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AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud [W:32]

Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

It was 3 mil, not 5. ;)

3 to 5, actually, and since Trump always tries to exaggerate, I thought I'd err on the side if bigly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/
And in order to prove that Trump might be correct we have to first conduct an investigation. That is what Trump, according to the OP of this thread is wanting. You want a reason for that investigation to happen. I'm attempting to give you reasons why such an investigation should happen by showing that it is quite a reasonable deduction based on circumstantial evidence that illegals may be voting. That criteria is what we are establishing.

  • Past illegal conduct (conduct that is not just being in the US illegally but other criminal activities, and no, I'm not talking about murder, rape, or drugs)
  • Past general conduct
  • Knowledge based on what happens, or doesn't happen, when illegals do certain things.

Would you agree that it is possible to reasonably deduct that illegal aliens would vote based on those three things if I were to give examples of each happening?

You would have to give evidence that would demonstrate the potential that illegal voting had occurred on such a massive scale.

All available evidence indicates that in person voter fraud is infinitesimally small.

https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

Look, I don't know why this is so difficult for some people to accept, but Trump's claim was clearly an overblown lie, an attempt to create a political tool, from a grandstanding buffoon. There simply is no credible evidence that what he said is based in reality.
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Newp. More like a solution in search of a problem.

There is no evidence that our current system has allowed for 5,000,000 illegal voters. None.

You haven't made a reasonable case that it needs changing.

I don't care if it's not millions - since it takes only one vote to cancel (or double) mine. ;)
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

You would have to give evidence that would demonstrate the potential that illegal voting had occurred on such a massive scale.

So those criteria that I mentioned means nothing? That people wouldn't see those things are reasonable deductions to believe that illegals could be voting en masse?

All available evidence indicates that in person voter fraud is infinitesimally small.

https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/voter-fraud

Key words there...."available evidence". As already pointed out, there is no check in the system to make sure that only US Citizens are voting. Since there is no check on that then there is no way to gather evidence based on current techniques used by organizations such as the link that you provided. There needs to be an indepth investigation. One which has the authority to actually check citizenship status of the votes turned in. Which no organization has ever done.

Look, I don't know why this is so difficult for some people to accept, but Trump's claim was clearly an overblown lie, an attempt to create a political tool, from a grandstanding buffoon. There simply is no credible evidence that what he said is based in reality.

Neither you, nor I, know if its a lie or not. Much less an overblown one. There is no evidence in either direction. But there is circumstantial evidence based on illegal aliens past history of criminal actions, general actions, and widely known knowledge that it is possible that illegal aliens are voting in our elections.

Is it really all that difficult to understand that based on those 3 criteria that it is reasonable for folks to question whether or not illegal aliens are voting? That folks want this investigation based on those things?
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

So those criteria that I mentioned means nothing? That people wouldn't see those things are reasonable deductions to believe that illegals could be voting en masse?

They mean nothing to the subject that I was addressing, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. No, I don't consider it a reasonable deduction that illegals could be voting en masse.
Key words there...."available evidence". As already pointed out, there is no check in the system to make sure that only US Citizens are voting. Since there is no check on that then there is no way to gather evidence based on current techniques used by organizations such as the link that you provided. There needs to be an indepth investigation. One which has the authority to actually check citizenship status of the votes turned in. Which no organization has ever done.

Again, until I see something substantial that would justify it, I don't see the need for any such investigation.
Neither you, nor I, know if its a lie or not. Much less an overblown one. There is no evidence in either direction. But there is circumstantial evidence based on illegal aliens past history of criminal actions, general actions, and widely known knowledge that it is possible that illegal aliens are voting in our elections.

Is it really all that difficult to understand that based on those 3 criteria that it is reasonable for folks to question whether or not illegal aliens are voting? That folks want this investigation based on those things?

I know that based on available evidence and the history of the man who stated it the likelihood that it's a lie is approaching 1.00.

And a past history of illegal activity by illegal aliens in no way, to my estimation, rises to the level of circumstantial evidence that they maaaaaay be voting illegally on some massive scale. "Look, Jorge got popped for an OC and jaywalking! OMG! HE COULD HAVE VOTED ILLEGALLY AND SWAYED THE ELECTION!"

The totality of circumstances has not risen to a level (yet) where I find those assumption reasonable or rational.
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

They mean nothing to the subject that I was addressing, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. No, I don't consider it a reasonable deduction that illegals could be voting en masse.

Again, until I see something substantial that would justify it, I don't see the need for any such investigation.

I know that based on available evidence and the history of the man who stated it the likelihood that it's a lie is approaching 1.00.

And a past history of illegal activity by illegal aliens in no way, to my estimation, rises to the level of circumstantial evidence that they maaaaaay be voting illegally on some massive scale. "Look, Jorge got popped for an OC and jaywalking! OMG! HE COULD HAVE VOTED ILLEGALLY AND SWAYED THE ELECTION!"

The totality of circumstances has not risen to a level (yet) where I find those assumption reasonable or rational.

You know that I wasn't talking about "jay walking" or anything like that. I had already even stated that I wasn't talking about murder, or rape or illegal drug activity. So obviously jay walking wouldn't be a part of the equation would it?

Not that it matters. For you there is no need for an investigation because the ONLY thing that you would accept as evidence is something which cannot be achieved unless an investigation can be conducted that checks the citizenship status of those that voted. No matter how much you tout those other studies you cannot deny the fact that none of them check the citizenship status of those that vote. Which means that there is a large hole in determining whether or not illegals are voting or not. Which makes those studies useless and meaningless.
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Of course there is no evidence. How can there be evidence when its not checked on whether the people voting are actually US citizens or not?

well what he is saying is not true.

they caught at least 40 people in CA who where illegal immigrants trying to vote.
there were other small incidents of people voting illegally as well.

the problem is each state sets it's own voting laws.

however as we saw in the recounts in WI there is little voter fraud involved.
in fact trump walked away with more votes than when he started.

the states that pushed Clinton to the popular vote lead came from CA and NY.
I mean any other locations would be dumb to look at.
however I seriously doubt 2 or even 3 million illegal votes are out there.
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

You know that I wasn't talking about "jay walking" or anything like that. I had already even stated that I wasn't talking about murder, or rape or illegal drug activity. So obviously jay walking wouldn't be a part of the equation would it?

OK, you still haven't made any case.
Not that it matters. For you there is no need for an investigation because the ONLY thing that you would accept as evidence is something which cannot be achieved unless an investigation can be conducted that checks the citizenship status of those that voted. No matter how much you tout those other studies you cannot deny the fact that none of them check the citizenship status of those that vote. Which means that there is a large hole in determining whether or not illegals are voting or not. Which makes those studies useless and meaningless.

I'm sorry, but someone making the assertion in the positive ("Illegals DID vote") has the burden of proof. It's really that simple. No, they don't check for citizenship, but that's not really relevant since the hair-on-fire claim hasn't been shown to have any merit, in any measure.

Until such a time as evidenced by voter rolls growing by millions of people or some other similar event happens, I simply don't see the need because I don't see a problem.
 
Re: AP sources: Trump to launch panel to investigate voter fraud

Sorry, but you'll understand why no rational adult takes Breitbart seriously, nor those who cite it as credible.

And, yes, that's laughter you're hearing.

Come on. The moonie Times is just as bad as Breitbart. Give him credit for knowing where to look.
 
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