• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Today is Earth Day - Marches for Science worldwide

Science has a better record of a achieving than any other human endeavor.

Yep, but it also gave us nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and the industrial revolution's pollution which are not all positive achievements. ;)
 
Yep, but it also gave us nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and the industrial revolution's pollution which are not all positive achievements. ;)

Any science (knowledge) is a two edged sword. Its all in how you use it.
 
My biggest beef with the AGW "experts" are in their dire "predictions", specifically, that now sea level will rise by one meter by 2100 when just a few years earlier (2012?) it was going to rise by only half of that. That is a "woops" rate of 100% in just a few years.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...se-global-warming-federal-report-donald-trump

Kinda happens when the models aren't accurate. You can use them to make predictions, but those predictions come at the risk of having a large margin for error.
 
Kinda happens when the models aren't accurate. You can use them to make predictions, but those predictions come at the risk of having a large margin for error.

Coupled with a huge lead time (delayed reaction?) for any changes (positive or negative) made now - meaning that whatever is done (or not done) now will likely have no measurable effect in a generation.
 
YMFOgOS.jpg
 
So what; did someone tell you environmentalists don't have trash?

Don't you know? You can't be an environmentalist unless you are absolutely perfect in everything you do at all times.
 
Don't you know? You can't be an environmentalist unless you are absolutely perfect in everything you do at all times.

Skeptic Bob is true that you yourself are, in fact, made of carbon?
 
Yep, but it also gave us nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and the industrial revolution's pollution which are not all positive achievements. ;)

And we don't live in a bubble. Why not let Russia and China develop it fist...surely that wasn't the master plan ;)
 
And we don't live in a bubble. Why not let Russia and China develop it fist...surely that wasn't the master plan ;)

Hmm... so the US is going to let them skate on the cleanup costs while we go "green" (or dark)?
 
Hmm... so the US is going to let them skate on the cleanup costs while we go "green" (or dark)?

The point is that as long as we are ahead in the race, we at least have a better chance to dictate that, or any other outcome.
Losing the arms race in contrast, it may not have mattered if we wanted to go green or not, we wouldn't have the freedom to choose either way.

I think for practical purposes, they will let the U.S. and europe lead the way in green innovation, then they will adopt it once its costs are low enough...it's not like the information will be classified or hard to obtain, like nukes or stealth tech is. Although Russia being so reliant on oil for its economy, maybe they want to throw a wrench in the entire thing. They'd have to influence our election to get a rabid alt-right pro-coal type of candidate, good luck with that Russia.
 
The point is that as long as we are ahead in the race, we at least have a better chance to dictate that, or any other outcome.
Losing the arms race in contrast, it may not have mattered if we wanted to go green or not, we wouldn't have the freedom to choose either way.

I think for practical purposes, they will let the U.S. and europe lead the way in green innovation, then they will adopt it once its costs are low enough...it's not like the information will be classified or hard to obtain, like nukes or stealth tech is. Although Russia being so reliant on oil for its economy, maybe they want to throw a wrench in the entire thing. They'd have to influence our election to get a rabid alt-right pro-coal type of candidate, good luck with that Russia.

It is likely that China is to be the leading world solar profiteer and they tend not to care much about where the technology came from.

Despite the stiff tariffs from the U.S., including those imposed last year, China keeps rolling out more and more solar panels. In 2013, Chinese manufacturing enterprises made more than 70 percent of world’s solar modules, according to Hanergy Global Renewable Report 2014. But they’re no longer piling up in California ports.

https://psmag.com/why-millions-of-c...-california-warehouses-for-years-77a906065ed6
 
This Earth Day, Remember How Often Environmental Alarmists Are Wrong

Today is the 47th annual Earth Day. On this day, it is worth reflecting on how completely, totally wrong environmental alarmists often are. Few things tell us more about the environmental movement—where it’s been and, more importantly, where it is now—than its dismal track record in the predictive department.

Case in point: Paul Ehrlich, who is as close to a rock star as you’re apt to find among environmentalists. Ehrlich is most famous for his 1968 book “The Population Bomb,” in which he famously predicted that, during the 1970s and 1980s, humanity would suffer mass famine and starvation due to overpopulation. “At this late date,” Ehrlich wrote, “nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate.”

Spoiler alert: Ehrlich was wrong—so wrong, in fact, that not only did his doomsday predictions fail to materialize, but the exact opposite happened. Readers who were alive during the 1970s and 80s will recall that there was plenty to eat, there was no mass die-off, everything worked out fine, and humanity’s lot continued to improve as it had throughout the rest of the 20th century.

Ehrlich Is Still Making Incorrect Doomsday Predictions

This kind of humiliating embarrassment would be enough to cow even the proudest of men—unless that man is an environmentalist, of course. Incredibly, as NewsBuster’s Tim Graham pointed out this week, Ehrlich was still making his doomsday predictions in 1989—well after the point when it was clear his previous predictions had been utter failures. Ehrlich claimed that, during the 1990s, “We’re going to see massive extinction;” he theorized that rising ocean waters meant “we could expect to lose all of Florida, Washington D.C., and the Los Angeles basin.”

Another spoiler: none of this happened. I visited Florida several times in the 1990s; it was not underwater. I visited Los Angeles shortly after the turn of the century; it, too, was fully above ground. Washington D.C., alas, remains as un-inundated as ever.

For Paul Ehrlich, unfortunately, twice-humiliated does not mean twice- or even once-chastened. Just a few years ago he was predicting that human beings would have to resort to cannibalism to cope with the coming famine. He also claims that “The Population Bomb” was “much too optimistic;” this was a book, mind you, that predicted hundreds of millions of deaths that ended up not happening.

This Earth Day, Remember How Often Environmental Alarmists Are Wrong


A fool is a fool, they never learn.

They’ve never been right.
 
Where you at the March?

No, but my son was, and I told him I was proud of him. As I get older, I don't like crowds. I've participated in many Earthday celebrations and marches in the past. I've even spoken at some Earthday events.
 
The US a;ready had a toehold in the middle east and has had for many years

Removing saddam was a big mistake but I don't think we did it to keep all of iraq's oil for exxon and shell/bp.

OPEC was kicking the butt of the US economy, and that was the incentive for the PNAC, of which Wolfowicz and Cheney were key players. "All" - NO. More control - YES. PSAs, Production Sharing Agreements were put into place after the war. The US and Britain negotiated the deals. I disagree with you on the motives of the 2nd Iraq War.

PNAC statement from 2000 (Cheney was President):

This video clip describes Paul Wolfowitz's involvement in shaping the U.S. Neoconservative foreign policy implemented after the attacks of September 11, 2001, including his role in the creation of the PNAC document ”Rebuilding America's Defenses” during the year 2000 which suggested a need for a ”catastrophic and catalyzing event— like a new Pearl Harbor.”

Paul Wolfowitz - PNAC and the ?New Pearl Harbor? ? News of Interest.TV
 
OPEC was kicking the butt of the US economy, and that was the incentive for the PNAC, of which Wolfowicz and Cheney were key players. "All" - NO. More control - YES. PSAs, Production Sharing Agreements were put into place after the war. The US and Britain negotiated the deals. I disagree with you on the motives of the 2nd Iraq War.

PNAC statement from 2000 (Cheney was President):

This video clip describes Paul Wolfowitz's involvement in shaping the U.S. Neoconservative foreign policy implemented after the attacks of September 11, 2001, including his role in the creation of the PNAC document ”Rebuilding America's Defenses” during the year 2000 which suggested a need for a ”catastrophic and catalyzing event— like a new Pearl Harbor.”

Paul Wolfowitz - PNAC and the ?New Pearl Harbor? ? News of Interest.TV

Opec was no stronger then than it is now.

As of 2001 we had a president who was not anti oil and the prospects for oil producton in America were bright

All the US cares about is the free flow of oil on the world market to provide stability to the world economy

These leftwing conspiracy theory's coming from the leftwing are delusional
 
Opec was no stronger then than it is now.
Not true at all. Once the oil-find in the Dakotas was realized, OPEC's power over the US diminished dramatically.

As of 2001 we had a president who was not anti oil and the prospects for oil producton in America were bright
We had a VP who was CEO of Halliburton, with all the inherent Conflict of Interests. Their entire agenda was Middle-Eastern oil.

All the US cares about is the free flow of oil on the world market to provide stability to the world economy
Is that really "all the US cares about"? I guess that might be true for the Gas Overconsumption Party.

These leftwing conspiracy theory's coming from the leftwing are delusional
The existence of PNAC and the Wolfowicz and Cheney quotes are factual. I said nothing about a conspiracy. You're attempting to put words in my mouth. I merely said that the Neocon war agenda is clear from the quotes.
 
Not true at all.

Once the oil-find in the Dakotas was realized, OPEC's power over the US diminished dramatically.


We had a VP who was CEO of Halliburton, with all the inherent Conflict of Interests. Their entire agenda was Middle-Eastern oil.


Is that really "all the US cares about"? I guess that might be true for the Gas Overconsumption Party.


The existence of PNAC and the Wolfowicz and Cheney quotes are factual. I said nothing about a conspiracy. You're attempting to put words in my mouth. I merely said that the Neocon war agenda is clear from the quotes.

You seriously understimate the oil industry.

They didn't just stumble on to all the oil they are sitting on

And they never accepted to defeast attitude of the Peak Oil wackos who were convinced in 1973 that there was no more oil left
 
No, but my son was, and I told him I was proud of him. As I get older, I don't like crowds. I've participated in many Earthday celebrations and marches in the past. I've even spoken at some Earthday events.

Well, from my exp, you're a bit of an exception. I used to do the rallies, both for earth day, politics, relays for life, etc. I stopped, because I found that most of the folks there weren't very sincere. Outside of the ones that require donations, I found them to be perfectly pointless.
 

[h=1]Craziest activist photos from the #marchforscience #sciencemarchdc[/h]Their true colors shine brightly: This Earth Day, April 22, Earth Day Network and the March for Science are co-organizing a rally and teach-in on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. The day’s program will include speeches and trainings with scientists and civic organizers, musical performances, and a march through the streets of Washington, D.C.…


 
[h=1]Why I decided not to take Kenji to the DC ‘March for Science’[/h]From the refund is due to his supporters department… Back on January 30th I posted this: Help send Kenji to the “Scientists March on Washington” event! From the “all’s fair in love, war, and climate science” department comes this opportunity. On Facebook, Dr. Roy Spencer made a comment related to a post on the original website…

3 days ago April 21, 2017 in Climate News.

Shucks! With Kenji not going, what am I supposed to tell the Chihuahua who had his heart set on attending the Scientists March on Washington with Kenji? :lamo

Some of the comments were hilarious, BTW! Thanks! :kissy: I needed to laugh after recovering from my hospital stay as a result of food poisoning last week! Who knew that luncheon meetings could be harmful to one's health? I do now! :thumbdown:
 
Well, from my exp, you're a bit of an exception. I used to do the rallies, both for earth day, politics, relays for life, etc. I stopped, because I found that most of the folks there weren't very sincere. Outside of the ones that require donations, I found them to be perfectly pointless.

I think you're ignoring the comradery aspect, which I've always found quite intense. I think you also ignore the entire Conservation aspect, which is one trait that I found almost universally accepted from Earth Day participants.

When the Bush/Cheney duo first took office, they made a forecast of all these additional power plants that were going to be needed in the next few years. At least one power company, and probably more, went bankrupt by over-investing. Turns out that it was totally bogus, in large part due to conservation - shifts to CF and LED lighting, Energy Star appliances, etc.
 
Back
Top Bottom