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Some pastors praise Trump order, others worry over integrity

Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Media_Truth said:
Like I said, the Gas Overconsumption Party wins the ground-game hands down. Illegal proselytizing from a tax-exempt pulpit is just one example. Congressional voter redistricting. Voter suppression. Bankrupting ACORN, the "housing for the poor" organization, that also worked on registering black voters. Judicial Watch lawsuits (over 300 against Obama alone), mostly dismissed, but initiated by this 50-lawyer/investigator group nonetheless, for the Media coverage. The billionaires are investing in their interests, and it is working.
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Free speech is a natural and constitutional right. It can not be made illegal.
 
Media_Truth said:
This is something I've complained about on this forum. At my church, they put Ben Carson on the big screen on the 2nd last Sunday before the election. I agree with this comment from a Pastor in Saint Paul, MN.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-order-makes-preachers-ecstatic-others-cringe-144835720.html

"It's never good for the church or the state when the two get in bed with each other," said the Rev. Gregory Boyd, senior pastor of Woodland Hills Church, a nondenominational church in suburban St. Paul.

For pastors to use the pulpit "to get others to buy into their particular way of voting is, I think, a real abuse of authority," he added.

The Republican Party knows that this "ground game" wins them many votes, after the debates, and before the elections. Arguably, this is the single-most vote swing technique in Politics, and it probably turned the 2016 presidential election. Recall that Clinton was well ahead in the polls, after the debates. If you followed, you also noticed that polls started getting closer in the last 2 weeks.
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I would've walked out of that church. No pastor or church staff should be using worship time to campaign for a candidate.
 
Josie said:
I would've walked out of that church. No pastor or church staff should be using worship time to campaign for a candidate.
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I did, and my wife followed. Now, after the election, they're asking us to come back.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

jonny5 said:
Free speech is a natural and constitutional right. It can not be made illegal.
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Yes, it's all about big money, lawsuits, and the lack thereof. After Breitbart sent out O'Keefe and his prostitute-clad partner to Acorn offices around the country, heavily financed, with the sole intent of defamation of the organization, ACORN went bankrupt, and didn't have the resources for their only response - a lawsuit. And yet Judicial Watch has an annual budget of $35-50 Million to file lawsuit after lawsuit against Democrats. They have over 50 employees - lawyers and investigators, full-time to file defamation lawsuits. The majority are dismissed, but FOX, Breitbart and others are more than willing to air any and all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/us/politics/judicial-watch-hillary-clinton.html?_r=2
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
oh, why should i when for one thing i hear all the time is people complaining and saying, CA pays more taxes then other states" WHY are people complaining if they support direct taxes

why would i want wealth pull out of states that create it and give it to other states that don't.

if CA kept its money, it would be in a far better position economically then is having the wealth sucked out of the state by the federal government.

the states could not be bullied by the federal government with federal grants.

money staying within the state would be spent on it interest, people, its own infrastructure to make their state a better place to live and be the envy of other states to emulate them.
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You do know that the "United States of America" is one country and not 50 seperate countries right?
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Media_Truth said:
Yes, it's all about big money, lawsuits, and the lack thereof. After Breitbart sent out O'Keefe and his prostitute-clad partner to Acorn offices around the country, heavily financed, with the sole intent of defamation of the organization, ACORN went bankrupt, and didn't have the resources for their only response - a lawsuit. And yet Judicial Watch has an annual budget of $35-50 Million to file lawsuit after lawsuit against Democrats. They have over 50 employees - lawyers and investigators, full-time to file defamation lawsuits. The majority are dismissed, but FOX, Breitbart and others are more than willing to air any and all.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/us/politics/judicial-watch-hillary-clinton.html?_r=2
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Not sure what any of this has to do with your OP about the Presidents executive order limiting the Treasury depts infringement on speech.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
You do know that the "United States of America" is one country and not 50 seperate countries right?
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you know we have federalism the separation of powers

each state with is own government, able to make laws and govern people as they are meant to do.

the federal governments purpose was meant to bind the 50 states so that they could protect themselves, use the same currency, solve problems between the states

we know we don't have a national government, right ?
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
you know we have federalism the separation of powers

each state with is own government, able to make laws and govern people as they are meant to do.

the federal governments purpose was meant to bind the 50 states so that they could protect themselves, use the same currency, solve problems between the states

we know we don't have a national government, right ?
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You know we have a supremecy clause right?
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
You know we have a supremecy clause right?
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:doh you know what it means?

it means the states cannot engage in powers which are delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

it does not mean the federal government is supreme over the states, IF that were true, the government would be National and its not
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
:doh you know what it means?

it means the states cannot engage in powers which are delegated to the federal government by the constitution.

it does not mean the federal government is supreme over the states, IF that were true, the government would be National and its not
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The federal government is our national government. That local districts and the states are represented within that federal government does not make it a local or state government. And all laws made by the federal government are supreme to state laws.

Supremecy Clause:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

That is the authority of your federal... national government.
 
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Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
The federal government is our national government. That local districts and the states are represented within that federal government does not make it a local or state government. And all laws made by the federal government are supreme to state laws.

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

That is your federal... national government.
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the federal government is not a National government

its federal because of federalism

france has a national government, not the u.s.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
The federal government is our national government. That local districts and the states are represented within that federal government does not make it a local or state government. And all laws made by the federal government are supreme to state laws.

Supremecy Clause:

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.​

That is the authority of your federal... national government.
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:doh

the u.s. is a federal state

federation (also known as a federal state) is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states, as well as the division of power between them and the central government, is typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of either party, the states or the federal political body. Alternatively, federation is a form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided between a central authority and a number of constituent regions so that each region retains some degree of control over its internal affairs.


france has a national government its a unitary state

A unitary state is a state governed as a single power in which the central government is ultimately supreme and any administrative divisions (sub-national units) exercise only the powers that the central government chooses to delegate. The majority of states in the world have a unitary system of government.


Screen Shot 2017-05-10 at 8.37.21 AM.jpg

federal states in green

unitary states in blue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federation
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
the federal government is not a National government

its federal because of federalism

france has a national government, not the u.s.
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Our federal government makes laws that are the supreme law of the land that states cannot supercede. The federal government is not a state government. It is a different, national government. That it represents districts and states does not make it a state. It is national.

I don't care what semantics you want to use. It doesn't change how things are or operate.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
I don't care what semantics you want to use. Our federal government makes laws that are the supreme law of the land that states cannot supercede. The federal government is not a state government. It is a different, national government. That it represents districts and states does not make it a state. It is national.
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:doh

you clearly have no understanding of government
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
:doh

you clearly have no understanding of government
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Well becuase you use that head slapping emoticon, it clearly convinces people that you are right. /sarcasm.

Calling it federal or national doesn't change a single thing about how it operates. which you are clueless of.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
Well becuase you use that head slapping emoticon, it clearly convinces people that you are right. /sarcasm.

Calling it federal or national doesn't change a single thing about how it operates. which you are clueless of.
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i already give you a definition of the two governments one being federal and one being national

FEDERAL --------federation (also known as a federal state) is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states, as well as the division of power between them and the central government, is typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of either party, the states or the federal political body. Alternatively, federation is a form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided between a central authority and a number of constituent regions so that each region retains some degree of control over its internal affairs.



NATIONAL ----A unitary state is a state governed as a single power in which the central government is ultimately supreme and any administrative divisions (sub-national units) exercise only the powers that the central government chooses to delegate. The majority of states in the world have a unitary system of government.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
i already give you a definition of the two governments one being federal and one being national

FEDERAL --------federation (also known as a federal state) is a political entity characterized by a union of partially self-governing states or regions under a central (federal) government. In a federation, the self-governing status of the component states, as well as the division of power between them and the central government, is typically constitutionally entrenched and may not be altered by a unilateral decision of either party, the states or the federal political body. Alternatively, federation is a form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided between a central authority and a number of constituent regions so that each region retains some degree of control over its internal affairs.



NATIONAL ----A unitary state is a state governed as a single power in which the central government is ultimately supreme and any administrative divisions (sub-national units) exercise only the powers that the central government chooses to delegate. The majority of states in the world have a unitary system of government.
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ok... Has aboslutely nothing to do with the original argument about taxes that you had of what the federal government does. You are just trying to spin out of it with a semantics war.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
ok... Has aboslutely nothing to do with the original argument about taxes that you had of what the federal government does. You are just trying to spin out of it with a semantics war.
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poweRob said:
You do know that the "United States of America" is one country and not 50 seperate countries right?
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poweRob said:
The federal government is our national government. .
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:doh...
you are the one which took us off the subject of taxes, not me with your "the "United States of America" is one country and not 50 seperate countries" quote

you sought to say the federal government was supreme and of course its not as i proved to you, now you wish to return back to taxes.

if you wish to return to taxes thats fine, my point still stands direct taxes are used for redistribution of wealth in America for states and people and the federal government uses direct taxes to control institutions and the people
 
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Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
you are the one which took us off the subject of taxes, not me

:doh, you sought to say the federal government was supreme and of course its not as i proved to you, now you wish to return back to taxes.

if you wish to return to taxes thats fine, my point still stands direct taxes are for redistribution of wealth in America for states and people and the federal government uses direct taxes to control institutions and people
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So you are saying that it's your contention that it's the federal government that uses taxes, not as revenue stream but just as a control method?
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

poweRob said:
It's your contention that it's the federal government that uses taxes, not as revenue stream but just as a control method?
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direct taxes gives the federal government the ability to of control.......WHICH CAN BE SEEN!

the federal government currently is threatening cities with no federal grant money if they do not do what the federal government says because of sanctuary cities.......this is very obvious.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Master PO said:
direct taxes gives the federal government the ability to of control.......WHICH CAN BE SEEN!

the federal government currently is threatening cities with no federal grant money if they do not do what the federal government says because of sanctuary cities.......this is very obvious.
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Just skip to the end and tell us what your contention is. No federal government? What?
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

jonny5 said:
Not sure what any of this has to do with your OP about the Presidents executive order limiting the Treasury depts infringement on speech.
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If you follow the posts backward, somebody commented that a coordinated attack, from the pulpit, after the last Presidential debate, and before the election, is a very wise move by the Republicans.

I agreed, that Republicans are winning the Ground Game, not just from the pulpit, but in many other ways, primarily with big money expenditures, such as defamation lawsuits by Judicial Watch, Breitbart smear campaigns, etc.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

Media_Truth said:
If you follow the posts backward, somebody commented that a coordinated attack, from the pulpit, after the last Presidential debate, and before the election, is a very wise move by the Republicans.

I agreed, that Republicans are winning the Ground Game, not just from the pulpit, but in many other ways, primarily with big money expenditures, such as defamation lawsuits by Judicial Watch, Breitbart smear campaigns, etc.
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Yeah, that was in relation to your op. But then you went off on some strange conspiracy rant. So lets get back to the topic.
 
Re: New Exec. Order - Espouse Politics from the Pulpit

jonny5 said:
Yeah, that was in relation to your op. But then you went off on some strange conspiracy rant. So lets get back to the topic.
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I don't call the Republican billionaire Oligarch purchase of America "conspiracy rant". I call it naivety on the part of the Republican puppets. It's all related. When the Evangelicals preached politics from the pulpit at my church, they showed fetuses on the big screen. Talk about lying and manipulative. And the Oligarchs n control, don't give a hoot about abortion. Trump even said he was PRO-CHOICE. The last thing the Republican Think Tank desires is an overturn of Roe vs Wade. They use this issue to manipulate people with the Fear-of-God vote. And they'll continue to use this issue for the net 50 years, while laughing all the way to the bank, while widening their wealth gap, at the expense of the lower and middle class.
 
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