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Mormons to leave Boy Scouts

VanceMack said:
Elogamgusset Nebagamon Lodge, baby. 18 years as a scout leader in the Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Explorer levels.

I think it's a shame that the Scouts were attacked, vilified, and eventually the organization caved to external pressures from people that had absolutely nothing to do with Scouting. I think if they fade into obscurity that will be a true shame...but it will be by the national organizations hand and choices.


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BSA Troop 6. Eagle Scout, Vigal OA, Owl patrol woodbadge,

I got out of it when it no longer was fun. The PETA moms stopped the survival weekend because involved catching and cleaning live chickens. The Vegan mom's stopped the Thanksgiving in the woods because it wasn't friendly to her diet. Cell phones IPods distracting the sounds of nature.
The non swimmers stopping the weeklong canoe trip.

I think back to stuff I did as s Scout if it happened today charges would be brought
 
Cryptic said:
This just in:

Mormon church to pull thousands of teens from Boy Scouts of America | Fox News

This can be devastating for the Scouts as an organization. Evidently the Mormons are going to leave in stages and establish an alternative scouting organization (no doubt it will be efficient and well funded).

The decision comes as a big surprise to me. I thought the Mormons had accepted the gay adult inclusion decision if religiously sponsored troops were exempt the new rules. Now, they are leaving en mass an organization that has already seen steadily declining membership. This could well bring concerns about the fiscal viability of the BSA.

As a Boy Scout participant, I also want to know what the heck was the senior leadership thinking. I ass-u me-d that they had consulted with the Mormons before ordering the changes. As for myself, I would have welcomed more language into the guidelines emphasizing that troops are autonomous, select their own leaders, and can have their own developed emphasizes etc.

Getting off my soap box now.... .
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Scouts are so 1950's. Kids today would rather play with their Gameboys than learn to make a fire and tie knots. In a way, BS were gehy long before they began allowing Gays in.
 
Big deal.

the Church wants to add more religion into their young men programs outside of the BSA program. More power to them.

As far as the BSA..as a former scout and a long time scout leader, pack leader, den father.. its great to see that the BSA adhere to their morals and ethics and allow gay troop leaders. Good to see the BSA stand up for whats right.. and not whats popular.
 
calamity said:
Scouts are so 1950's. Kids today would rather play with their Gameboys than learn to make a fire and tie knots. In a way, BS were gehy long before they began allowing Gays in.
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Gameboys are so 20th century. Kids today would wonder what on earth you're talking about, old timer. ;)
 
Snakebite said:
Why can't there be many different scouting organizations? You know, the free market way. Then you can pick one that's right for your kid.
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Because you gotta get some sort of liability coverage,band I'll wager it ain't cheep.
 
KevinKohler said:
Because you gotta get some sort of liability coverage,band I'll wager it ain't cheep.
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True enough, but you'd be shocked how much money people are willing to spend on their kids.
 
Boy Scouts are for sissies anyway.

In my culture at the age of 5 you're left in the wilderness with nothing but Loincloth and a great axe and if you do not return, you are forgotten.
 
Baden Powell was a Nazi sympathiser anyway
 
VanceMack said:
Elogamgusset Nebagamon Lodge, baby. 18 years as a scout leader in the Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Explorer levels.

I think it's a shame that the Scouts were attacked, vilified, and eventually the organization caved to external pressures from people that had absolutely nothing to do with Scouting. I think if they fade into obscurity that will be a true shame...but it will be by the national organizations hand and choices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Skyuka lodge here.


How was it being a scout master? I think I'm eventually going to have to start my own troop, because the ones local to me, from what I've seen, ain't gonna cut it. They don't even go rafting. I mean, being as its CT, I guess I get the no rifle practice and stuff...but they don't raft, canoe, kayak, you name it...they barely go camping.
 
Chillfolks said:
BSA Troop 6. Eagle Scout, Vigal OA, Owl patrol woodbadge,

I got out of it when it no longer was fun. The PETA moms stopped the survival weekend because involved catching and cleaning live chickens. The Vegan mom's stopped the Thanksgiving in the woods because it wasn't friendly to her diet. Cell phones IPods distracting the sounds of nature.
The non swimmers stopping the weeklong canoe trip.

I think back to stuff I did as s Scout if it happened today charges would be brought
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Exactly.


I don't know. One way or another, I'm gonna make those activities happen again for my kids...and if other parents want their kids to tag along....
 
They're such a cult that they can just snap their fingers and thousands of kids will drop their passion

I always hear from religious fanatics, "hate the sin not the sinner," but it's hard to believe that when we're talking about total segregation from 12 year olds who have probably never acted on their urges

What they're demanding is those 12 year olds to be cruelly expelled from BSA, totally unacceptable
 
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VanceMack said:
Elogamgusset Nebagamon Lodge, baby. 18 years as a scout leader in the Boy Scouts, Varsity, and Explorer levels.

I think it's a shame that the Scouts were attacked, vilified, and eventually the organization caved to external pressures from people that had absolutely nothing to do with Scouting. I think if they fade into obscurity that will be a true shame...but it will be by the national organizations hand and choices.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The values of society have changed and the BSA existed in a 1950s bubble. It's funny, as a boy I sort of regretted not getting involved in Boy Scouts but a friend of mine, who's dad is campmaster at a BSA camp, invited me to spend a few days there with them last year. I was expecting tents or at most a few cabins and bonfires. Instead it was a decent dormitory with air conditioning and a galley kitchen. And I got to watch some troop making dutch oven cakes with propane grills - presumably to earn some sort of badge - while their fathers reminisced about "smear the queer" games at the camp in their day and complained about the cost today. As a man, I realize BSA had absolutely nothing of value to offer me and I'm grateful to have had engaging parents and grandparents who didn't pay copious amounts of money to BSA to raise me instead. This organization should have died long ago.
 
d0gbreath said:
Good luck to their new scouting endeavors.

Utah is beautiful. I dream of buying a small rural place there (with a view, but that's every window in the State).

Outside of Utah, I don't know of any enclaves. I know no Mormons here. Scouting will carry on in Tejas!
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Denton has a stake with several wards as well as presence at both major universities.
 
KevinKohler said:
I'm not active anymore, but when I lived in SC, I gave a lot of time to it. This is why stuff like this hurts, for me. I love the BSA, I've put a lot of myself into it. I want my son to be a scout, and to get out of it what I got...but from what I've seen, scouting just isn't what it used to be. Could be cultural, I mean, worlds of difference between SC and CT...but frankly, the scouting activities and such in CT are just sad. At scout summer camp, we used to have an activity called Trek, basically a 50 mile hike out into the middle of nowhere. No such thing up here, no bike trek, they're not even allowed to play flashlight tag (war, as we called it) at night, because, you know, a knee could get skinned, or an elbow bashed.
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Saw this on reddit:

"Its not a full suprise but it saddens me that the church is getting rid of their bsa program and are replacing it with their own version of "Joseph Smith Youth". Even when I was a member I loved the boy scouts because it was escape from talking about religion all the time,"

I don't know about CT scouts, but this is the real reason this move is sad. It will not impact kids in CT at all, which probably has about 2-3 mormon scouts, but it will damn sure be a blight on the childhood of mormon kids who are being used in another addition to LDS self promotion

Must like the kids in Texas who won't get adopted if that bill passes. Sad week for child rights
 
Napoleon said:
The values of society have changed and the BSA existed in a 1950s bubble. It's funny, as a boy I sort of regretted not getting involved in Boy Scouts but a friend of mine, who's dad is campmaster at a BSA camp, invited me to spend a few days there with them last year. I was expecting tents or at most a few cabins and bonfires. Instead it was a decent dormitory with air conditioning and a galley kitchen. And I got to watch some troop making dutch oven cakes with propane grills - presumably to earn some sort of badge - while their fathers reminisced about "smear the queer" games at the camp in their day and complained about the cost today. As a man, I realize BSA had absolutely nothing of value to offer me and I'm grateful to have had engaging parents and grandparents who didn't pay copious amounts of money to BSA to raise me instead. This organization should have died long ago.
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So you spent a few days at "a" Scout camp and, from that experience, determined that "this" organization should have died long ago? I don't get it. Which organization was that? The one you thought you saw or the one you've never seen? :confused:
 
KevinKohler said:
I'm not active anymore, but when I lived in SC, I gave a lot of time to it. This is why stuff like this hurts, for me. I love the BSA, I've put a lot of myself into it. I want my son to be a scout, and to get out of it what I got...but from what I've seen, scouting just isn't what it used to be. Could be cultural, I mean, worlds of difference between SC and CT...but frankly, the scouting activities and such in CT are just sad. At scout summer camp, we used to have an activity called Trek, basically a 50 mile hike out into the middle of nowhere. No such thing up here, no bike trek, they're not even allowed to play flashlight tag (war, as we called it) at night, because, you know, a knee could get skinned, or an elbow bashed.
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Sad to hear. I've done some volunteer stuff with a local troop, enjoyed it. The Scoutmaster is OA.
 
KevinKohler said:
I think helicopter moms and litigation killed the scouts. Still makes me sad, though. I'm an Eagle Scout, and OA member. I think we never should have allowed girls in. I think we should have treated the Girl Scouts more like the Boy Scouts. You could say we need unisex, and just call it scouts....but frankly, boys don't want to have to hang out with a bunch of girls, and vice versa for the girls. Not sure what I'm gonna do with my kids if scouting ends. I want my son to have similar experiences that I had, and the same for my daughter.
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That may be, but the real reason they would pull out is females just aren't respected within mormonism. They get to make no covenants, only swear obedience to their husbands. So mixed gender scouts for that reason is anathema to mormons. Just like gay or trans scouts
 
justabubba said:
organized sports are today what scouting was in my era (50's - 60's)
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I believe you are right.

I lived in a rural farming community and we never had the Scouts but we did have the 4H. I look back at that time and the parents made the 4H so special.
We were just all hicks out in the middle of nowhere but the parents made up for it with the 4H community. We had county wide talent shows and of course the county fair.
Monthly meetings with always something special and the special holiday events. I owe those parents a lot.

But now with the invent of the internet there is no such thing as that hick in the middle of nowhere. The times have changed.
 
KevinKohler said:
Skyuka lodge here.


How was it being a scout master? I think I'm eventually going to have to start my own troop, because the ones local to me, from what I've seen, ain't gonna cut it. They don't even go rafting. I mean, being as its CT, I guess I get the no rifle practice and stuff...but they don't raft, canoe, kayak, you name it...they barely go camping.
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I loved it. I love scouting. I wish they had an Eagle Scout program for adults...I think the BSA missed the boat on that. We had a basic principle...scouts camp. We went on a weekend camp once a month, rain, wind, snow...whatever. We did survival treks. We always did at least one week long annual camp. I used to tell my kids...especially my Eagle scouts "I dont care if you get lost but when they find you your shelter better have running water and electricity." We went on a hike one year (we had a topographical map and course charted by the forestry department and were helping with the trail and stations along the trek as a service project) that was brutal and ended up in the mountains overnight without any camping gear or sleeping bags and without planning for extra meals and ended up pooling resources and built shelters, dug wells, had enough emergency rations for 2 complete meals for all the kids...it was a real world survival experience and it was awesome.

I love the scouting program. I am un-fond of the political aspects...but I love the programs.
 
Napoleon said:
The values of society have changed and the BSA existed in a 1950s bubble. It's funny, as a boy I sort of regretted not getting involved in Boy Scouts but a friend of mine, who's dad is campmaster at a BSA camp, invited me to spend a few days there with them last year. I was expecting tents or at most a few cabins and bonfires. Instead it was a decent dormitory with air conditioning and a galley kitchen. And I got to watch some troop making dutch oven cakes with propane grills - presumably to earn some sort of badge - while their fathers reminisced about "smear the queer" games at the camp in their day and complained about the cost today. As a man, I realize BSA had absolutely nothing of value to offer me and I'm grateful to have had engaging parents and grandparents who didn't pay copious amounts of money to BSA to raise me instead. This organization should have died long ago.
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My experience is radically different. But I understand what you are saying.
 
Napoleon said:
The values of society have changed and the BSA existed in a 1950s bubble. It's funny, as a boy I sort of regretted not getting involved in Boy Scouts but a friend of mine, who's dad is campmaster at a BSA camp, invited me to spend a few days there with them last year. I was expecting tents or at most a few cabins and bonfires. Instead it was a decent dormitory with air conditioning and a galley kitchen. And I got to watch some troop making dutch oven cakes with propane grills - presumably to earn some sort of badge - while their fathers reminisced about "smear the queer" games at the camp in their day and complained about the cost today. As a man, I realize BSA had absolutely nothing of value to offer me and I'm grateful to have had engaging parents and grandparents who didn't pay copious amounts of money to BSA to raise me instead. This organization should have died long ago.
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Honestly, i was sent to summer camp for a week twice and probably did as much as scouts ever would, except instead of spend a whole week hiking we'd do it for a day...which was plenty. The kind of things that some here are reminiscing about, like 50 miles of hiking, would bore the piss out of any kid raised on 21st century tech

And then there's the theory that LDS has held scouting back and with them gone there will be a modernization
 
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Crosscheck said:
I believe you are right.

I lived in a rural farming community and we never had the Scouts but we did have the 4H. I look back at that time and the parents made the 4H so special.
We were just all hicks out in the middle of nowhere but the parents made up for it with the 4H community. We had county wide talent shows and of course the county fair.
Monthly meetings with always something special and the special holiday events. I owe those parents a lot.

But now with the invent of the internet there is no such thing as that hick in the middle of nowhere. The times have changed.
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Eh that's not really true. There's fewer dirt roads, but there's still cow **** everywhere and the internet in truly rural areas blows. The county fair is still there, still sells confederate flags even in the midwest. There's still 4H animals and they have a tractor pull at the grandstands. They're still 98% white and they still hate the 'other'

Trust me, as i lived in a town of 700 only a few years ago. They're still hicks and they're still 30 miles to nowhere. If they're online it's to look up porn
 
KevinKohler said:
Exactly.


I don't know. One way or another, I'm gonna make those activities happen again for my kids...and if other parents want their kids to tag along....
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We used to go to a scout camp up next to Yellowstone for our week long outings. Both of my sons worked there during the summer. Usually in addition to a whole bunch of other scout organizations there would almost always be a group of young men from a YMCA or other youth group that was not an official scouting charter. Most of the kids were from the cities. That camp had real world rappelling and rock climbing up some massive faces, hikes to the Grand Teton, a lake where people swim, fish, learn to sail, canoe, do overnight primitive survival trips, it had archery ranges, gun ranges, primitive skills courses, geo-trekking...just so many cool things for kids to do. It brought worlds together. The fireside ceremonies...ghost and legend stories...people talk about kids with their tech...but Im here to tell you...I never saw a group of kids go through those camps that werent sad to see it end. Inner city kids could go back and talk about going down a 200 foot rock face. About sailing a little 2 man sunfish. Makes me miss it just thinking about it.
 
Ahlevah said:
So you spent a few days at "a" Scout camp and, from that experience, determined that "this" organization should have died long ago? I don't get it. Which organization was that? The one you thought you saw or the one you've never seen? :confused:
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I think people who have extended experience with this organization tend to romanticize it. What kind of values are you teaching children when you allow racially segregated troops until 1974 and ban LGBT youth and strip them of their membership for no reason other than their sexual orientation until 2014? What you produce with bigoted policies are bigoted adults who pine for the days when "smear the queer" was a legitimate scouting activity.

That's the ugly reality of this organization - bigotry that is old, runs deep, and takes a long time to change. So long that it hasn't kept pace with modern American values. That is what happens when you take what could have been a good program and create huge dependencies on religious zealots for implementation.

None of this is to say that it never yielded positive outcomes. After all, the resistance against those policies started from within - by Scouts and Scout Leaders who paid the price because they felt that racial segregation or LGBT bans were not consistent with the values the organization was supposed to be imparting.
 
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VanceMack said:
The BSA started down their road to TU when they collapsed on their values. You cannot possibly have a code that you expect young men to know and live up to as a part of scouting, only to capitulate to societies whims. Ironically...they caved in to pressure from groups...that never were a part of scouting, never planned on being a part of scouting, didnt jump into scouting after the concessions, and all at the expense of organizations that have completely carried scouting for decades.

This frankly wont have a ton of impact on the number of young men involved in scouting. It doesnt impact the 'Boy Scouts'. It impacts the Varsity and Explorer age scouts but many of those tend to become less active in scouting as High school activities become more pressing. The LDS church is focusing on activities that will keep them engaged. Not much to see here really. Eventually...I can see them completely dissociating from the BSA...but that will be on the BSA's actions.
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Actually, teaching boys how to be good citizens in a society is one of the main tenets of the BSA. So it stands to reason that they would have to "bend to societies whims" in order to be good citizens, does it not?
 
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