Stockholm truck attack leaves two dead and many injured

SouthernDemocrat said:

Of course it was. It was commonly spread by violence. No reasonable person would argue that Christianity in its history, particularly through the Middle Ages was any less violent than Islam. The difference is that Christianity went through various reformations and the enlightenment, and thus today regularly conforms to civil society, and outside of a few small cults in Sub Saharan Africa, doesn't convert through the sword. Islam hasn't gone through large scale reformations, much less any real enlightenment, and that is why you literally have hundreds of millions of Muslims today, in 2017, that subscribe to a faith that is every bit as radical and violent as it was 1200 years ago.

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See post #48.

Fishking said:

In the beginning? No. After it was co-opted by the Roman Empire? Yes. Jesus didn't ride around with an army killing people and converting them. He was a pacifist to the point of death and so were his followers. Mohammed, on the other hand...well, he got his army and used it.

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Jesus was also never the leader of an empire. Name me one pacifist empire in history.

Fishking said:

In the beginning? No. After it was co-opted by the Roman Empire? Yes. Jesus didn't ride around with an army killing people and converting them. He was a pacifist to the point of death and so were his followers. Mohammed, on the other hand...well, he got his army and used it.

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The vast, vast majority of the spread of Christianity was not in the beginning, it was after the Roman Empire and then later the Holy Roman Empire adopted it. For its first 1000 years, Christianity was every bit as violent as Islam was. The difference is that Christianity went through reformations and the enlightenment, while Islam did not. Hell the Old Testament is basically a collection of war crimes, genocide, and various crimes against humanity.

Carjosse said:

Jesus was also never the leader of an empire. Name me one pacifist empire in history.

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Neither was Mohammed. He created his own, by the sword. As far as Jesus, He specifically stayed out of politics. The Jews of the time were looking for someone to start some stuff against Rome and He declined.

"Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's."

SouthernDemocrat said:

The vast, vast majority of the spread of Christianity was not in the beginning, it was after the Roman Empire and then later the Holy Roman Empire adopted it. For its first 1000 years, Christianity was every bit as violent as Islam was. The difference is that Christianity went through reformations and the enlightenment, while Islam did not. Hell the Old Testament is basically a collection of war crimes, genocide, and various crimes against humanity.

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Christianity witnessed a huge spread before the Roman Empire adopted it. How do you think it even got to that point? For about 300 years it spread rapidly without armies and force. It could be said that Rome, and Constantine was the corrupting influence on Christianity, not the other way around.

Again, you cannot say the same of Islam and Mohammad.

Fishking said:

Neither was Mohammed. He created his own, by the sword. As far as Jesus, He specifically stayed out of politics. The Jews of the time were looking for someone to start some stuff against Rome and He declined.

"Render unto Cesar what is Cesar's."

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He was a leader of an empire from the very beginning, quite a good one, good administrator and general. So were many of his successors. At the time Islam was rather progressive.

Carjosse said:

He was a leader of an empire from the very beginning, quite a good one, good administrator and general. So were many of his successors. At the time Islam was rather progressive.

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Lol...no, he wasn't. He was run out of his own home town for supporting monotheism. He eventually got enough followers to fight and he commenced war and grew. You have a strange recollection of history.

Fishking said:

Lol...no, he wasn't. He was run out of his own home town for supporting monotheism. He eventually got enough followers to fight and he commenced war and grew. You have a strange recollection of history.

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He had followers relying on him to be a political leader from pretty much the beginning, it wasn't just him kicked out.

Fishking said:

Christianity witnessed a huge spread before the Roman Empire adopted it. How do you think it even got to that point? For about 300 years it spread rapidly without armies and force. It could be said that Rome, and Constantine was the corrupting influence on Christianity, not the other way around.

Again, you cannot say the same of Islam and Mohammad.

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Because they started at different times and under different circumstances. At the time of Mohammad, Christianity was every bit as violent as Islam. The only time early on that Christianity was not violent was when it was under the heavy thumb of the Roman Empire. Had Christianity tried to spread like Islam did early in it's days, the Romans would have simply slaughtered every one of them. However, once Christianity had in its ranks kings, queens, and emperors, it was every bit as violent and remained so until it was reformed and then later went through the enlightenment.

The difference between Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is not that the Bible is a book of peace while the Koran is a book of violence. If Moses were alive today we would regard him as man as evil as Hitler or Stalin because of his genocidal actions. Hell at one point he was angry with his soldiers that they had spared women and children and he ordered them to slaughter all women and children and to only spare little virgin girls who they were to take and rape as spoils of war. Muhammad was practically Gandhi compared to him. You can find religious justifications for the most evil and vile actions imaginable in both the Bible and the Koran. You can also in both holy books find versus on peace, kindness, love, and charity. The difference is that Christianity and Judaism are reformed and enlightened, thus virtually all Christians today are cafeteria Christians in that they take the good from the Bible and ignore the vile and evil. In contrast, Islam never went through a large scale reformation. It never went through the enlightenment and thus has many adherents that are true fundamentalists to the original texts.

Carjosse said:

He had followers relying on him to be a political leader from pretty much the beginning, it wasn't just him kicked out.

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He has some small amount of followers, yes, but not enough at the time to not be kicked out. It was a tribal region, with many factions. You statement that he had an empire on hand is what is utterly false. There was no empire.

Fishking said:

He has some small amount of followers, yes, but not enough at the time to not be kicked out. It was a tribal region, with many factions. You statement that he had an empire on hand is what is utterly false. There was no empire.

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Yet. But he was a leader.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Because they started at different times and under different circumstances. At the time of Mohammad, Christianity was every bit as violent as Islam.

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Again, you're not comparing the same parts of the timeline, which was 600 years after the founding of Christianity. By that point, Christianity had already been co-opted by the Roman Empire.

The only time early on that Christianity was not violent was when it was under the heavy thumb of the Roman Empire. Had Christianity tried to spread like Islam did early in it's days, the Romans would have simply slaughtered every one of them. However, once Christianity had in its ranks kings, queens, and emperors, it was every bit as violent and remained so until it was reformed and then later went through the enlightenment.

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You spelled "the only time that Christianity was not violent was before the Roman Empire decreed it to be the state religion" wrong and Christianity was already 300 years old at the time. That's a long damn time. So you had a violent and dominant empire and a passive religion. The empire takes over the religion so who is responsible for what?

Carjosse said:

Yet. But he was a leader.

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Well, obviously he became a leader. That's kinda how he gathered followers and was able to kill everyone else who disagreed with him. However, there was no empire and his little group started out small and was driven out of town.

The place of worship of modern day Islam, the Kaaba, was the house that used to keep all the idols of the surrounding area.

Four dead, and they arrested someone. He stole a beer truck and did this. No names yet.

Police said they had arrested one person in a northern Stockholm suburb after earlier circulating a picture of a man wearing a grey hoodie in connection with the investigation into the attack on Drottninggatan (Queen Street) using a hijacked beer truck.

4 dead in apparent Swedish terrorist attack; 1 arrest made

Bergslagstroll said:

Right now it can be hard but necessary to remember that radical Islam is a small threat to humanity. That in nonviolence you have many vastly bigger dangers like for example car accidents and air pollution.

Also, then it comes to violent deaths terrorist and terrorist organization comes far down the list. That a lot more people in the western world have been killed from domestic violence. Also, globally the deaths for Islamic terrorist attacks are they lower than for example the Congo war and the Rwanda genocide.

That the power Islamic terrorist has is the fear and division they create by horrendous attacks against civilian. There that fear become even greater because they conduct attacks in western countries accustomed to peace and security.

Also, blaming all Muslims for those terrorist attacks does not only benefit Islamic terrorist that want to create division in our society but also far right fanatics and terrorist. That we in the Nordic countries have also have horrendous terrorist attacks done by far right extremists. Like for example Anders Breivik that killed almost 80 people and the attack on a Swedish school that left three innocent people dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollhättan_school_attack

That at the same time you are fighting and prevent Islamic terrorist you must remember that their goal is to create fear, hatred and division just like any other terrorists. Also of course it can be hard to think rational about terrorist attacks then like today a peaceful shopping street is turned into death and terror by a very sick individual. That you get so sad and angry.

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How silly.

Calling it sheer stupidity would be an understatement of massive proportions. It's like some of the Swedish moron politicians yesterday claiming you fight this evil with "love". So idiotic. No... you kill them into submission. But first, you don't let them enter civilized society, but for Europe, that's too late now. The foxes are in the hen house. THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL.

Castro was once a small threat to humanity.

Hitler was a small threat to humanity at one time.

Lenin & Marx and their idiocy was a small threat to society.

These morons you call a small threat have been wreaking havoc for hundreds of years. We've beaten them back every time. You know... we took their sickness on and suppressed it through war. We know their sickness and their goals. Their threat is not small... and now they have modern weapons at their disposal... Trucks, bombs, drones with bombs, machine guns, plus all the old school stuff like rape, machetes and clubs.

Islam... a sick segment of their religion has been at war with the modern, civilized west for a decades. They're using every means possible to kill, maim and disrupt civilized society.

It's no small threat. One only has to know their history and their version of Mein Kampf.

I wonder... what would these sick idiots do with sarin gas, anthrax, or nukes. No... there is no need to wonder, because these peace loving people... they're a small threat (facepalm).

tres borrachos said:

Four dead, and they arrested someone. He stole a beer truck and did this. No names yet.

Police said they had arrested one person in a northern Stockholm suburb after earlier circulating a picture of a man wearing a grey hoodie in connection with the investigation into the attack on Drottninggatan (Queen Street) using a hijacked beer truck.

4 dead in apparent Swedish terrorist attack; 1 arrest made

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tres borrachos said:

From: Parliament: Armed man 'shot dead by police after 'driving into pedestrians

Your posts in here disgust me. Start a new thread and leave this one to the people who actually care that innocent people died. This doesn't have anything to do with the Democrats, San Bernardino, Orlando, or Donald Trump.*

Get back to the topic that's being discussed, which is the innocent lives lost in London.

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That was a little more than 2-weeks ago. 2-weeks. Berlin... 3.5 months. Paris...

Tell me... does this have anything to do with the spate of murders committed in the name of Islam? Any relationship? Instead of finding my posts disgusting... because they address root causes and their consequences, are you not disgusted by the perpetrators, and those blind as bat politicians who allowed the continents be flooded by said perpetrators? Yes? No?

A wee bit odd considering western civilization had quite the wake-up call on 9-11-01... or?

Can you tell us when it's OK to comment on the murders and the root cause, the idiocy of letting known unknown knowns into said countries?

There was one in 2010 too.
Stockholm Drottninggatan shopping district at centre of 'terror attack' targeted by two blasts in 2010 - Mirror Online

How quickly people forget... like these journalists
Sweden's first major terror incident: Rampaging truck and gunfire spread chaos in central Stockholm

Nope... not first major incident.

Sweden's first major terror incident: Rampaging truck and gunfire spread chaos in central Stockholm - Business Insider Nordic


*PS... you're right... it doesn't have anything to do with Trump... it has to do with Demokrats and especially the moronic... threat to American security and prosperity president we had for 8-years... Barack Hussein Obama.

SouthernDemocrat said:

Stockholm truck attack leaves two dead and many injured - CNN.com

Personally, I think people need to start blaming Islam for this crap. If there was ever a religion in serious need of reform. What the hell has Sweden ever done to any of them - other than take in a million of them and give them housing, healthcare, and education?

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I wonder, if these things will become a regular occurrence. Interestingly the changes taking place are introducing quite sensible innovations that had earlier been criticized as American.

zimmer said:

That was a little more than 2-weeks ago. 2-weeks. Berlin... 3.5 months. Paris...

Tell me... does this have anything to do with the spate of murders committed in the name of Islam? Any relationship? Instead of finding my posts disgusting... because they address root causes and their consequences, are you not disgusted by the perpetrators, and those blind as bat politicians who allowed the continents be flooded by said perpetrators? Yes? No?

A wee bit odd considering western civilization had quite the wake-up call on 9-11-01... or?

Can you tell us when it's OK to comment on the murders and the root cause, the idiocy of letting known unknown knowns into said countries?

There was one in 2010 too.
Stockholm Drottninggatan shopping district at centre of 'terror attack' targeted by two blasts in 2010 - Mirror Online

How quickly people forget... like these journalists
Sweden's first major terror incident: Rampaging truck and gunfire spread chaos in central Stockholm

Nope... not first major incident.

Sweden's first major terror incident: Rampaging truck and gunfire spread chaos in central Stockholm - Business Insider Nordic


*PS... you're right... it doesn't have anything to do with Trump... it has to do with Demokrats and especially the moronic... threat to American security and prosperity president we had for 8-years... Barack Hussein Obama.

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What was 2 weeks ago? The attack in Sweden was a couple of days ago. Are you confused?

The Parliament attacker was a British-born son of British Christians. No idea why you brought my post about that into this thread. I didn't mention Donald Trump in this thread.

I have no idea if the attack in Sweden has to do with Islam. Not sure why you're asking me. The attacker was born in Uzbekistan. I'll wait until the police release more information on him and the bodies are buried before discussing Islam. I'm talking about this attack with a truck and the innocent lives lost.

TheGoverness said:

Trump predicted the future!

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So did I, right here on Debate Politics in fact. One of my first posts was in response to a woman who told me that I shouldn't rush to judgement just because another attack happened. I told her to expect many more attacks in Europe and the US.

tres borrachos said:

What was 2 weeks ago? The attack in Sweden was a couple of days ago. Are you confused?

The Parliament attacker was a British-born son of British Christians. No idea why you brought my post about that into this thread. I didn't mention Donald Trump in this thread.

I have no idea if the attack in Sweden has to do with Islam. Not sure why you're asking me. The attacker was born in Uzbekistan. I'll wait until the police release more information on him and the bodies are buried before discussing Islam. I'm talking about this attack with a truck and the innocent lives lost.

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I think the name you're having trouble finding is Khalid Masood, and he was a Muslim convert, like so many terrorists these days. His mother was white, dad was black, and apparently Masood was described as being racist and highly devoted to Islam.

Oh look..Muhammed had a popper in the truck with him.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inde...nhunt-latest-suspect-police-a7673527.html?amp

Carjosse said:

Except most of the radical interpretation of Islam have spawned in the last 100 years, mainly backed and funded by Saudi Arabia. The US is allied to the broker of Islamic terrorism and extremism. We should not be pretending that all Muslims are the same, we should be pushing for the elimination of radical Islam.

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radical Islam???

The words Obama couldn't bring himself to utter

zimmer said:

How silly.

Calling it sheer stupidity would be an understatement of massive proportions. It's like some of the Swedish moron politicians yesterday claiming you fight this evil with "love". So idiotic. No... you kill them into submission. But first, you don't let them enter civilized society, but for Europe, that's too late now. The foxes are in the hen house. THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL.

Castro was once a small threat to humanity.

Hitler was a small threat to humanity at one time.

Lenin & Marx and their idiocy was a small threat to society.

These morons you call a small threat have been wreaking havoc for hundreds of years. We've beaten them back every time. You know... we took their sickness on and suppressed it through war. We know their sickness and their goals. Their threat is not small... and now they have modern weapons at their disposal... Trucks, bombs, drones with bombs, machine guns, plus all the old school stuff like rape, machetes and clubs.

Islam... a sick segment of their religion has been at war with the modern, civilized west for a decades. They're using every means possible to kill, maim and disrupt civilized society.

It's no small threat. One only has to know their history and their version of Mein Kampf.

I wonder... what would these sick idiots do with sarin gas, anthrax, or nukes. No... there is no need to wonder, because these peace loving people... they're a small threat (facepalm).

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Of course you beat terrorist with love, compasion and continue with your daily life. That if you atack innocent people like for example all muslims or are to scare to continue your daily life then the terrorist have won. While at the same time you should of course fight them with other means like law enforcement.

Also if we follow your hatefule rethoric should we then also ban far right groups and beat their supporters into submission? Because as I wrote in my earlier post you for example have had Brevik that killed almost 80 people in Norway. In Sweden we for example have had Lasermannen, Peter Mangs and the school atack in Trollhättan. Also Hitler show what can happen then far right groups filled with hate against minorities rise to power.

tres borrachos said:

What was 2 weeks ago? The attack in Sweden was a couple of days ago. Are you confused?

The Parliament attacker was a British-born son of British Christians. No idea why you brought my post about that into this thread. I didn't mention Donald Trump in this thread.

I have no idea if the attack in Sweden has to do with Islam. Not sure why you're asking me. The attacker was born in Uzbekistan. I'll wait until the police release more information on him and the bodies are buried before discussing Islam. I'm talking about this attack with a truck and the innocent lives lost.

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I'm not confused in the least, but you surely seem to be shading the truth in the most pathetic manner possible... because... The murderer in London was a follower of Islam. An Islamic terrorist.

What is it with Leftists like you who cannot honestly state the known?

You also seem to have forgotten the tone of dissent bringing up the root cause for these and future problems we will face... done in the name of Islam... from the London thread.

In all the years since 911... all but one attack has been the result of Islam.

Why wait to discuss the sickness of Islam? So you can ignore the truth as you did with the London terrorist in the post quoted above?

You might want to narrow your focus to Sweden, which is typical of Leftists who wake up every morning and act as if history starts today. I'm taking about the series of terrorism brought to western civilization and has been active for decades.

What foolish societies would let a known threat enter their country, to terrorize their way of life? And what fools would say the way to defeat this is with "love"? Stupid Leftists is who.

Bergslagstroll said:

Of course you beat terrorist with love, compasion and continue with your daily life. That if you atack innocent people like for example all muslims or are to scare to continue your daily life then the terrorist have won. While at the same time you should of course fight them with other means like law enforcement.

Also if we follow your hatefule rethoric should we then also ban far right groups and beat their supporters into submission? Because as I wrote in my earlier post you for example have had Brevik that killed almost 80 people in Norway. In Sweden we for example have had Lasermannen, Peter Mangs and the school atack in Trollhättan. Also Hitler show what can happen then far right groups filled with hate against minorities rise to power.

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You kill terrorists into submission. You make their lives so miserable they do not want to wake up in the morning and face reality. It's a relentless effort... treating them like rats, and obliterating them wherever they emerge. It's them or us.

Law enforcement... beat them with law enforcement? ROTFLOL... Bill Clinton... is that you? That weakness only enables them... strengthens them... and since when are Leftists for law enforcement. In the USA, the Leftist cities pick and choose what federal laws they'd like to enforce.

Far Left groups are the ones wreaking havoc, and have wreaked havoc. Hitler was a Lefty by the way.

If you haven't noticed... these Islamic terrorists are the new Hitler, the followers the New Nazi's ... and you, and your ilk... the New Neville Chamberlains.

Clueless, hopeless, and dangerous.