A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happened.

Mac77 · Apr 21, 2017

The WaPo account of this is totally slanted against ICE

It starts out giving the illegal alien ("Dreamer") version of what happened as if it were a fact which it is not.

Read the link if you want the illegal aliens version of the deportation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...st-time-advocates-say/?utm_term=.748a5fbe872d

The Department of Homeland Security disputes these claims and says the government has no record of detaining Montes on Feb. 17 and then deporting him hours later. It didn’t happen, they say.

The gist is that the alien was caught reentering the US from Mexico on Feb 19 and deported on the spot because being a Dreamer does not allow aliens to come and go as they please.

Now he is stuck in Mexico and having to sue to try and get back in again

Enbeded in the first Dreamer sob story is a second tug at our heart strings about another Dreamer who allowed her dream status to expire and now is being deported along with her illegal alien father and brother

"ICE nabs young ‘dreamer’ applicant after she speaks out at a news conference"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-conference/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.7566821780a1

I'm so happy that trump won the election and is in the white house instead of hillary

americanwoman · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
The WaPo account of this is totally slanted against ICE

It starts out giving the illegal alien ("Dreamer") version of what happened as if it were a fact which it is not.

Read the link if you want the illegal aliens version of the deportation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...st-time-advocates-say/?utm_term=.748a5fbe872d

The gist is that the alien was caught reentering the US from Mexico on Feb 19 and deported on the spot because being a Dreamer does not allow aliens to come and go as they please.

Now he is stuck in Mexico and having to sue to try and get back in again

Enbeded in the first Dreamer sob story is a second tug at our heart strings about another Dreamer who allowed her dream status to expire and now is being deported along with her illegal alien father and brother

"ICE nabs young ‘dreamer’ applicant after she speaks out at a news conference"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-conference/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.7566821780a1

I'm so happy that trump won the election and is in the white house instead of hillary

Yes, this Trump, per your source:

Trump called the program “one of the most difficult subjects I have” and pledged to “show great heart” toward those enrolled in DACA, The Washington Post reported.

Seems like Trump supports DACA aka "Dreamers", just like me.

Mac77 · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
Yes, this Trump, per your source:

Seems like Trump supports DACA aka "Dreamers", just like me.

I would not support DACA if it were up to me.

But neither do I expect to deport all 20 million illegal aliens living in the US.

Some illegals includng DACA's will be allowed to stay

but they do not deserve citizenship or the the right to vote - ever

And for every illegal alien who is given a green card a visa applicant from that home country should be denied

ttwtt78640 · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
Yes, this Trump, per your source:

Seems like Trump supports DACA aka "Dreamers", just like me.

Trump is simply a fool that thinks DACA and DAPA EOs are OK (for now?) - the "good hombres" can stay so long as they do not violate any other law ever. Trump treats these DACA and DAPA "special" illegal aliens as if they were on probation (for life?) which subjects them to as much, if not more, pressure to STFU about being exploited. I have some repect for the DACA idea but absolutely none for the DAPA concept at all. These DAPA folks claim to "special" immigration status is that they not only entered (or remained) illegally but have created at least one "anchor baby", they are simply line jumpers that consider themselves better (more clever?) than their fellow countrymen.

americanwoman · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
I would not support DACA if it were up to me.

But neither do I expect to deport all 20 million illegal aliens living in the US.

Some illegals includng DACA's will be allowed to stay

but they do not deserve citizenship or the the right to vote - ever

And for every illegal alien who is given a green card a visa applicant from that home country should be denied

I disagree. I think DACA should be a path to citizenship, especially if they serve in the military.

Fishking · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
I disagree. I think DACA should be a path to citizenship, especially if they serve in the military.

Military service is it's own criteria. Outside of that, citizenship shouldn't be granted to anyone so long as we haven't secured our border to stop the flow. Once that happens, then we can start looking at who can stay and be granted full citizenship. That's kinda where I sit.

americanwoman · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

ttwtt78640 said:
Trump is simply a fool that thinks DACA and DAPA EOs are OK (for now?) - the "good hombres" can stay so long as they do not violate any other law ever. Trump treats these DACA and DAPA "special" illegal aliens as if they were on probation (for life?) which subjects them to as much, if not more, pressure to STFU about being exploited. I have some repect for the DACA idea but absolutely none for the DAPA concept at all. These DAPA folks claim to "special" immigration status is that they not only entered (or remained) illegally but have created at least one "anchor baby", they are simply line jumpers that consider themselves better (more clever?) than their fellow countrymen.

Yes, with DAPA it becomes more complicated. To make it not so complicated moving forward, we really need to update our laws regarding anchor babies.

Bodi · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
The WaPo account of this is totally slanted against ICE

It starts out giving the illegal alien ("Dreamer") version of what happened as if it were a fact which it is not.

Read the link if you want the illegal aliens version of the deportation

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...st-time-advocates-say/?utm_term=.748a5fbe872d

The gist is that the alien was caught reentering the US from Mexico on Feb 19 and deported on the spot because being a Dreamer does not allow aliens to come and go as they please.

Now he is stuck in Mexico and having to sue to try and get back in again

Enbeded in the first Dreamer sob story is a second tug at our heart strings about another Dreamer who allowed her dream status to expire and now is being deported along with her illegal alien father and brother

"ICE nabs young ‘dreamer’ applicant after she speaks out at a news conference"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-conference/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.7566821780a1

I'm so happy that trump won the election and is in the white house instead of hillary

So she is here illegally... given DACA status but lets that expire ?? Then complains about possibly getting deported? She sounds like an idiot.

reinoe · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Bodhisattva said:
So she is here illegally... given DACA status but lets that expire ?? Then complains about possibly getting deported? She sounds like an idiot.

The illegal immigrants have picked up the SJW sense of entitlement.

americanwoman · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Fishking said:
Military service is it's own criteria. Outside of that, citizenship shouldn't be granted to anyone so long as we haven't secured our border to stop the flow. Once that happens, then we can start looking at who can stay and be granted full citizenship. That's kinda where I sit.

I think that's a fair enough compromise. We can't just go and deport everyone nor can we just grant amnesty but we have to come to middle ground like this and then move forward and actually enforce the laws we already have.

ttwtt78640 · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
Yes, with DAPA it becomes more complicated. To make it not so complicated moving forward, we really need to update our laws regarding anchor babies.

There was never any intent for the 14A to be extended to border jumpers, tourists, diplomats, students or "guest workers" that are citizens of another country. It was intended to address US born slaves that had no prior status as people (they were considered property) much less citizens of any nation.

Bodi · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

reinoe said:
The illegal immigrants have picked up the SJW sense of entitlement.

I would argue it is almost the other way around...

Mac77 · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
I disagree. I think DACA should be a path to citizenship, especially if they serve in the military.

I might make an exception for dreamers who serve honorably but no one else

For the rest, allowed to stay but no citizenship

Because if you make them citizerns then they can sponsor the illegal alien parernts who brought them into the country illegally and make mom and dad and all their cousins and grandparents in Mexico eligible for immigration also.

That is entirely too much of a reward for breaking our laws.

EMNofSeattle · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
I disagree. I think DACA should be a path to citizenship, especially if they serve in the military.

It is illegal to enlist in the military as an illegal alien, if you are not a citizen, national, or permanent resident alien you cannot enlist unless you lie about having one of those statuses, if you are caught while in the service after lying about it you can be courtmartialed for fraudulent enlistment and discharged.

EMNofSeattle · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
I might make an exception for dreamers who serve honorably but no one else

For the rest, allowed to stay but no citizenship

Because if you make them citizerns then they can sponsor the illegal alien parernts who brought them into the country illegally and make mom and dad and all their cousins and grandparents in Mexico eligible for immigration also.

That is entirely too much of a reward for breaking our laws.

you cannot serve "honorably" as a dreamer, without a green card or US nationality you are committing a federal crime by enlisting in the military

Article 83 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice

Text.

“Any person who—

(1) procures his own enlistment or appointment in the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his qualifications for that enlistment or appointment and receives pay or allowances thereunder; or

(2) procures his own separation from the armed forces by knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment as to his eligibility for that separation;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) Fraudulent enlistment or appointment.

(a) That the accused was enlisted or appointed in an armed force;
(b) That the accused knowingly misrepresented or deliberately concealed a certain material fact or facts regarding qualifications of the accused for enlistment or appointment;

(c) That the accused’s enlistment or appointment was obtained or procured by that knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment; and

(d) That under this enlistment or appointment that accused received pay or allowances or both.

(2) Fraudulent separation.

(a) That the accused was separated from an armed force;
(b) That the accused knowingly misrepresented or deliberately concealed a certain material fact or facts about the accused’s eligibility for separation; and

(c) That the accused’s separation was obtained or procured by that knowingly false representation or deliberate concealment.

Explanation.

(1) In general. A fraudulent enlistment, appointment, or separation is one procured by either a knowingly false representation as to any of the qualifications prescribed by law, regulation, or orders for the specific enlistment, appointment, or separation, or a deliberate concealment as to any of those disqualifications.

Matters that may be material to an enlistment, appointment, or separation include any information used by the recruiting, appointing, or separating officer in reaching a decision as to enlistment, appointment, or separation in any particular case, and any information that normally would have been so considered had it been provided to that officer.

(2) Receipt of pay or allowances. A member of the armed forces who enlists or accepts an appointment without being regularly separated from a prior enlistment or appointment should be charged under Article 83 only if that member has received pay or allowances under the fraudulent enlistment or ap pointment. Acceptance of food, clothing, shelter, or transportation from the government constitutes receipt of allowances. However, whatever is furnished the accused while in custody, confinement, arrest, or other restraint pending trial for fraudulent enlistment or appointment is not considered an allowance. The receipt of pay or allowances may be proved by circumstantial evidence.

(3) One offense. One who procures one’s own enlistment, appointment, or separation by several misrepresentations or concealment as to qualifications for the one enlistment, appointment, or separation so procured, commits only one offense under Article 83.

Lesser included offense . Article 80—attempts

Maximum punishment.

(1) Fraudulent enlistment or appointment. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

(2) Fraudulent separation. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

An article by an immigration attorney on Avvo

Can DACA youth enlist?

Currently, no. In 2012, the Obama administration launched a program called Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals that gives limited immigration benefits to individuals who entered the U.S. as children.

Although individuals in the DACA program are authorized to work, they cannot join the military. There may be exceptions under the MAVNI program in the future, but not currently.
..................................................................

................................................

Immigrants in the U.S. military: 8 rules on non-citizen service

Master PO · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

ttwtt78640 said:
There was never any intent for the 14A to be extended to border jumpers, tourists, diplomats, students or "guest workers" that are citizens of another country. It was intended to address US born slaves that had no prior status as people (they were considered property) much less citizens of any nation.

the 14th made former slaves u.s. subjects [u.s. citizens] of the federal government, all other people are state Citizens and are not subject to the federal government at that time in history, the 20th century change that to include every American

Mac77 · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

EMNofSeattle said:
you cannot serve "honorably" as a dreamer, without a green card or US nationality you are committing a federal crime by enlisting in the military

Article 83 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice

An article by an immigration attorney on Avvo

If they are a dreamer they have a green card and can enlist legally in the military

americanwoman · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

EMNofSeattle said:
It is illegal to enlist in the military as an illegal alien, if you are not a citizen, national, or permanent resident alien you cannot enlist unless you lie about having one of those statuses, if you are caught while in the service after lying about it you can be courtmartialed for fraudulent enlistment and discharged.

Actually people who have DACA status can try and join the military.

https://citizenpath.com/mavni-program/

MAVNI Open to DACA Recipients
Individuals who have been granted deferred action by the Department of Homeland Security pursuant to the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) process are eligible for consideration. Generally the MAVNI requirements stipulate a legal immigration status. However, the military service may on a case by case basis waive the requirement that the foreign national be in a status described above.

BillRM · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
I would not support DACA if it were up to me.

But neither do I expect to deport all 20 million illegal aliens living in the US.

Some illegals includng DACA's will be allowed to stay

but they do not deserve citizenship or the the right to vote - ever

And for every illegal alien who is given a green card a visa applicant from that home country should be denied

So let me get this straight a person who was brought over here as a young child and raised as an American should never be allow to become a US citizen due to the 'crimes' of her or his parents?

To me such children are as american as anyone else and should enjoy the same rights as anyone else.

You do not punish a child for the crimes/misdeeds of a parent and we have a long long history of being better off then other nations by welcoming such people instead of setting up an underclass.

footnote some of our foundering fathers was not born in the US such as Hamilton, the former head of the USSR who once stated that the USSR would bury us son is now a US citizen and is working as a professor.

Einstein became a US citizen and wrote the letter to Roosevelt that started our nuclear weapon program so we got the bomb not Germany even those he was born a German citizen.

EMNofSeattle · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Mac77 said:
If they are a dreamer they have a green card and can enlist legally in the military

No they cannot. DACA is not a "green card"

https://immigrationidaho.com/deferred-action-green-card-options/

Deferred action does not give you a direct path to a green card.

That’s right. Deferred action gets you a work card and an understanding that you won’t be deported for two years. It does not give you legal status. It does not fix a prior unlawful entry. It is not a green card and does not give you a direct path to either a green card or citizenship. Deferred action green card options will basically be the same ones that you had before you received deferred action. Even if you are married to a United States citizen, deferred action alone does not give you a path to a green card.

If anyone trys to tell you that they can get you a green card based on your deferred action, please do not listen to them. They simply aren’t telling you the truth. No matter how much money you pay them, they can’t magically turn your deferred action work card into a green card.

From the US Government's DACA website

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/consideration-deferred-action-childhood-arrivals-daca#scams

What Is DACA

On June 15, 2012, the Secretary of Homeland Security announced that certain people who came to the United States as children and meet several guidelines may request consideration of deferred action for a period of two years, subject to renewal. They are also eligible for work authorization. Deferred action is a use of prosecutorial discretion to defer removal action against an individual for a certain period of time. Deferred action does not provide lawful status.

EMNofSeattle · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

americanwoman said:
Actually people who have DACA status can try and join the military.

https://citizenpath.com/mavni-program/

MANVI is a specific program for medical and language professionals. It is not a general program to allow enlistments for status.

MANVI is a program that grants a green card to those professionals to directly join the service, much like an H1B Visa. so MANVI applicants are not enlisting without status, they are granted status to join and the program is extremely limited. It also shows what I said, DACA does not grant status in the country.

Exactice · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

BillRM said:
So let me get this straight a person who was brought over here as a young child and raised as an American should never be allow to become a US citizen due to the 'crimes' of her or his parents?

To me such children are as american as anyone else and should enjoy the same rights as anyone else.

You do not punish a child for the crimes/misdeeds of a parent and we have a long long history of being better off then other nations by welcoming such people instead of setting up an underclass.

Sorry not singling you specific but your point. It came up on a news story.....

Should the Child be punished for the actions of the Adult.

Well first and for most, lets clarify. Sure at the time the child was brought in illegally, the child had NO choice. That is correct. Part 2 is, when the child is old enough to realize the situation they are in. They "could" have a chance to solidify their status. what I mean is, what if the child while raised in American is taught their original heritage and chooses to "Go back" to their country this is their choice right? Not the parents choice.

That being said if they child wants to come back to be with their parents (that are here illegally anyways) The child themselves now have to make a choice to declare their status. By going through the PROPER functions of immigration. ONE of which the PARENTS chose NOT to follow. SO in what way is on the American People that ARE citizens having to supplement and "enable" both parent and child to stay illegally. The parents made the choice and took their child with them. This is the RISK they chose.

No different then taking your child on a trip, on an Airplane. and the plane crashes. The child had no choice.....

Rules are set forth. If you choose to ignore them and more sore, IGNORANCE of the law does not excuse you of it.

My wife legally immigrated here. I went through all the loops hoops and USCIS paper works, I did all things legal. What did I have to do it. If others are given the pathway for being illegal. Devalues the WHOLE system in place. Devalues, Laws, enforcement, System and the "AMERICAN DREAM" that these people speak of. The American Dream is to "Immigrate" to America not ILLEGALLY Immigrate...

Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs - NumbersUSA.com - YouTube

This should help put things in perspective.

BillRM · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Exactice said:
Sorry not singling you specific but your point. It came up on a news story.....

Should the Child be punished for the actions of the Adult.

Well first and for most, lets clarify. Sure at the time the child was brought in illegally, the child had NO choice. That is correct. Part 2 is, when the child is old enough to realize the situation they are in. They "could" have a chance to solidify their status. what I mean is, what if the child while raised in American is taught their original heritage and chooses to "Go back" to their country this is their choice right? Not the parents choice.

That being said if they child wants to come back to be with their parents (that are here illegally anyways) The child themselves now have to make a choice to declare their status. By going through the PROPER functions of immigration. ONE of which the PARENTS chose NOT to follow. SO in what way is on the American People that ARE citizens having to supplement and "enable" both parent and child to stay illegally. The parents made the choice and took their child with them. This is the RISK they chose.

No different then taking your child on a trip, on an Airplane. and the plane crashes. The child had no choice.....

Rules are set forth. If you choose to ignore them and more sore, IGNORANCE of the law does not excuse you of it.

My wife legally immigrated here. I went through all the loops hoops and USCIS paper works, I did all things legal. What did I have to do it. If others are given the pathway for being illegal. Devalues the WHOLE system in place. Devalues, Laws, enforcement, System and the "AMERICAN DREAM" that these people speak of. The American Dream is to "Immigrate" to America not ILLEGALLY Immigrate...

Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs - NumbersUSA.com - YouTube

This should help put things in perspective.

Sorry but we as a nation and as a people gain nothing at all by forcing men and women who from childhood was raised here as Americans and consider themselves Americans to leave and go to what to them is a foreign land.

Exactice · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

BillRM said:
Sorry but we as a nation and as a people gain nothing at all by forcing men and women who from childhood was raised here as Americans and consider themselves Americans to leave and go to what to them is a foreign land.

Do you see how your statement though is "Enabling" The American Dream as I have known it was,.... "Given the opportunities to immigrate to American, Work hard and obtain all the freedoms that you earned through your work ethics and contributions to the USA"

The above thoughts, say, if a parent wants to provide a better life for the child escape illegally, and because they are a child, they will gain sympathy and status and then Citizenship. Never mind the ADULTS that apply legally and work their way through the systems..... Its easier to bring a child in because it hits the hearts and minds.

Again this enables and devalues the system completely. Now do the realistic math.... who pays for public funding for these "Illegal" Children, from health care to schooling in which they are protected. Again we can talk about hearts and minds, but we also need to talk about reality.

You know like the commercials , donate $.30 a day to feed the hungry in Africa. Are we really... seriously putting a dent into world hunger? with $.30 a day?

Again.... what about the ADULTS...that legally apply every single year. for a Visa, and then apply for their green cards and then contribute to the nation through fair taxes and work ethics.

Not just a family that came in illegally and used public assistance.

Again look at the enabling factor... is it not easier to bring a child in illegally hear and then cry about being separated..... where does the law put the foot down, that means every one can use this excuse circumventing the system... because its child.

BillRM · Apr 21, 2017

Re: A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happe

Sorry but doing a great injustice to those who was raised here and consider themselves Americans is not justify due to the concerns of not devaluing the so call system.

The so call system had allowed employers of companies up to the sized of Walmart to employed illegal labor indirectly without any punishment to them.

I have no problem with fining the **** out of employers who employed such labor and drying up the demand for so call illegal workers but that in no way mean that I support harming what is in every way but the strictly legal way my fellow Americans.

They was raised here and both I and they consider themselves Americans be damn the paperwork.

A ‘dreamer’ claims he was secretly deported. The government claims it never happened.

Mac77

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EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable

Master PO

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