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Trump says US is ready to act alone on North Korea

apdst said:
Surely all the Liberals do...lol
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I'm not a liberal anymore. I got sick of all the kale.


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Like Fletch already said once, NK is a dictatorial, centralized power structure that is inwardly disproportional and would be best dealt with indirectly.
 
Winston said:
I'm not a liberal anymore. I got sick of all the kale.


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Nice denial, but I didn't say you are a Liberal. I said, "the Liberals". Ever hear that old saying the shoe fitting?
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Like Fletch already said once, NK is a dictatorial, centralized power structure that is inwardly disproportional and would be best dealt with indirectly.
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How should we react if the Norks pop a nuke in Tokyo?
 
Jetboogieman said:
Once again, many words used to say nothing at all.

If you're a birther, it means you don't live in reality and if you don't live in reality I can't very well explain a complex situation to you can I?

Just read what I respond to others and you may actually learn something.
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Not even as an aspiring amoeba astrophysicist, so no. Some things are just impossible.

I've already wasted plenty of time I can assure you, have read plenty of your responses... but am still right here panning for that single gold nugget... I think you gave me the wrong map to your "information Eldorado"... very unkind of you.
 
Well, here we go again with the coming Rebuilding North Korea.

Yes,,yes, lets blast them and for the next 5 decades rebuild their infrastructure and feed them.
 
Winston said:
I'm genuinely interested in your take on our best course of action.

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Well here's the thing, I understand a thing or two about DPRK, but unfortunately a best course of action isn't among them, people who get paid to do this **** don't know what to do so it's doubtful I would.

The Kim regime is extremely resilient, I mean hell, it survived an apocalyptic famine, combined with the sudden loss of support from the dissolved Soviet Union in which people turned to cannibalism in some places in the 90's, if it could survive that, it can survive any internal issue from it's own citizens... And so with that in mind, the longshot hope that the Kim regime may be overthrown by a popular uprising is a pipe dream, but the most desirable outcome, although we can't be sure what China would do if it looked like an uprising could succeed.

So with that out of the way the most logical course of action would be to attempt to ferment a coup among the North Korean elite, but this too is extremely unlikely, Kim Jong Un has made it extremely clear what he does to people he even suspects of disloyalty, such an enterprise is fraught with obstacles that are not easily overcome, but no one man rules alone and North Korea, although we lack an understanding of day to day governance, is like any other Kingdom or State before it, there are internal power struggles, differing factions who I imagine, are extremely careful about how they operate, but it simply has to be there, but whether any one faction could succeed in overthrowing the government is doubtful.

One also has to understand why North Korea exists in the first place and has continued to do so.

For China, North Korea is a buffer against the West, a troublesome one but a buffer nonetheless and if it weren't for it's nuclear ambitions, a thorn in the wests side that would be a welcome distraction again if not for it's nuclear weapons program, which is as troubling to Beijing as it is to Washington, there are other factors that cause China to be weary of a breakdown of the North Korean state, one of them is apparently (and this is new information to me) the Chinese appear to be worried about certain diseases that exist in DPRK due to the poor Healthcare system, including multi-drug resistant strains of TB making it's way into China should there be a mass exodus in the wake of a breakdown in the State, which would surely occur.

Of course we then get down to some of the bigger problems with war with DPRK, number one being the fact that it is alleged DPRK has thousands, thousands of artillery batteries aimed at Seoul, they also have many Tunnels running under the border and plans to use small boats in the event of war, no matter who is the aggressor, their special forces have South Korean Military uniforms, their goal is allegedly to attack military bases, airfields, government buildings, hospitals, grocery stores, you name it, the goal is to cause as much chaos as possible behind the front lines, how large scale this may actually be is massively debatable, but the estimate puts these forces at around 200, 000 personnel.

The good news is the DPRK's conventional forces will be easily dealt with, there is no scenario in which the DPRK can come out as the victor, American and ROK airpower will annihilate what is likely to be a old Soviet Style mass infantry/tank push across the entire length of the border, easy pickings for the superior airpower, but in the meantime the border conflict will be extremely intense and bloody, the civilian casualties in Seoul and in other border areas would be absolutely appalling, to do what the OP is suggesting, evacuate Seoul, a city of over 10 million people may just be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum so far, how badly that would go is not even worth fathoming.

Kim Jong Un, for the cartoonish Stay Puff Marshmallow dictator we see him as, probably understands the reality of his situation, it explains his actions to a certain degree even if they sometimes go too far, but I explained that in another thread if you're interested:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/asia/282566-nuclear-war-possible-korean-peninsula.html#post1067045716

And I'm spent.
 
Though nothing should be off the table as a US response to further Nuc Test, nor should keeping ones cards close to there chest. This has always been an option, although low on the list. Trump can beat his chest all he wants ala I look Presidential style, you wont get no were with Lil Kim Dic without the Chinese.
 
Trump says US is ready to act alone on North Korea
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this could lead to something terrible. at this point, we can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.
 
sanman said:
President Trump says the United States is prepared to act alone against North Korea, if China doesn't help stop North Korea's nuclear program:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...b1812e-17e4-11e7-8598-9a99da559f9e_story.html





The US should be prepared to curbstomp North Korea, first evacuating much of Seoul if necessary. Doing this will make an example out of a leading pariah state whose activities threaten the world's safety.
Click to expand...

Good.

Nuke the bastards.

Let it be a lesson to other fools.

:2usflag:
 
NIMBY said:
Since you said Decades, you must mean DDE, RMN, RWR, GHWB and GWB.

The most dangerous kind of president is the one having domestic problems and looking to divert to a foreign war, especially the current chickenhawk .
Click to expand...

Bingo!
 
Jetboogieman said:
Well here's the thing, I understand a thing or two about DPRK, but unfortunately a best course of action isn't among them, people who get paid to do this **** don't know what to do so it's doubtful I would.

The Kim regime is extremely resilient, I mean hell, it survived an apocalyptic famine, combined with the sudden loss of support from the dissolved Soviet Union in which people turned to cannibalism in some places in the 90's, if it could survive that, it can survive any internal issue from it's own citizens... And so with that in mind, the longshot hope that the Kim regime may be overthrown by a popular uprising is a pipe dream, but the most desirable outcome, although we can't be sure what China would do if it looked like an uprising could succeed.

So with that out of the way the most logical course of action would be to attempt to ferment a coup among the North Korean elite, but this too is extremely unlikely, Kim Jong Un has made it extremely clear what he does to people he even suspects of disloyalty, such an enterprise is fraught with obstacles that are not easily overcome, but no one man rules alone and North Korea, although we lack an understanding of day to day governance, is like any other Kingdom or State before it, there are internal power struggles, differing factions who I imagine, are extremely careful about how they operate, but it simply has to be there, but whether any one faction could succeed in overthrowing the government is doubtful.

One also has to understand why North Korea exists in the first place and has continued to do so.

For China, North Korea is a buffer against the West, a troublesome one but a buffer nonetheless and if it weren't for it's nuclear ambitions, a thorn in the wests side that would be a welcome distraction again if not for it's nuclear weapons program, which is as troubling to Beijing as it is to Washington, there are other factors that cause China to be weary of a breakdown of the North Korean state, one of them is apparently (and this is new information to me) the Chinese appear to be worried about certain diseases that exist in DPRK due to the poor Healthcare system, including multi-drug resistant strains of TB making it's way into China should there be a mass exodus in the wake of a breakdown in the State, which would surely occur.

Of course we then get down to some of the bigger problems with war with DPRK, number one being the fact that it is alleged DPRK has thousands, thousands of artillery batteries aimed at Seoul, they also have many Tunnels running under the border and plans to use small boats in the event of war, no matter who is the aggressor, their special forces have South Korean Military uniforms, their goal is allegedly to attack military bases, airfields, government buildings, hospitals, grocery stores, you name it, the goal is to cause as much chaos as possible behind the front lines, how large scale this may actually be is massively debatable, but the estimate puts these forces at around 200, 000 personnel.

The good news is the DPRK's conventional forces will be easily dealt with, there is no scenario in which the DPRK can come out as the victor, American and ROK airpower will annihilate what is likely to be a old Soviet Style mass infantry/tank push across the entire length of the border, easy pickings for the superior airpower, but in the meantime the border conflict will be extremely intense and bloody, the civilian casualties in Seoul and in other border areas would be absolutely appalling, to do what the OP is suggesting, evacuate Seoul, a city of over 10 million people may just be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum so far, how badly that would go is not even worth fathoming.

Kim Jong Un, for the cartoonish Stay Puff Marshmallow dictator we see him as, probably understands the reality of his situation, it explains his actions to a certain degree even if they sometimes go too far, but I explained that in another thread if you're interested:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/asia/282566-nuclear-war-possible-korean-peninsula.html#post1067045716

And I'm spent.
Click to expand...

Evacuating Seoul is not reasonable at all. Seoul is one of the most modern cities in the world. Even if you somehow got all the millions of people out, you'd be sacrificing one of the most expensive and beautiful infrastructures in the world.

Bonus points for the stay puff comparison.


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Helix said:
this could lead to something terrible. at this point, we can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.
Click to expand...

Does the Trump admin have any of those?
 
Winston said:
Evacuating Seoul is not reasonable at all. Seoul is one of the most modern cities in the world. Even if you somehow got all the millions of people out, you'd be sacrificing one of the most expensive and beautiful infrastructures in the world.

Bonus points for the stay puff comparison.


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Click to expand...

On top of that.

1. A massive disruption to one of the worlds largest economies, sending shockwaves to world markets.

2. Evacuating the largest city in Korea in preparation for war... I wonder if the North Koreans will suspect anything....
 
sanman said:
President Trump says the United States is prepared to act alone against North Korea, if China doesn't help stop North Korea's nuclear program:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...b1812e-17e4-11e7-8598-9a99da559f9e_story.html





The US should be prepared to curbstomp North Korea, first evacuating much of Seoul if necessary. Doing this will make an example out of a leading pariah state whose activities threaten the world's safety.
Click to expand...

Metropolitan Seoul has a population of approx 25 million people, slightly greater than that of metro New York City. It is the financial and political hub of South Korea, the 4th largest economy in Asia and the 11th largest in the world. It seems to me like shutting this place down and evacuating "much" of its population to... somewhere could be problematic on a number of levels.

If I'm replying to another example of sarcasm like the one that tripped me up earlier in a different context I apologise in advance.
 
NIMBY said:
Since you said Decades, you must mean DDE, RMN, RWR, GHWB and GWB.

The most dangerous kind of president is the one having domestic problems and looking to divert to a foreign war, especially the current chickenhawk .
Click to expand...

The last two presidents definitely did engage in unnecessary foreign engagements to distract from their incompetent domestic policies.
 
sanman said:
And you'd rather just let Kim hold a nuclear knife to America's throat. That's the worst idea.

China doesn't want to do anything, and Trump is sensibly pressuring them by telling them that if they don't act, then the US will. If the US doesn't adopt an action-oriented position, then China will just yawn and let lil Kim do whatever he pleases. At least a tougher posture from the US will put them on notice.
Click to expand...

Let's look at it way...the North Korean Kim and the American version of Kim don't need to play with each other. They're both ****ed up as Hogan's goat. They both have the same DSM V mental illness diagnosis = Severe Narcissism. And I'm sure if you search enough that you'll find that there's already been a number of qualified professionals chimed in on our ferocious leader's various psychological issues.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Well here's the thing, I understand a thing or two about DPRK, but unfortunately a best course of action isn't among them, people who get paid to do this **** don't know what to do so it's doubtful I would.

The Kim regime is extremely resilient, I mean hell, it survived an apocalyptic famine, combined with the sudden loss of support from the dissolved Soviet Union in which people turned to cannibalism in some places in the 90's, if it could survive that, it can survive any internal issue from it's own citizens... And so with that in mind, the longshot hope that the Kim regime may be overthrown by a popular uprising is a pipe dream, but the most desirable outcome, although we can't be sure what China would do if it looked like an uprising could succeed.

So with that out of the way the most logical course of action would be to attempt to ferment a coup among the North Korean elite, but this too is extremely unlikely, Kim Jong Un has made it extremely clear what he does to people he even suspects of disloyalty, such an enterprise is fraught with obstacles that are not easily overcome, but no one man rules alone and North Korea, although we lack an understanding of day to day governance, is like any other Kingdom or State before it, there are internal power struggles, differing factions who I imagine, are extremely careful about how they operate, but it simply has to be there, but whether any one faction could succeed in overthrowing the government is doubtful.

One also has to understand why North Korea exists in the first place and has continued to do so.

For China, North Korea is a buffer against the West, a troublesome one but a buffer nonetheless and if it weren't for it's nuclear ambitions, a thorn in the wests side that would be a welcome distraction again if not for it's nuclear weapons program, which is as troubling to Beijing as it is to Washington, there are other factors that cause China to be weary of a breakdown of the North Korean state, one of them is apparently (and this is new information to me) the Chinese appear to be worried about certain diseases that exist in DPRK due to the poor Healthcare system, including multi-drug resistant strains of TB making it's way into China should there be a mass exodus in the wake of a breakdown in the State, which would surely occur.

Of course we then get down to some of the bigger problems with war with DPRK, number one being the fact that it is alleged DPRK has thousands, thousands of artillery batteries aimed at Seoul, they also have many Tunnels running under the border and plans to use small boats in the event of war, no matter who is the aggressor, their special forces have South Korean Military uniforms, their goal is allegedly to attack military bases, airfields, government buildings, hospitals, grocery stores, you name it, the goal is to cause as much chaos as possible behind the front lines, how large scale this may actually be is massively debatable, but the estimate puts these forces at around 200, 000 personnel.

The good news is the DPRK's conventional forces will be easily dealt with, there is no scenario in which the DPRK can come out as the victor, American and ROK airpower will annihilate what is likely to be a old Soviet Style mass infantry/tank push across the entire length of the border, easy pickings for the superior airpower, but in the meantime the border conflict will be extremely intense and bloody, the civilian casualties in Seoul and in other border areas would be absolutely appalling, to do what the OP is suggesting, evacuate Seoul, a city of over 10 million people may just be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum so far, how badly that would go is not even worth fathoming.

Kim Jong Un, for the cartoonish Stay Puff Marshmallow dictator we see him as, probably understands the reality of his situation, it explains his actions to a certain degree even if they sometimes go too far, but I explained that in another thread if you're interested:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/asia/282566-nuclear-war-possible-korean-peninsula.html#post1067045716

And I'm spent.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Bravo and well done!
 
Jetboogieman said:
Well here's the thing...
And I'm spent.
Click to expand...

Heh, you're calling me dumb, and yet you totally omit the threat that Nork nukes will pose to the United States. The issue of Nuclear Blackmail seems conspicuously missing from today's political lexicon - gee, I wonder why? Could it be that we're no longer able to contemplate closing the barn door after the horses have fled? Once upon a time, we used to talk about the dangers of one day living under nuclear blackmail. Nowadays we don't talk about that anymore - because we don't want to admit that we're now indeed living in the days of nuclear blackmail - we've crossed what was once an unthinkable threshold.

North Korea cannot be allowed to develop a full-blown nuclear arsenal, because they will then hold everyone else within missile range for ransom and demand payment. The US will be reduced to a hollow power, with our treacherous Lefties reflexively ranting about Russia yet yawning at Kim's very real nuclear shadow over us.

If North Korea is allowed to develop a full-blown nuclear arsenal, then at a minimum Japan will want to go nuclear.
 
sanman said:
Heh, you're calling me dumb, and yet you totally omit the threat that Nork nukes will pose to the United States
Click to expand...

I see your nonsense and raise you facts:

Jetboogieman said:
People often see North Korea as a whacky cavalcade dictatorship in the hands of a Korean Stay Puff Marshmallow man... And it is partially that, but the Norths ultimate goal of Nuclear Weapons, in their eyes is a necessity to protect themselves from what they perceive as an imminent threat from the South and the US, or maybe even China willing to back someone else to bring the country to heel.

Kim Jong Un is no fool in the sense that, he understands 2 things.

1. The US and South Korea will seize on any opportunity whatsoever to overthrow his regime if such an opportunity were to present itself with minimal risk.

2. It is all but assured if such an opportunity were taken, it would result in his most likely very violent death.

He saw what the US did to Gadaffi, even if you're on the right side of the west they may still take you out if the opportunity presented itself.

And so one of the only ways he can see to secure his very life and that of his regime, is to possess nuclear weapons as a deterrent against what the North Koreans perceive as an imminent invasion.

There's a method to his madness, even if sometimes he goes too far, he killed his uncle, his brother, purged many members of the military and Elite... These were disturbing but are ultimately logical from his perspective, just because its North Korea doesn't mean there aren't internal power struggles that are a threat to Kim Jong Uns Primacy.

Better to kill 9 Loyal Generals and One Traitor than let the one live and fester.

In any case, if we take into account the actions of Kim Jong Un rather than the rhetoric, we do see as a matter of fact, that he may be more cold and calculating than we initially thought, he understands a thing or two and so in theory understands another thing, that any nuclear attack he undertakes will be met with the end of his country, his regime and his life the very things he's trying to avoid in the first place.

The danger I see from all this, is not necessarily war on the Peninsula, but the North Koreans using the threat of assisting in further nuclear proliferation in other states or god forbid, giving nuclear materials to non-state violent actors, or threatening to do so as a form of diplomatic blackmail.

In any case there are no easy answers to the North Korean conundrum... And the hope that somehow the Kim Dynasty may collapse appears to have been a decades long pipe dream that continues to be allusive.
Click to expand...
 
reinoe said:
The last two presidents definitely did engage in unnecessary foreign engagements to distract from their incompetent domestic policies.
Click to expand...

So did you agree with Iraq-1, Iraq-2 and Iran-Contra WHILE they were happening?

Or do you support the current chickenhawk who was for Iraq-2 before he was against it?

Have you noticed an uptick in deployed forces since djt has come on ?
 
Jetboogieman said:
I see your nonsense and raise you facts:
Click to expand...

You might as well have cited the distance between the Earth and Moon among your "facts" - my point is that you're ignoring the clear and present danger of Nork nukes against the United States. I don't care how much that fat clown frets for the future of his family throne - the rest of us don't revolve around him, we have our own lives to live. The fat clown has not been able to devise a mode of existence for himself that will allow him to coexist with us - either we get rid of him, or the fat clown will make our existence miserable, holding his nuclear knife to our throats.

You saying that "the problem isn't easily solvable" doesn't change the fact that it's going to get worse and worse, so the sooner the fat clown regime is removed, the better. If that means the US and its allies have to act unilaterally, then so be it. Furthermore, if South Korea goes "Sunshine" under some Lefty govt in the near future, and tries to undermine the US position against Pyongyang, then the US will have to lay down the law to Seoul, and tell them they'll have to fend for themselves if they don't know how to be a team player.
 
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