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Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum sent

Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Gaius46 said:
You didn't ask me but I'll answer. It's a piece of ****. Arguably the largest, smelliest, most disgusting piece of **** the supreme court ever served up.
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I agree with you.

I'm not sure those I am discussing drug laws with are prepared for what the "Government shouldn't regulate private drug consumption!" argument actually encompasses.

In a very real way the War on Drugs was made possible by Wickard v. Filburn. I would be more than happy to see the War on Drugs end if it meant overturning Wickard v. Filburn.

... but then you'd still have that pesky problem with drug cartels selling across state lines, so the war would probably continue.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Of all the people in prisons around the world, 25% of them are in America although we only have 5% of the population. Do we really need to lock up more Americans? Besides, he wants to lock up people for pot violations which aren't the prob today.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Winston said:
No, we've been moving towards lighter sentences for simple possession.

Does Sessions realize his stance on mandatory minimums disproportionately affects the minority population that he's accused of being a racist towards?

Also, did you see private prisons stocks jumped considerably after Trump's win. This is the opposite of where we need to go as a country. Building more private prisons to house immigrants and drug users is destructive and immoral.

Mandatory minimums are immoral, not drug use. Sessions proves again he's a small minded bigot.
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I consider it immoral to demand that others be forced to pay for treatment of folks that became addicts (the "medical" solution?) by way of their own "free" actions. With freedom comes personal responsibility. I have no objection to letting folks sell or use these poisons so long as they harm no others - which includes the harm done by demanding that others help pay the price to fix their mistakes (including their own addiction). Most "drug related" crime is not simply folks using, buying or selling drugs - it is the violent and/or property crime committed to get "access to" that next, all important, dose of their drug of choice or turf to sell those doses on.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
I don't support for-profit private prisons, I think they should be abolished. The DEA doesn't prevent the FDA from doing anything. Also, the Controlled Substances Act is responsible for drug classifications, not the DEA.



Wrong
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Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_cannabis_from_Schedule_I_of_the_Controlled_Substances_Act
DEA: Marijuana Extracts Including CBD Are Schedule I Drugs - Rolling Stone

Looks like the DEA can define how a drug is "scheduled". So can the FDA? I'm confused and need to research more when I have the time.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/emergencymedicine/emergencymedicine/46717
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

<alt>doxygen said:
Then they should need to do the same with drugs in general. Pass a constitutional amendment to ban them.

The alcohol ban basically created the mafia. We should have learned from that experience. To this day, alcohol and tobacco are the worst killers when it comes to drugs.
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Same still is happening now, with the biggest victims being the average Mexican citizens who are being terrorist by the drug cartels.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

<alt>doxygen said:
Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_cannabis_from_Schedule_I_of_the_Controlled_Substances_Act
DEA: Marijuana Extracts Including CBD Are Schedule I Drugs - Rolling Stone

Looks like the DEA can define how a drug is "scheduled". So can the FDA? I'm confused and need to research more when I have the time.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/emergencymedicine/emergencymedicine/46717
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We apparently have crossed signals. I thought you meant that the DEA defines the drug classifications.

But still, no, the DEA doesn't prevent FDA drug testing or approval. The sheer number of opioids on the market alone is evidence to that.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

<alt>doxygen said:
Then they should need to do the same with drugs in general. Pass a constitutional amendment to ban them.

The alcohol ban basically created the mafia. We should have learned from that experience. To this day, alcohol and tobacco are the worst killers when it comes to drugs.
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I am all for taking away the federal government's power to ban things.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
I agree with you.

I'm not sure those I am discussing drug laws with are prepared for what the "Government shouldn't regulate private drug consumption!" argument actually encompasses.

In a very real way the War on Drugs was made possible by Wickard v. Filburn. I would be more than happy to see the War on Drugs end if it meant overturning Wickard v. Filburn.

... but then you'd still have that pesky problem with drug cartels selling across state lines, so the war would probably continue.
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I agree though I expect that should drugs be legalized the drug cartels would move on to other businesses. The mob really isn't into bootleg whiskey any more.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

ttwtt78640 said:
I consider it immoral to demand that others be forced to pay for treatment of folks that became addicts (the "medical" solution?) by way of their own "free" actions. With freedom comes personal responsibility. I have no objection to letting folks sell or use these poisons so long as they harm no others - which includes the harm done by demanding that others help pay the price to fix their mistakes (including their own addiction). Most "drug related" crime is not simply folks using, buying or selling drugs - it is the violent and/or property crime committed to get "access to" that next, all important, dose of their drug of choice or turf to sell those doses on.
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We are talking about pot right? Not crack and heroine. Those are already felonies and repeat offenders face jail time or a suspended jail term contingent on treatment.

I'm astounded of all the injustices in the world you would moralize about tax payer money going to fund people get the help they need. How about alcoholics? Are they criminals who have legal access to poison and should therefore be locked away lest the stainless tax payer be besmirched.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
We apparently have crossed signals. I thought you meant that the DEA defines the drug classifications.

But still, no, the DEA doesn't prevent FDA drug testing or approval. The sheer number of opioids on the market alone is evidence to that.
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The problem is weed is a schedule 1 drug which means it has no redeeming value - even in research.

Heroin is a schedule 2 drug which means it does have medicinal value. Hence all the opoid drugs.

Our laws reflect the drug classification schedule set forth by the UN in a treaty that we are signatory to. I think it's the "Single Convention on Illicit Drugs" or something like that.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Winston said:
We are talking about pot right? Not crack and heroine. Those are already felonies and repeat offenders face jail time or a suspended jail term contingent on treatment.

I'm astounded of all the injustices in the world you would moralize about tax payer money going to fund people get the help they need. How about alcoholics? Are they criminals who have legal access to poison and should therefore be locked away lest the stainless tax payer be besmirched.
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I saw no such thing in the OP, in fact, it seemed geared toward the current opioid addiction and overdose problem. On the one hand you want freedom to ingest addictive poisons and on the other hand you wish to force others to pay for helping those that made that free choice. Why not compromise - personal freedom includes the personal responsibility to deal with the consequences of your choices.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Gaius46 said:
The problem is weed is a schedule 1 drug which means it has no redeeming value - even in research.

Heroin is a schedule 2 drug which means it does have medicinal value. Hence all the opoid drugs.

Our laws reflect the drug classification schedule set forth by the UN in a treaty that we are signatory to. I think it's the "Single Convention on Illicit Drugs" or something like that.
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Cannabis is Schedule I, but that doesn't mean that derivatives of Cannabis must be Schedule I, or that it blocks study of cannabis for medical purposes.

Heroin is also Schedule I, not Schedule II, but not all opioids are Schedule I.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Granted, Peyote and it's derivative Mescaline are both Schedule I, but I think Marijuana is a bit different in that the component that most people smoke pot for is not the component with reported medicinal benefit.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

ttwtt78640 said:
I agree and favor work release (pay the state for the cost of incarceration, a reasonable punitive fine and victim restitution) over simple lock them up for nearly all non-violent offenders. Your sentence is therefore variable - you remain under work release status until $X (your debt to society?) has been repaid.
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That's why we have judges, it's actually one of the reasons I am firmly against maniditory sentences. Yes, lots of variances, would depend on if there is a victim or not. But I think we can do quite a bit of punishment via fines and community service over prison. There are crimes that legitimately require prisons, and mostly that's going to be violent or victim based crimes.

In the end, we have the highest prison population per capita of anyone, and I'm just not so sure that Americans are so much more violent than others to excuse that. Mostly, we have a lot of crap laws meant to feed the system so government and private prison can prosper at the cost of The People.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
Cannabis is Schedule I, but that doesn't mean that derivatives of Cannabis must be Schedule I, or that it blocks study of cannabis for medical purposes.

Heroin is also Schedule I, not Schedule II, but not all opioids are Schedule I.
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I stand corrected. Thank you.

I remember watching a report on CNN where a researched was interviewed and she claimed that because cannabis is schedule 1 it makes it next to impossible to do any research on it. Research can be done but the hoops that people have to jump through apparently make it next to impossible.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
Good question. What are your thoughts on Wickard v. Filburn?
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I am opposed to that decision. But even that case didn't stretch Commerce Clause as far as the drug war crusaders take it.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

ttwtt78640 said:
What is the correct policy for drugs like heroin, meth or cocaine?
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Perpetual imprisonment for the people who do these drugs. Their family too.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Geoist said:
I am opposed to that decision. But even that case didn't stretch Commerce Clause as far as the drug war crusaders take it.
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It sure did. Hell, it forbid the growing of WHEAT for private use.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Gaius46 said:
I stand corrected. Thank you.

I remember watching a report on CNN where a researched was interviewed and she claimed that because cannabis is schedule 1 it makes it next to impossible to do any research on it. Research can be done but the hoops that people have to jump through apparently make it next to impossible.
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I had to look it up myself and I have seen a few pages that list it as Schedule II, but the actual government lists I found all had it as Schedule I.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Fishking said:
Same still is happening now, with the biggest victims being the average Mexican citizens who are being terrorist by the drug cartels.
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They are. Which is why the drug war, which the USA started and demanded other countries participate in, is a colossal mistake.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
We apparently have crossed signals. I thought you meant that the DEA defines the drug classifications.

But still, no, the DEA doesn't prevent FDA drug testing or approval. The sheer number of opioids on the market alone is evidence to that.
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Yes, and I made an error in my statement. I retract & thanks for pointing out. I know a few things I didn't know when I woke up thanks to the resulting search engine activity.;)
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

Gaius46 said:
Just what we need. To put more people, who are no threat to anyone, in jail for longer stretches of time. ****ing morons.

If we want to jail people how about we jail people who actually pose a threat to other people. How about we treat low level dealers, who generally don't hurt people, as misdemeanor offenders and users as medical problems?
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Because that would be intelligent. And there are a lot of people profiting mightily off rampant stupidity.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

<alt>doxygen said:
Yes, and I made an error in my statement. I retract & thanks for pointing out. I know a few things I didn't know when I woke up thanks to the resulting search engine activity.;)
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Haha! Same. It's always a successful day when you learn something!

Until today I didn't know that Mescaline was a derivative of peyote.
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

MrPeanut said:
Sessions is really crazy when it comes to weed.

Jeff Sessions’ Coming War on Legal Marijuana - POLITICO Magazine
As a U.S. Attorney in Alabama in the 1980s, Sessions said he thought the KKK "were OK until I found out they smoked pot.”
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Those private prison companies that donated to the Trump campaign need more inmates to increase corporate profits...

Jeff Sessions Reverses Obama-Era Policy That Curtailed DOJ’s Private Prison Use

Private Prison Company Geo Group Gave Generously to Trump and Now Has Lucrative Contract

Under Mr. Trump, Private Prisons Thrive Again
 
Re: Sessions orders return to tough drug war policies that trigger mandatory minimum

jmotivator said:
Haha! Same. It's always a successful day when you learn something!

Until today I didn't know that Mescaline was a derivative of peyote.
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That I knew. I had forgotten that coke has a weaker classification than weed and LSD - there are other strange ones but that stuck. I also did not realize how much power the AG has with regard to this stuff. Too much, I think.
 
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