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Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm election

Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
He already did! Jesus!
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Bull****

Trump has no friends in washington except his base voters

Without the Freedom Caucus voters he is finished and I think he knows that
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
Bull****

Trump has no friends in washington except his base voters

Without the Freedom Caucus voters he is finished and I think he knows that
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No, not bull****. He promised his base:

1)Everybody will be insured
2)No cuts to medicaid
3)Nobody will be worse financially
4)People can buy their insurance across state lines

Trump gave in on every one of these points when the Republicans drafted their own healthcare plan, and in addition even agreed to get ride of the ten essential health benefits. And when it all got too annoying he gave up and walked away from improving healthcare altogether.

He abandoned his conservative base as quickly and massively as was humanly possible.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
I simply can't believe these people don't have an opinion on where they fit between Trump's promise of a healthcare policy that gave them everything they'd want vs. their own Representatives who promised to starve them of any healthcare at all. I don't care if they have the collective IQ of a box of tic-tacs, they've got to have something to say about that.
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Trump endorsed a policy that would deprive 24 million of health care. How that's a substantial improvement over the re-teaplican / freedom caucus, and how the latter can align with the dems he's equally vilifying, who want to save those 24 million, i have no idea

They may have noticed the promises he made and how it contrasts greatly from the policy he endorsed, but that has nothing to do with his ongoing or newfound political enemies. It's difficult to see how they could hold the recent ****storm against Trump but not the 'freedom caucus', or vice versa, whatever revisionist crap he attempts. While i agree with him they're a huge problem, he's been exposed as a hugely self-serving PoS too, and they'll both go down with each other if anything
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
I think they can agree on other subjects

But if winning is the goal why not win on healthcare with the Freedom Caucus instead of without them?
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Trump promised essentially universal coverage for health insurance, and he explicitly promised to protect SS, Medicare and Medicaid. The Freedom Caucus wants to obliterate public subsidies of insurance, or at least to dramatically reduce them, with the effect of 10s of millions more uninsured - Ryan's plan that cut Medicaid by $900 billion/10 years did not go FAR ENOUGH for the FC zealots. They are conflicting goals, and the FC agenda is toxic for people outside most safe House districts unless running on "Yes, we proudly tripled the uninsurance rate but we saved rich donors a BUNCH in taxes!" is what they're planning on doing.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
I simply can't believe these people don't have an opinion on where they fit between Trump's promise of a healthcare policy that gave them everything they'd want vs. their own Representatives who promised to starve them of any healthcare at all. I don't care if they have the collective IQ of a box of tic-tacs, they've got to have something to say about that.
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Unlike intelligence, stupidity knows no limits
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Unitedwestand13 said:
But if it does divide the Republican base, the 2018 midterms may provide an interesting outcome.
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Why Trump would threaten members of his own party with non support Nov 2018, I should think those members are not to concerned with a Pres who is at 37% approval.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
He already did!

Jesus!
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I do not know many Conservatives who would utter, health care for all! Now if a Dem said it, oh wait, he already did.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Carjosse said:
I am sure a Republican civil war will go well for the GOP.
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Worked wonders for the Bernie crowd. Now we get to have nothing Bernie wanted, and all of the GOP's policies.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

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Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
No, not bull****. He promised his base:

1)Everybody will be insured
2)No cuts to medicaid
3)Nobody will be worse financially
4)People can buy their insurance across state lines

Trump gave in on every one of these points when the Republicans drafted their own healthcare plan, and in addition even agreed to get ride of the ten essential health benefits. And when it all got too annoying he gave up and walked away from improving healthcare altogether.

He abandoned his conservative base as quickly and massively as was humanly possible.
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Trump cannot write a healthcare bill for congress

Obama didnt write obamacare

But right now trump appears to be blaming the Freedom Caucus instead of Paul Ryan who is really to blame for the failure of the bill

So I disagree with trump on this and will just have to see how it all plays out
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
Trump cannot write a healthcare bill for congress

Obama didnt write obamacare

But right now trump appears to be blaming the Freedom Caucus instead of Paul Ryan who is really to blame for the failure of the bill

So I disagree with trump on this and will just have to see how it all plays out
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So what you're saying then is that Trump is impotent. He can make all the promises in the world, but if he doesn't guide the policy he promised you in any way and then gives up when it annoys him, what good is he to you?

And if you don't think Obama had a gigantic hand in the PPACA's content, I don't even know what to tell you.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
So what you're saying then is that Trump is impotent. He can make all the promises in the world, but if he doesn't guide the policy he promised you in any way and then gives up when it annoys him, what good is he to you?

And if you don't think Obama had a gigantic hand in the PPACA's content, I don't even know what to tell you.
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I am saying that the blame for not repealing and replace obamacare is paul ryan's

Yes it makes trump look bad too

But the real failure is Ryan
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
I am saying that the blame for not repealing and replace obamacare is paul ryan's

Yes it makes trump look bad too

But the real failure is Ryan
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Actually it's Trump's. The bill that Ryan made was based on his already existing positions. It wasn't his position to make a bill that covered everyone and lowered costs, that was Trump's idea. So the fact that Trump made no attempt to involve himself in the bill's creation or to defend the content he promised everyone makes it squarely his fault.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
Actually it's Trump's. The bill that Ryan made was based on his already existing positions. It wasn't his position to make a bill that covered everyone and lowered costs, that was Trump's idea. So the fact that Trump made no attempt to involve himself in the bill's creation or to defend the content he promised everyone makes it squarely his fault.
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No its ryans

He has been in the house during all the years since obamacare was enacted

And it has been his policy to repeal and replace

So he had 7 years to write a bill that 215 republicans could support and he failed miserably
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Yeah, when Trump said his plan will cover more people and cost much less he pretty much backed the GOP in the corner. They couldn't totally kill it because of what he said, plus the moderates would have revolted. So the GOP tried to please the Mods, and they tried to keep some of Trump's ridiculous promise, but all that did was to piss off the far right Cons. lol

Eventually Trump's big mouth and braggart attitude was going to backfire on him, and it did. And it will again.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
No its ryans

He has been in the house during all the years since obamacare was enacted

And it has been his policy to repeal and replace

So he had 7 years to write a bill that 215 republicans could support and he failed miserably
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Then you accept the reality that any time Trump wants his legislation passed, he will be impotent. And that's because he can be expected to leave that legislation in the hands of other people without reviewing or guiding it. Which means that the key points in the resulting legislation won't be the ones he promised his constituents.

Which brings us back to the original question: What good is Trump to you then? If he won't even try to bring the policies he promised you to fruition, why not replace him with, say, a box of tic-tacs or a Twisted Sister poster?
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Republican political pundits who have been following this say that anonymous White House officials have targeted HFC Rep. Alex Mooney of West Virginia to be an example of Trump vengeance. The Trump team will do everything it can to see that Mooney is either replaced or defeated in the Republican primary.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
Then you accept the reality that any time Trump wants his legislation passed, he will be impotent.

And that's because he can be expected to leave that legislation in the hands of other people without reviewing or guiding it. Which means that the key points in the resulting legislation won't be the ones he promised his constituents.

Which brings us back to the original question: What good is Trump to you then? If he won't even try to bring the policies he promised you to fruition, why not replace him with, say, a box of tic-tacs or a Twisted Sister poster?
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That remains to be seen

If ryan continues to be incompetent then it will be a big disappointment for trump voters who want to see real change

The hope is that trump can learn from his mistake of expecting the congressional republicans to do their jobs

And attacking the Freedom Caucus is not a good sign

But politics is a rough and tumble sport with many competing forces to contend with.

All I can do is hang in there and hope for the best
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
That remains to be seen

If ryan continues to be incompetent then it will be a big disappointment for trump voters who want to see real change

The hope is that trump can learn from his mistake of expecting the congressional republicans to do their jobs

And attacking the Freedom Caucus is not a good sign

But politics is a rough and tumble sport with many competing forces to contend with.

All I can do is hang in there and hope for the best
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It doesn't "remain to be seen." It already happened. He's impotent because he doesn't have the frame of mind to follow and guide complex policies. This means he will always be at the mercy of people who create their own complex policies, for better or for worse. So once again, since you keep ignoring this...what good is Trump to you then?
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Obama is no longer in office, so the far right doesn't have him to focus their hate on. So this war with Trump is kind of funny. The far right thrived under Obama because they had someone to hate, and probably 95% of the far right cons voted for Trump.

Now Trump is in the WH and vowing revenge on the far right. It's going to be very tough for them to focus their hate on Trump when almost all of them voted for Trump.

Pretty funny that they were stronger and more potent when there was a Dem in the WH. lol
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
It doesn't "remain to be seen." It already happened. He's impotent because he doesn't have the frame of mind to follow and guide complex policies. This means he will always be at the mercy of people who create their own complex policies, for better or for worse. So once again, since you keep ignoring this...what good is Trump to you then?
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We have only played the first set of downs in a 60 minute game

But of course you are quick to predict failure because thats what you want
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Cardinal said:
So what you're saying then is that Trump is impotent. He can make all the promises in the world, but if he doesn't guide the policy he promised you in any way and then gives up when it annoys him, what good is he to you?

And if you don't think Obama had a gigantic hand in the PPACA's content, I don't even know what to tell you.
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Just to be clear: Presidents rarely get away with shoving a completed bill at Congress.

Legislators like to legislate. ;) President sets a general agenda; Congress sets the specifics and horse-trades; President is engaged in trading and whipping up support, to the extent he cares about the bill.

As to fault for the crash & burn of the AHCA, there is a lot of blame to go around. Ryan's bill sucked ass -- but so would any bill. It would either be too harsh for the moderates, or not harsh enough for the FC. Trump didn't give a crap about any policy details, and didn't seem very engaged, despite a few days of attempted deal-making.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Mac77 said:
That remains to be seen

If ryan continues to be incompetent then it will be a big disappointment for trump voters who want to see real change
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You can't blame Ryan forever.

The Freedom Caucus refuses to play ball. The House leadership doesn't want to include Democrats in the process at all. The moderates will not go along with the Freedom Caucus.

Most importantly of all, Republicans don't know how to actually legislate. They've spent 8 years screaming NO, and have no idea right now how to get to YES.


The hope is that trump can learn from his mistake of expecting the congressional republicans to do their jobs
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hahahahaha

Republicans and conservatives have been hoping for almost 2 years for Trump to change. He won't. How can you change, if you don't ever acknowledge you've made a mistake?
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Visbek said:
Just to be clear: Presidents rarely get away with shoving a completed bill at Congress.

Legislators like to legislate. ;) President sets a general agenda; Congress sets the specifics and horse-trades; President is engaged in trading and whipping up support, to the extent he cares about the bill.

As to fault for the crash & burn of the AHCA, there is a lot of blame to go around. Ryan's bill sucked ass -- but so would any bill. It would either be too harsh for the moderates, or not harsh enough for the FC. Trump didn't give a crap about any policy details, and didn't seem very engaged, despite a few days of attempted deal-making.
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I never suggested they could shovel their bills to Congress, but if Presidents have any interest in their pet legislation, they do tend to keep themselves informed of its contents and perhaps...just maybe...guide its progress in some way so as to make sure that it doesn't stray too far from the promises he made his constituents. Trump did literally none of that.
 
Re: Trump: ‘We must fight’ hard-line conservative Freedom Caucus in 2018 midterm elec

Visbek said:
You can't blame Ryan forever.

The Freedom Caucus refuses to play ball.

The House leadership doesn't want to include Democrats in the process at all. The moderates will not go along with the Freedom Caucus.

Most importantly of all, Republicans don't know how to actually legislate. They've spent 8 years screaming NO, and have no idea right now how to get to YES.



hahahahaha

Republicans and conservatives have been hoping for almost 2 years for Trump to change. He won't. How can you change, if you don't ever acknowledge you've made a mistake?
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You mean ryan refuses to write a bill that a majority of republicans will vote for

And this scheme of his to repeal and replce in three easy steps is nonsense

He wants his candy now and promises to pay for it later

Conservatives have learned not to trust promises lke that
 
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