they are in school, or where their home of record is?

sometimes it is the same....sometimes not

hence the need for absentee ballots.....

some people are still US citizens, but live and work abroad....should they have a right to vote....absolutely

but should they have to show an ID somewhere? maybe at a consulate, an embassy, some official US government place....i would think that appropriate

how much of an undue burden on them would that be? i dont know....

i would almost like to have a national registry....register once, and then just show a picture ID every time you vote

i wouldnt even mind a national get out the vote registry type of thing....i want people who should have a voice to have a voice

i just want to make sure that the Tom Jones on the registrar's list is the guy pulling the lever....that's all
 
gdgyva said:
as far as i am concerned....yes

military have their ID's....one of the first things you get

students get a picture ID at every college i have seen

but should they vote where they are in school, or where their home of record is?

sometimes it is the same....sometimes not

hence the need for absentee ballots.....

some people are still US citizens, but live and work abroad....should they have a right to vote....absolutely

but should they have to show an ID somewhere? maybe at a consulate, an embassy, some official US government place....i would think that appropriate

how much of an undue burden on them would that be? i dont know....

i would almost like to have a national registry....register once, and then just show a picture ID every time you vote

i wouldnt even mind a national get out the vote registry type of thing....i want people who should have a voice to have a voice

i just want to make sure that the Tom Jones on the registrar's list is the guy pulling the lever....that's all
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Great now let's throw a bunch of arbitrarily cumbersome hoops up for anyone who plans to do a mail-in ballot of any kind.

Oh wait, republicans are not supporting laws like that because they're not actually interested in voter fraud, they're interested in violating the fifth amendment for their political gain.
 
gdgyva said:
as far as i am concerned....yes

military have their ID's....one of the first things you get

students get a picture ID at every college i have seen

but should they vote where they are in school, or where their home of record is?

sometimes it is the same....sometimes not

hence the need for absentee ballots.....

some people are still US citizens, but live and work abroad....should they have a right to vote....absolutely

but should they have to show an ID somewhere? maybe at a consulate, an embassy, some official US government place....i would think that appropriate

how much of an undue burden on them would that be? i dont know....

i would almost like to have a national registry....register once, and then just show a picture ID every time you vote

i wouldnt even mind a national get out the vote registry type of thing....i want people who should have a voice to have a voice

i just want to make sure that the Tom Jones on the registrar's list is the guy pulling the lever....that's all
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The kind of disconnect in the debate is I'm sure many democrats would support all kinds of reasonable steps to improve our voting system, make it more secure, and that would require an ID to vote. I'd trade a nationwide, one time and you're done, national voter registry that's updated with IRS or post office or SS data for a photo voting ID in a heartbeat. Make the process easy, secure, portable from house to house, state to state, etc. and a photo ID still leaves the process FAR more secure, reliable, less prone to fraud, and that has almost everyone registered at 18 and for the rest of their days.

But just for example, you mention student IDs, but GOP strict voting rules states do not allow people to use a student ID to vote.

And you mention you favor showing ID to vote absentee, but Texas and NC which had their voting changes struck down required NO ID to vote absentee.

So kind of the point is some of us, me at least, aren't opposed to ID in principle but am bitterly opposed to some GOP led voting rights regimes that clearly are intended only to drive down the votes of poor people who live in cities (i.e. blacks who vote overwhelmingly democratic), and other likely Democratic voters such as students. That's why NC and Texas and many others kept student IDs off the list, and IDs that poor people in cities already have. But the same bill that required VERY strict photo ID at the polls where nearly no "voter fraud" takes place totally exempted absentee ballots from any ID requirement at all. You can say a lot of things about a voting regime like that, but designed to eliminate 'voter fraud' isn't one of them, and that wasn't the purpose (giving GOP candidates an advantage was).
 
This is an unjust ruling. So what if minorities - I'm one - are less likely to have ID? What's preventing them from getting some? So if a minority is less likely to have or carry a driver's license, then they should be exempted from having to do so while driving? What if a minority is less likely obey traffic signals? Should we get rid of these too - just to accommodate minorities?

I want to know what else can be scrapped to accommodate me as a minority. Let me make a big long wish list for Supreme Santa Claus.

If the problem is ignorance or lack of effort by some groups, then why not address this through a voter education/registration drive?
 
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Cardinal said:
False equivalency. Suppression of votes is a specifically Republican tactic.
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Actually, it's a commonly used Southern tactic. Southern Democrats engaged in votier suppression for nearly 100 years. Republicans took up the mantle of state's rights from them, and continued with the attempts to bring down voter turnout.

The North and West generally been better at supporting everyone having the same rights.

Not always, but generally. Where do we keep having the same issues of politicians making it harder for certain groups to vote?

9/10 times on this forum we're talking about some state that joined the Confederacy.
 
we're sorely in need of more federal election guidelines so that individual states can't make it more difficult to vote. basically, an agreed upon standard concerning ID requirements, number of polling places per capita, and length of the period for early voting. additionally, election days should be federal holidays. a lot of jobs don't provide PTO, so long lines are an effective poll tax. everyone should get election day off with PTO.
 
Hatuey said:
Actually, it's a commonly used Southern tactic. Southern Democrats engaged in votier suppression for nearly 100 years. Republicans took up the mantle of state's rights from them, and continued with the attempts to bring down voter turnout.

The North and West generally been better at supporting everyone having the same rights.

Not always, but generally. Where do we keep having the same issues of politicians making it harder for certain groups to vote?

9/10 times on this forum we're talking about some state that joined the Confederacy.
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Why does a law that doesn't make reference to race amount to a racial tactic? You might as well be saying that the requirement of having a Driver's License to drive a car amounts to a conspiracy to keep the poor from driving. The right to vote is a right - but it's a right that can be taken away from you by someone who votes when they have no right to. Your vote would then be undermined by the one casting their vote illegally.

I think you're also trying to say that minorities are mentally feeble - maybe you are, but I'm not - and that they can't move their lips competently or make decisions competently to prove who they are.
 
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