• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump predicts failure of health care bill will lead to a ‘truly great plan’

OlNate said:
You are suspiciously right for someone on the Right...... :stop:

Seriously, kudos for putting reality ahead of partisanship. Given that grasp on reality, it makes it easy for me to say "Well, it's not like HRC was a good choice either". And then we can start to talk about how to fix it from both sides. See how this works, people? Partisanship keeps people apart, and nothing can ever be made better. Good for them, bad for us. Props to those brave enough to acknowledge the human condition of being wrong from time to time, but always trying to make things better anyway.

Ya, I like you, bud, a lot. :bravo:
Click to expand...

Actually I vote both parties and more recently neither party especially on the local level. I think it is the local level where we can break the strangle hold the rich and powerful have on our government. I am tired of choosing between their bought and paid for candidate R or D. How can I win when I have only 3 choices and all make me the loser. I can vote for either the democrat or republican party that are both owned by the rich and powerful or not vote at all. I am changing my view from choosing the lesser of 2 evils to no choice but evil.

This is why the number of people in this country that do not vote is so high. I know people who take off work to vote and go to the coffee shop for an hour. He said at least he didn't waste his time. The amount of Americans that feel this way is almost half the population. Almost half the people in this country do not vote because they believe it is a waste of time. What is even more sad than this is the fact they are probably right.
 
Hatuey said:
Republicans are the ones with the problem with Obamacare... Why do they need anybody else's support to change it if they have the numbers?
Click to expand...

Because forcing bull**** on people that do not give permission or buy in is wrong. Just like it was wrong to force us to pay for Obamacare.

If you are not experiencing it then I am glad for you. No one should have to deal with it. Obamacare has affected me financially in a terrible way.

Someday I may relate the story.
 
Lutherf said:
Why does the solution have to be universal health care? That's the problem. Lots of folks have it in their head that the only way to fix things is to abandon fundamental individual liberty. Not everybody believes that's the only way and many of us won't tolerate it.
Click to expand...

Because insurance works by spreading risk out, and if you believed that it would be desirable to have a country where everyone can see the doctor when they're sick, it's the only inevitable conclusion. It's also the only system that's shown to provide universal coverage and at a much lower cost. The whole "individual liberty" argument is complete and total nonsense. In Germany if you don't want to be part of the public option, you can take every cent of that money and go private, you don't have to be, and everyone public or private is paying less than half of what we pay.

You just arbitrarily label your own beliefs as "liberty", when in reality you have much more liberty when you can choose your work and manage your life without having to worry about what happens when you get sick. If you valued liberty and had any compassion whatsoever for your countrymen you'd support such a system. Let's do it your way and just say **** the poor and lower middle class, those bitches can just get ****ed if they can't afford treatment, right?
 
Last edited:
Lutherf said:
Leaving the HMO and going to a different plan. That's kind of what individual liberty is all about.
Click to expand...

The ability to leave a plan and shop for a new one requires some degree of regulatory protection. Without it, any condition developed while you're enrolled in HMO 1 can preclude you from shopping for a plan from someone else. Which destroys the whole concept of a consumer market.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
If Trump advocated for a health care plan that covered all Americans I am positive he would get tons of support from Democrats. Despite campaign promises it's obvious he prefers a system where only some people get healthcare, and thus won't get any Democratic votes. From 2009-2016 we saw the GOP vote against even things they supported if it came from Obama, we haven't seen the Democrats oppose something they want just because it came from Trump, yet.
Click to expand...

I see, so democrats taking a my-way-or-the-highway stance is what you see as good governance. Good to know.
 
Fletch said:
I see, so democrats taking a my-way-or-the-highway stance is what you see as good governance. Good to know.
Click to expand...

Or taking a "All Americans should have healthcare" stance. I'm not sure why anyone would advocate for a system where many Americans simply don't have healthcare at all. The GOP can't even agree with each other on whether they should throw a lot or a whole lot of people off their healthcare plans.

We should just let the poor and lower middle class die of treatable conditions if they can't afford health insurance, right? If they want medical care they should become more successful like you.
 
Lutherf said:
Why does the solution have to be universal health care? That's the problem. Lots of folks have it in their head that the only way to fix things is to abandon fundamental individual liberty. Not everybody believes that's the only way and many of us won't tolerate it.
Click to expand...

Given that the GOP doesn't seem able to come up with any kind of solution that will provide care to all people in the US, and the alternative is the have the fundamental individual liberty to die without care, I think considering the solution of universal care sure makes more sense than whatever the GOP is doing.
 
Lutherf said:
The Democrats are not going to support anything Trump does. The same goes for a chunk of Republicans. Throw in Conservatives that want a straight repeal and it's amazing the bill got any votes.

Near as I can tell this bill went a long way toward getting passed and that's a positive sign. There is obviously a lot of agreement so it's not over yet. The best part of failure is that now you know what won't work so you can dump those parts and start over.
Click to expand...

Actual facts disagree with you. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/

4 democrats have voted over half the time for Trump position. 22 have voted the Trump position 30 % or more.

Edit: note, that is the senate, the house has one democrat(Henry Cuellar) at 75 %, and only 3 at 0 %.
 
Last edited:
beerftw said:
Technically he does, the republicans are divided, and have been for ages, unlike the democrats who tend to vote more in lockstep. You have trumps general ideas, which many republicans call too liberal. You have ryans plan which trump has praised but yet ideologically does not agree with. You have moderate republicans who want an inbetween of what trump wants and what ryan wants, then you have the freedom caucus who wants a straight repeal with no replacement.

Too many divisions and I agree with trump moving on. If the bill was poorly written where even a good amount of republicans would not support it let alone democrats, time to move on to other legislation, the republicans or democrats or hopefully both can work on it in the meantime and come up with a bill that does not piss off every group this time.
Click to expand...

Again, facts disagree with you. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/house/. Notice all those republicans voting 100 % with Trump, a whole lot more of them than democrats voting 0 % with Trump.
 
beerftw said:
Well I guess sometime republicans vote in lockstep just like democrats, just depends on what they are voting on.
Click to expand...

Neither is necessarily true. This week has shown republicans will break lockstep. Guantanamo Bay is one example(of many) where democrats did the same thing. Both major defeats at the start of the president's term(Guantanamo for Obama, AHCA for Trump).
 
Redress said:
Neither is necessarily true. This week has shown republicans will break lockstep. Guantanamo Bay is one example(of many) where democrats did the same thing. Both major defeats at the start of the president's term(Guantanamo for Obama, AHCA for Trump).
Click to expand...

Well when I speak of republicans opposing trump, I refer to immigration reform, the wall, mending relations with russia etc. Obamacare was a clear division among the republicans, all wanted it gone but no one could agree on how to replace it. Now if it came down to trumps tax reform, I can almost expect a lockstep vote for by republicans and against by democrats.
 
Right now he's probably thinking of Vlad and wondering WWPD?
 
beerftw said:
Well when I speak of republicans opposing trump, I refer to immigration reform, the wall, mending relations with russia etc. Obamacare was a clear division among the republicans, all wanted it gone but no one could agree on how to replace it. Now if it came down to trumps tax reform, I can almost expect a lockstep vote for by republicans and against by democrats.
Click to expand...

I can see a few scenarios where republicans break ranks on tax reform. It is going to be a really interesting process, with the Freedom Coalition wanting big cuts but with lower debt, while Tuesday Group republicans and republicans from purple districts worrying about winners and losers in changes to the tax code, and too many cuts to services.
 
beerftw said:
Well when I speak of republicans opposing trump, I refer to immigration reform, the wall, mending relations with russia etc. Obamacare was a clear division among the republicans, all wanted it gone but no one could agree on how to replace it. Now if it came down to trumps tax reform, I can almost expect a lockstep vote for by republicans and against by democrats.
Click to expand...

trump and his White House continue to not comment on the suppression of russian protesters over Putin/Medvedev corruption, including Tillerson.

After Sen. Sasse questioned why U. S. Leaders were not commenting, the acting State Dept spokesman said something. Sounds like Russia continues to get everything they want from a trump who has never criticized them .
 
The promise was the full repeal of Obamacare. Funny, they were able to get that bill on Obama's desk, for him to veto, over and over. So, where is that resolve now? Repeal the piece of garbage now. No one promised or wanted another government healthcare program to replace it, that's what the left wants. Whenever they get in power again, they will just expand it and bury us in debt.

People that want to buy insurance don't want jacked up "premiums" because they also have to pay for pre-existing conditions and plans for people that can't afford healthcare. That's not insurance, that redistribution of wealth. The government does too much of that already. Get the government as far away from healthcare as possible. There should be as little government involvement as possible. Get the hell out of the way, let healthcare loose in the free market. People that can't afford it should be in a completely different program, get them away from people that can buy insurance.
 
Anthony60 said:
The promise was the full repeal of Obamacare.
Click to expand...
Not from Trump.

Funny, they were able to get that bill on Obama's desk, for him to veto, over and over.
Click to expand...
Because like now they had no solution.

So, where is that resolve now?
Click to expand...
Seriously?

Repeal the piece of garbage now. No one promised or wanted another government healthcare program to replace it
Click to expand...
Maybe you should turn on the news, Fox even.

that's what the left wants.
Click to expand...
No, that is what the people want.

Whenever they get in power again, they will just expand it and bury us in debt.
Click to expand...
Universal healthcare, that is what rational and intelligent people know that is the solution.

People that want to buy insurance don't want jacked up "premiums" because they also have to pay for pre-existing conditions and plans for people that can't afford healthcare. That's not insurance, that redistribution of wealth.
Click to expand...
Your ignorant talking point does not change reality. That is what insurance is, spreading of risk.
 
prometeus said:
Not from Trump.

No, that is what the people want.

Universal healthcare, that is what rational and intelligent people know that is the solution.

Your ignorant talking point does not change reality. That is what insurance is, spreading of risk.
Click to expand...

You are delusional if you think we want another big government, hugely expensive program. That will, of course, be a disaster. You are truly ignorant, if you think government healthcare is insurance. It's not. It's a redistribution of wealth program. Go ahead, deny that.
 
Anthony60 said:
You are delusional if you think we want another big government
Click to expand...
Nobody wants big government and universal healthcare is still the solution for an advanced nation. Your partisan talking points are just that, nothing rational, intelligent or factual about them.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The Republicans need to get this through their thick heads:

Any plan that is built upon our current system where old people are on Medicare, very poor people are on Medicaid, and most everyone else with insurance is covered by their employer group plan, and that insures about the same number of people that are insured now, will look just like the ACA does. The ACA looks and works the way it does because it is the only way of increasing coverage with our current system. That is it. Get used to it.

So what they should do, which they won't, is fix the problems with the ACA rather than trying to repeal and replace it. Because there is nothing you can replace it with that builds on our system that won't look and work just like it.

The ACA looks and works just like RomneyCare did in Massachusetts. The reason for that is that unless you throw everything out and go single payer (which is politically impossible), there is only one way of doing it.
Click to expand...

What's sad is, Hillary Clinton absolutely knew that, and that's why she stated up-front that it would be ridiculous in our current political climate to go for nationwide single-payer. But the Far Left wouldn't listen because HURRR DURRR SHE'S A CORPORATIST, DURRRR
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's going to be virtually impossible to implement a modern healthcare system as long as half the country thinks the poor and lower middle class shouldn't get healthcare at all. We could do a lot if we could at least agree that full coverage would be desirable. The rest of the world has shown they can provide full coverage from cradle to grave for every man, woman and child at a fraction of the cost.

We're #1 in healthcare costs, #31 in life expectancy and #33 in percentage covered. The numbers speak for themselves. We pay a lot more to get a lot less. Healthcare in this country is extremely rationed.
Click to expand...

With Obamacare you are doing just that at a higher cost. What exactly are you complaining about? Obamacare survived as "is the law of the land". It's what you wanted. It's what you got, and it may or may not be reviewed, but fixed to be made successful.
 
prometeus said:
Nobody wants big government and universal healthcare is still the solution for an advanced nation. Your partisan talking points are just that, nothing rational, intelligent or factual about them.
Click to expand...

Trouble is, it's not advanced, it's backwards. It does not promote or consider personal freedom or liberty. It is about big government and socialism, which are proven failures (at least if you enjoy freedom) throughout history. No power like that is given to the government by our Constitution, and that's for a good reason. We fought to get away from tyranny.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom