• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump slaps first tariffs on Canadian lumber

Free Trade has been a myth so far. Tariffs are imposed on US goods while other countries enjoy selling their goods in the US under a free trade agreement. The American Free Trade welfare program, leveling the playing field for other countries and sticking it to the US consumer.

I am a supporter of free trade but not under the current accepted term. Free trade means free trade!
 
DA60 said:
'The Trump administration is hitting Canada with stiff tariffs of up to 24% on lumber shipped into the United States.

These are the first tariffs imposed by President Trump, who during his election campaign threatened to use them on imports from both China and Mexico. The decision on Monday is bound to lead to a standoff and could stoke fears of a trade war between the US and Canada, two of the world's largest trade powers.'

Trump slaps first tariffs on Canadian lumber - Apr. 24, 2017


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Sounds like the beginning of the return of Smoot-Hawley.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
My job (self-employed handyman) supports the lumber industry but an increase in the cost of lumber does me no good since it simply requires me to charge more for material for a given job using lumber. The increased cost of wood may make a potential customer opt for a plastic or metal shed instead of having me build (or repair) a wooden one. The same is true of US home and truss builders - if they must charge more for building the same structure then they will likely will have decreased business. Keep in mind that we are talking about a 24% cost increase which is not trivial.
Click to expand...

The proposed tariffs will not necessarily affect lumber prices here significantly, but will affect profitability in Canada. The proposed tariffs are directed at specific companies operating in specific Canadian provinces, and range from 3% to as high as 24%. Given the differences in ownership of timber in the US and Canada, an equitable arrangement can hopefully be reached before the proposed tariffs become final. This is typical Trump negotiation tactics. A settlement is likely.
 
DA60 said:
'The Trump administration is hitting Canada with stiff tariffs of up to 24% on lumber shipped into the United States.

These are the first tariffs imposed by President Trump, who during his election campaign threatened to use them on imports from both China and Mexico. The decision on Monday is bound to lead to a standoff and could stoke fears of a trade war between the US and Canada, two of the world's largest trade powers.'

Trump slaps first tariffs on Canadian lumber - Apr. 24, 2017


Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Oh great, lumber prices will now soar.
 
humbolt said:
The proposed tariffs will not necessarily affect lumber prices here significantly, but will affect profitability in Canada. The proposed tariffs are directed at specific companies operating in specific Canadian provinces, and range from 3% to as high as 24%. Given the differences in ownership of timber in the US and Canada, an equitable arrangement can hopefully be reached before the proposed tariffs become final. This is typical Trump negotiation tactics. A settlement is likely.
Click to expand...

The difference is primarily one of scarcity, which has a natural effect on prices, Canada has more acres of timber leases thus a lower price per acre on such leases. The US has more land under grazing (cattle) leases thus we have lower grazing (cattle) leasing prices - is that unfair too? The US does goofy stuff like deciding that a spotted owl decline means that logging (rather than barred owl competition) is the primary factor. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that price differences are not always "unfair" and are caused by "cheating" rather than as a natural result of nations having different natural resources as well as public policy.
 
Mac77 said:
That not being tough

its just good business
Click to expand...

Its not yet known if this is going to be good business or not. I simply don't trust trump and his team to do this. Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to another, while getting different results, doesn't mean better results. I'll wait and see on this but I don't think the endgame of this is going to be good for the us.
 
DA60 said:
Is this the beginning of Trump's galactically stupid, protectionist campaign promise?

For America's sake...let's hope not.

No doubt, his equally, macroeconomically ignorant, diehard supporters think this is a good idea.

Here is a lesson for them...trade wars do NOTHING but raise prices for the masses and make the rich, richer. If you think they create lots of good quality jobs...you are dreaming.

Here is the last trade war in American history...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot–Hawley_Tariff_Act

Note the date...right before the Great Depression.



By the way Donald, you might want to think twice about starting a trade war with Canada - the country that imports more oil to America than all the OPEC nations combined.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm



Once again, I have ZERO loyalty to any political party or movement.
Click to expand...

http://hts.usitc.gov/view/Chapter 44

Please note the tariffs on US wood products already in place. Ranging from 20% to 40%.
 
badfish said:
Free Trade has been a myth so far. Tariffs are imposed on US goods while other countries enjoy selling their goods in the US under a free trade agreement. The American Free Trade welfare program, leveling the playing field for other countries and sticking it to the US consumer.

I am a supporter of free trade but not under the current accepted term. Free trade means free trade!
Click to expand...

Yet free trade does not mean fair trade - why does the US have the Davis-Bacon act? That goofy law states that government contractors must pay the "prevailing" wage (only on government contract jobs) yet proceed to define the "prevailing" wage as the local union wage even if hundreds of local ads successfully offer far less for the same job when not on a government contract. Let's clean up our own back yard first and get rid of our own government subsidies and artificial barriers to competition.
 
OpportunityCost said:
http://hts.usitc.gov/view/Chapter 44

Please note the tariffs on US wood products already in place. Ranging from 20% to 40%.
Click to expand...
;)

80% of all taxes the u.s. collects are income and corporate taxes, but the u.s. does collect some tariffs, however many of them the u.s federal government do not observed and collect the tax

tariffs are in the constitution article 1 section 8 clause 1
 
DA60 said:
Is this the beginning of Trump's galactically stupid, protectionist campaign promise?

For America's sake...let's hope not.

No doubt, his equally, macroeconomically ignorant, diehard supporters think this is a good idea.

Here is a lesson for them...trade wars do NOTHING but raise prices for the masses and make the rich, richer. If you think they create lots of good quality jobs...you are dreaming.

Here is the last trade war in American history...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot–Hawley_Tariff_Act

Note the date...right before the Great Depression.



By the way Donald, you might want to think twice about starting a trade war with Canada - the country that imports more oil to America than all the OPEC nations combined.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm



Once again, I have ZERO loyalty to any political party or movement.
Click to expand...
I love how people constantly talk about how the world has changed over the decades but then refer to the Smoot-Tawley Tariff as if the world hasn't changed at all. Be that as it may I'm surprised at Trump initiating a tariff on Canadian lumber. There has to be some method to this madness that I'll look into later.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The difference is primarily one of scarcity, which has a natural effect on prices, Canada has more acres of timber leases thus a lower price per acre on such leases. The US has more land under grazing (cattle) leases thus we have lower grazing (cattle) leasing prices - is that unfair too? The US does goofy stuff like deciding that a spotted owl decline means that logging (rather than barred owl competition) is the primary factor. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that price differences are not always "unfair" and are caused by "cheating" rather than as a natural result of nations having different natural resources as well as public policy.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, and note that certain Canadian framing sources provide lumber generally superior to US sources. I believe this kind of thing is a prelude to negotiation on a wide range of trade issues between the US and Canada. Government structural differences cause a certain amount of these disparities, and it's reasonable that governments work out the differences in an equitable manner. I don't doubt that it will get nasty, with a lot of finger pointing on all sides. In the end, if we are to have a free trade block, it will have to be real free trade that accommodates our inherent differences.

I actually prefer Canadian framing lumber, but when I need some heavy SYP, I want to be able to get it, and at a reasonable price too.

The spotted owl junk was just that, and we have a bunch of other ridiculous restrictions and prohibitions on logging here that ought to be trashed.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It seems that any article/news report about subsidies should, at a minimum, define the form and amount of the alleged subsidies.
Click to expand...
That's a quaint notion to expect reporting facts from CNN.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Using that "logic" then raising taxes (on anything or everything?), causing price increases, is great for the US economy. ;)
Click to expand...

That is not comparable at all
 
Praxas said:
Its not yet known if this is going to be good business or not. I simply don't trust trump and his team to do this. Swinging the pendulum from one extreme to another, while getting different results, doesn't mean better results. I'll wait and see on this but I don't think the endgame of this is going to be good for the us.
Click to expand...

Ok, you don't trust trump

big deal

You are just going to have to get used to trump in the white house making those decisions
 
WCH said:
Many elected Trump for his "America First" anti-globalism attitude. He's now proving it.
Click to expand...

I'll believe he has any integrity when he slaps tariffs on all the goods that he manufactures over seas using cheap foreign labor. Until then...its all Charlie Brown's teacher. Wh-wha...wh.wah wah....
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are we not talking about a tax increase that will raise US lumber prices? The odd thing is that Canada is moving its lumber processing facilities to the US because US labor is cheaper (and some bug infestation problems in Canada) just like US companies are doing by moving more plants to Mexico.

Canadian Lumber Companies Boost U.S. Mill Activity As Domestic Production Wanes
Click to expand...

I like it when canada moves jobs to America

But I don't want to see US jobs move to mexico

Am I being selfish and just putting my country first?

You betcha
 
Mac77 said:
Ok, you don't trust trump

big deal

You are just going to have to get used to trump in the white house making those decisions
Click to expand...

Funny you guys complained for over 8 years about obama and now you want the rest to just **** up when you guys didn't. You need to get used to the fact trump isn't a messiah or god as you guys hope and he rest of us aren't going to stand for trumpbots blowing smoke up peoples assses calling it good.
 
DA60 said:
'The Trump administration is hitting Canada with stiff tariffs of up to 24% on lumber shipped into the United States.

These are the first tariffs imposed by President Trump, who during his election campaign threatened to use them on imports from both China and Mexico. The decision on Monday is bound to lead to a standoff and could stoke fears of a trade war between the US and Canada, two of the world's largest trade powers.'

Trump slaps first tariffs on Canadian lumber - Apr. 24, 2017

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Another victory for the Trump administration.

The Canadian government has been taking advantage of the U.S for too long.

Another step in helping America - our economy, especially Wisconsin. With Obama/Hillary, they preferred siding with Canadian interests over the interest of Wisconsin dairy farmers.

Trust me, Hillary does not care about the state of Wisconsin. If she did, she would have campaigned there.

Thank you President Trump for not backing down to that punk Trudeau.
 
Now the tree huggers will be claiming to see the "orange tipped watchamacallit" in every acre of forest just to block Trump's agenda.

Dunno what he's thinking some times.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
My first thought is why would the US (not only US lumber producers) benefit from increased prices on (softwood) framing lumber?

My next thought was in what form and amount are the alleged subsidies provided by the Canadian government? The article lists none yet does say that similar allegations in the past were said to be unfounded. It seems that any article/news report about subsidies should, at a minimum, define the form and amount of the alleged subsidies.
Click to expand...

It's about 'stumpage', the fee paid by logging companies to the government to cut on government land. American producers say the governments in Canada should charge more.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/france...-imports-will-hurt-america-most/#2789bbd22320

Unless there's idle sawmills in the US, or lumber going moldy in stacks in mill yards, all this will do is make Americans pay a tax. Remember, all taxes end up on price tags.
 
Bucky said:
Another victory for the Trump administration.

The Canadian government has been taking advantage of the U.S for too long.

Another step in helping America - our economy, especially Wisconsin. With Obama/Hillary, they preferred siding with Canadian interests over the interest of Wisconsin dairy farmers.

Trust me, Hillary does not care about the state of Wisconsin. If she did, she would have campaigned there.

Thank you President Trump for not backing down to that punk Trudeau.
Click to expand...

Lotsa idle sawmills in Wisconsin? Trees going uncut because of no market? Lumber rotting on the ground? 'Cause if not, Trump just made US consumers pay another tax on house construction, didn't he.
 
Grand Mal said:
Lotsa idle sawmills in Wisconsin? Trees going uncut because of no market? Lumber rotting on the ground? 'Cause if not, Trump just made US consumers pay another tax on house construction, didn't he.
Click to expand...

Give me a break. We are talking about a 20% tariff on lumber.

What about Canada's tariff against the United States?

299% on butter??
245% on parmesan???

The Trump administration is showing great pragmatism.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom