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No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump[W:400]******

Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

You can make that argument for the Medicaid expansion but you can't make that argument for anyone else. They were sold a false bill of goods. They got a piece of paper that says they have insurance but they can't use it. With the high deductibles and out of pocket expenses, their so called health insurance is totally worthless. Democrats like to tout the fact on paper that these people have insurance but if these people can't use it because they can't afford the deductibles and out of pocket costs, then they don't really have insurance at all. The poorer all had access to healthcare before Obamacare. They didn't have to pay the bill and they didn't have to declare bankruptcy either. So, they are really not any better off than they were before.


I am not familiar with all of the facets of American healthcare so I'm not even going to attempt to factcheck that. Let me just say that your healthcare is waaaayyyyyy too complicated -- much more than it should be. You Americans need to decide whether you have no issues with your people dying right left and centre because they cannot afford healthcare or that you all believe that healthcare is a fundamental right of each individual.
 
I can't believe this failed in the House, IF indeed it is 100% over: I don't think so.
Trump simply can't lost Battle/Issue #1. His and the GOP's signature legislation. The GOP 'repealed' O'care 52 times while Obama was President.
But they have nothing to replace it.
"Art of the Deal", or just/IAC the Charles Manson-of-Twitter?

No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump
by LEIGH ANN CALDWELL -
MAR 23 2017, 1:53 PM ET
No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump - NBC News

Good thing it failed.

What does it illustrate though?

1. R's a re a bigger tent party than the goose stepping Leftists.

2. There are enough in the party unwilling to sign up to ObamaKare 1.1. Good.

3. ObamaKare is still a Demokrat owned abortion.

4. ObamaKare is going to implode further... and hopefully next go around we will get some free market reforms, and not a warmed over ObamaKare Turd.

5. Hopefully Ryan gets knocked out of the leadership.

This is all good for America. Americans will suffer with ObamaAbortion for a while longer, but at some point it'll be replaced... hopefully by a free market solution.

If you prefer to buy an expensive car or cell phone or whatever... rather than health insurance... OK. Your choice. You're free to choose. :)
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

I am not familiar with all of the facets of American healthcare so I'm not even going to attempt to factcheck that. Let me just say that your healthcare is waaaayyyyyy too complicated -- much more than it should be. You Americans need to decide whether you have no issues with your people dying right left and centre because they cannot afford healthcare or that you all believe that healthcare is a fundamental right of each individual.

Our healthcare is very complicated. I don't deny that. But, you are totally wrong that our people are dying right and left because they cannot afford healthcare. That's a liberal myth. The left often touts that our healthcare is more expensive than anywhere else in the world (which it is) and yet our health outcomes are not any different than countries with nationalized healthcare. That right there destroys your misconception that our people are dying right and left because they can't afford health care (of course in any system, even Canada's, you can cherry pick horror stories). As I said, even before Obamacare, the poorer got free care and didn't even have to pay for it because they didn't pay for it and they didn't have to declare bankruptcy either. Providers just write the losses off as a business loss and get some money from the government to compensate and charge those that do pay more for their healthcare (a version of charging the richer more to pay for the poorer's healthcare). The poor got the care and they didn't have to pay for it. Obamacare hasn't changed that at all. Now the middle class can get screwed.

What you don't realize is that 80%-90% of Americans (even the working poor) get their health insurance through their employers and that sometimes a poorer person winds up having better health insurance than a richer person does. Another 10% are the out of work poor which I have already addressed, and the other 10% are the middle class who don't get health insurance their employer. This is the segment of society where some horror stories occur and make the news. I have pre-existing conditions and have talked with others the world over and they have a huge misconception of American healthcare and erroneously believe that only the rich get good care while the poor are left to die in the streets, as they hear only the liberal headlines in their news about the small segment of horror stories that are real. I also hear horror stories of people in countries with nationalized health care who die waiting for treatment but I realize that these are their small segment of horror stories. Of course the American liberal media doesn't report on them but I have heard them directly from the people in those other countries. One of those was with a girl in the UK who's brother died waiting for treatment.
 
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Good thing it failed.
What does it illustrate though?
1. R's a re a bigger tent party than the goose stepping Leftists.
....
R's are Not a Party.
They are now a coalition of 'original' 1980ers (incl Rich, corporatists, and Strong Defense/Anti-Russian)..
Then add in Social Conservatives: 1988/Robertson's failed-run Evangelical pack, etc,
More recently the Tea Party/Rejectionists who chased Boehner out, who will not compromise on anything. They are a Third Party.
And Now... Populist RINO Traitor Trumpov, who Tea Partiers thought was like them.

Feb 24, 2017
Obamacare: John Boehner Says Repeal and Replace Unlikley | Fortune.com

...
"In the 25 years that I served in the United States Congress, Republicans Never, Ever One time Agreed on what a Healthcare proposal should look like. Not once.”
As Boehner concluded, “Most of the Affordable Care Act, the framework, is going to stay there.”
 
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Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

It's still called Obamacare. But thanks for admitting that Obamacare is a disaster and getting worse and worse every year. I can understand why you want to run away and hide from it and claim that it belongs to someone else. It just proves that it should be repealed and replaced.

8 years. Nothin.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

This is going pretty much exactly how I expected it to. The Republicans aren't going to have enough support for a repeal, because they can't agree among themselves on what they want.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

No, are you forgetting the Congressional elections and how Obama said his policies were on the ballot?? Are you forgetting the ACA tax that forced people go buy insurance or pay the tax? How many of the 30+ million are in that category? How many of the 20+ million were eligible for existing Medicaid without ACA?? How many Americans are still uninsured with ACA, a number not a percentage? Tough questions that you and the left want to ignore.

What are the numbers?
Are you in favor of single payer?
Removing insurance company profits from the costs.
Set fees for Drs. visits to specific surgeries?
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Don't try to swing a big dick when the Democrat Gov.. and former Clinton aide has issues as well.
There is a reason why he isn't running for a 2nd term.

The reason he isn't running for a 2nd term in Virginia is because he's not allowed to, since Virginia has a ONE term limit for governor.

Another swing and a miss on your part telling me not to try and swing a big dick, when in fact I only deal in facts with elections.

If you'd have bothered to read up on Virginia elections in the link I provided, you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself .
 
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Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

What are the numbers?
Are you in favor of single payer?
Removing insurance company profits from the costs.
Set fees for Drs. visits to specific surgeries?

Single payer and removing insurance company profits from the costs of healthcare is fantasy land. Ain't never gonna happen because it would destroy the US economy to tell a large segment of it to go take a hike and dissolve them. It would be like telling the Automotive industry to go take a hike because we were outlawing cars and passing legislation that everyone has to ride a bike instead. Devastating. You can't tell the automotive industry that they aren't needed anymore and you can't tell health insurance companies that they aren't needed anymore either. It's just fantasy and not reality.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

What are the numbers? From what I have been told about half qualified for Medicaid without ACA but if you have a better number please advise
Are you in favor of single payer? Absolutely NOT
Removing insurance company profits from the costs. We live in a free enterprise, capitalism economy and country and profits are part of the cost, why are profits a bad word
Set fees for Drs. visits to specific surgeries? No, this country wasn't built on that principle

What are the numbers? From what I have been told about half qualified for Medicaid without ACA but if you have a better number please advise
Are you in favor of single payer? Absolutely NOT
Removing insurance company profits from the costs. We live in a free enterprise, capitalism economy and country and profits are part of the cost, why are profits a bad word
Set fees for Drs. visits to specific surgeries? NO, this country was built on free enterprise and capitalism

Unfortunately what the left wants to ignore are the hidden costs and taxes in other countries healthcare. I posted a link on another thread regarding the true cost of Canadian Healthcare funded by taxes on other items
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

What are the numbers? From what I have been told about half qualified for Medicaid without ACA but if you have a better number please advise
Are you in favor of single payer? Absolutely NOT
Removing insurance company profits from the costs. We live in a free enterprise, capitalism economy and country and profits are part of the cost, why are profits a bad word
Set fees for Drs. visits to specific surgeries? NO, this country was built on free enterprise and capitalism

Unfortunately what the left wants to ignore are the hidden costs and taxes in other countries healthcare. I posted a link on another thread regarding the true cost of Canadian Healthcare funded by taxes on other items

Can you post the link pls?
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

The reason he isn't running for a 2nd term term in Virginia is because he's not allowed to, since Virginia has a ONE term limit for governor.

Another swing and a miss on your part telling me not to try and swing a big dick, when in fact I only deal in facts with elections.

If you'd have bothered to read up on Virginia elections in the link I provided, you wouldn't have embarrassed yourself .

I am so happy for you that you believe in what is going on in Va and that it is successful. What you continue to prove is that you buy rhetoric and ignore actual results. If you like someone's personality you ignore what they have done. I personally don't like Trump's personality but couldn't care less if he gets the results. He inherited an economy of 1.6%, a U-6 of 9.4%, and a 20 trillion dollar debt up 9.4 trillion under Obama. Those are the numbers I will judge his performance against. Have you done the same thing in Va.?
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

I am not familiar with all of the facets of American healthcare so I'm not even going to attempt to factcheck that. Let me just say that your healthcare is waaaayyyyyy too complicated -- much more than it should be. You Americans need to decide whether you have no issues with your people dying right left and centre because they cannot afford healthcare or that you all believe that healthcare is a fundamental right of each individual.

Have you bothered to look at the true costs of Canadian healthcare not just the reported costs?

'Free' Health Care in Canada Costs More Than It's Worth | Nadeem Esmail
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Obamacare Isn't in a 'Death Spiral.' (Its Replacement Probably Won't ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/...replacement-probably-wont-be-either.html?_r=0
Mar 15, 2017 - But the new estimates from the Congressional Budget Office ... But those recent woes are not the same as a death spiral, a term used to ...

Obamacare 'death spiral' argument Rebutted by CBO report
...
Obamacare 'death spiral' argument rebutted by CBO report - Washington Times
6 days ago - CBO report rebuts Obamacare 'death spiral' argument ... Budget Office, in a little-noticed part of its report last week, said that is Not the case.
 
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Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump


Cannot open the Forbes link
The other is from Frasier
Cdn HC costs 11.735
US HC Costs with millions not covered. But yes our HC system needs some changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
2012 thru 2015
United States 8423 8617 9024 9451
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

The left often touts that our healthcare is more expensive than anywhere else in the world (which it is) and yet our health outcomes are not any different than countries with nationalized healthcare. That right there destroys your misconception that our people are dying right and left because they can't afford health care....
Tell you what. I'd buy that argument, if you in turn accept that we're spending twice as much as other OECD nations, with the same outcomes. That right there suggests we should change systems.

Actually, studies indicate that in 2009 around 45,000 people died as a result of a lack of health insurance. (Note, this is very complex, and life expectancy doesn't tell you about quality of life.) In a population of 300+ million, though, that's not going to make a huge dent in life expectancy statistics, especially as most of those are in older individuals (50+).


As I said, even before Obamacare, the poorer got free care and didn't even have to pay for it because they didn't pay for it and they didn't have to declare bankruptcy either.
Uh... No, that's not even remotely correct.

In 2009, nearly 50 million Americans didn't have health insurance. They weren't all getting good quality care regardless. Those of us who actually know poor people know that access to care was very limited, especially for those not in urban centers. The poor could get some care by going to emergency rooms -- but that doesn't work if you need chemotherapy, or have diabetes.

And yes, there is a clear link to bankruptcies. Medical bills are the leading cause in bankruptcies in the US:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148


Providers just write the losses off as a business loss and get some money from the government to compensate and charge those that do pay more for their healthcare....
Uh huh

The federal government requires that anyone who shows up at an emergency room must get care. They're partially compensated by the Disproportionate Share Hospital program. Guess what that falls under? Medicaid. It costs around $12 billion a year -- and that's only 1/3 of the cost. The hospitals soak up 2/3 of those costs. (There is some debate whether they pass on some of those costs to insurers and/or those who can pay.)


What you don't realize is that 80%-90% of Americans (even the working poor) get their health insurance through their employers....
BZZT not even close. In 2008-2011, it was less than 50% -- and falling.

widqeopd-uonhiy_gy_phg.gif


Another issue is that a reliance on employer-based care results in "job lock," where people don't want to change jobs, or quit and start a business, because they can't get health insurance.

It is true that most Americans want to get insurance from an employer. That doesn't prove that it's the best option. It's just what Americans are accustomed to.


that sometimes a poorer person winds up having better health insurance than a richer person does.
hahahaha


Of course the American liberal media doesn't report on them but I have heard them directly from the people in those other countries. One of those was with a girl in the UK who's brother died waiting for treatment.
Yaay, yet another conservative myth, backed up by an unsourced anecdote.

Guess what? Americans also have to wait for care. This is compounded by issues inherent in our system, such as a shortage of general physicians and an excess of specialists (as the latter earn more).

And again, you yourself stipulated that outcomes in those other nations are essentially the same as the US. So, which is it? If equivalent life expectancy proves that Americans aren't dying left and right because of a lack of health insurance, then it also proves that Canadians aren't dying left and right because of wait times.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Our healthcare is very complicated. I don't deny that. But, you are totally wrong that our people are dying right and left because they cannot afford healthcare. That's a liberal myth. The left often touts that our healthcare is more expensive than anywhere else in the world (which it is) and yet our health outcomes are not any different than countries with nationalized healthcare. That right there destroys your misconception that our people are dying right and left because they can't afford health care (of course in any system, even Canada's, you can cherry pick horror stories). As I said, even before Obamacare, the poorer got free care and didn't even have to pay for it because they didn't pay for it and they didn't have to declare bankruptcy either. Providers just write the losses off as a business loss and get some money from the government to compensate and charge those that do pay more for their healthcare (a version of charging the richer more to pay for the poorer's healthcare). The poor got the care and they didn't have to pay for it. Obamacare hasn't changed that at all. Now the middle class can get screwed.

What you don't realize is that 80%-90% of Americans (even the working poor) get their health insurance through their employers and that sometimes a poorer person winds up having better health insurance than a richer person does. Another 10% are the out of work poor which I have already addressed, and the other 10% are the middle class who don't get health insurance their employer. This is the segment of society where some horror stories occur and make the news. I have pre-existing conditions and have talked with others the world over and they have a huge misconception of American healthcare and erroneously believe that only the rich get good care while the poor are left to die in the streets, as they hear only the liberal headlines in their news about the small segment of horror stories that are real. I also hear horror stories of people in countries with nationalized health care who die waiting for treatment but I realize that these are their small segment of horror stories. Of course the American liberal media doesn't report on them but I have heard them directly from the people in those other countries. One of those was with a girl in the UK who's brother died waiting for treatment.

A couple of things.

1) I know that people (sometimes/mostly?) "get" their healthcare through their employers. But:

a) They also have to pay a deductible. Or they have to subsidize it, so you're omitting important facts.
b) Walmart and other low paying jobs seriously offer healthcare? Wow, I didn't know.

2) Your outcomes are mediocre or similar at best, and overall fall behind the countries that have "free" healthcare. Each and every time. Just wanted to clarify these points.

0011_health-outcomes-full.jpg
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Cannot open the Forbes link
The other is from Frasier
Cdn HC costs 11.735
US HC Costs with millions not covered. But yes our HC system needs some changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita
2012 thru 2015
United States 8423 8617 9024 9451

It needs some changes but not Federal Govt. interference and another federal bureaucracy. Stop buying what the left tells you and do some research finding out the hidden costs and why our healthcare is so different. Regulations play a major role as does our R&D requirements
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Tell you what. I'd buy that argument, if you in turn accept that we're spending twice as much as other OECD nations, with the same outcomes. That right there suggests we should change systems.

Actually, studies indicate that in 2009 around 45,000 people died as a result of a lack of health insurance. (Note, this is very complex, and life expectancy doesn't tell you about quality of life.) In a population of 300+ million, though, that's not going to make a huge dent in life expectancy statistics, especially as most of those are in older individuals (50+).



Uh... No, that's not even remotely correct.

In 2009, nearly 50 million Americans didn't have health insurance. They weren't all getting good quality care regardless. Those of us who actually know poor people know that access to care was very limited, especially for those not in urban centers. The poor could get some care by going to emergency rooms -- but that doesn't work if you need chemotherapy, or have diabetes.

And yes, there is a clear link to bankruptcies. Medical bills are the leading cause in bankruptcies in the US:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148



Uh huh

The federal government requires that anyone who shows up at an emergency room must get care. They're partially compensated by the Disproportionate Share Hospital program. Guess what that falls under? Medicaid. It costs around $12 billion a year -- and that's only 1/3 of the cost. The hospitals soak up 2/3 of those costs. (There is some debate whether they pass on some of those costs to insurers and/or those who can pay.)



BZZT not even close. In 2008-2011, it was less than 50% -- and falling.

widqeopd-uonhiy_gy_phg.gif


Another issue is that a reliance on employer-based care results in "job lock," where people don't want to change jobs, or quit and start a business, because they can't get health insurance.

It is true that most Americans want to get insurance from an employer. That doesn't prove that it's the best option. It's just what Americans are accustomed to.



hahahaha



Yaay, yet another conservative myth, backed up by an unsourced anecdote.

Guess what? Americans also have to wait for care. This is compounded by issues inherent in our system, such as a shortage of general physicians and an excess of specialists (as the latter earn more).

And again, you yourself stipulated that outcomes in those other nations are essentially the same as the US. So, which is it? If equivalent life expectancy proves that Americans aren't dying left and right because of a lack of health insurance, then it also proves that Canadians aren't dying left and right because of wait times.

You really continue to drink the leftwing Kool-Aid, would love to see a study showing 45000 dying BECAUSE they lack Health insurance when healthcare is available at clinics all over the country. Are you now going to provide individuals to monitor someone else's activities to assure that they go to the doctor when you believe they need to or how about making sure their diet and exercise conform to your requirements?

I posted a link to the cost of Canadian healthcare as well as how many people were eligible for Medicaid but FAILED to register. Is that something you are going to demand people do as well? Why is it that personal choice issues are only the ones you support or want? People have a choice in this country to choose healthcare, to register for Medicaid and if they don't choose wisely there are consequences, something you have yet to ever acknowledge
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

A couple of things.

1) I know that people (sometimes/mostly?) "get" their healthcare through their employers. But:

a) They also have to pay a deductible. Or they have to subsidize it, so you're omitting important facts.
b) Walmart and other low paying jobs seriously offer healthcare? Wow, I didn't know.

2) Your outcomes are mediocre or similar at best, and overall fall behind the countries that have "free" healthcare. Each and every time. Just wanted to clarify these points.

View attachment 67215626

Again, you are missing the hidden costs of healthcare in other countries. I posted the Canadian link and you will find the same thing elsewhere in that other taxes also fund healthcare so where are those taxes in your numbers?
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

Those that know they need their votes....but you are right you don't care about votes. Because like Trump and the most of the GOP, you have no clue about governing.


You are like too many others ; mired in partisanship. When you place a party identity ahead of a philosophy, you get what we got now.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

This isn't over. The conservative were successful in stopping a bill which was just playing a shell game with the ACA. Now maybe we will see some true free market oriented solutions which actually bring down the cost of premiums and deductibles.

[Laughs Until He Collapses into Sobbing]

[Drinks Heavily]


you don't approve of free market solutions to get health care insurance costs under control?
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

You know a lot about another DP poster being partisan who joined in JAN 2006 and has over 23,000 posts while you joined this month and currently have 21 posts, Tahuyaman .

Yeah, its like being in the non-athletic hosiery aisle.
 
Re: No Deal on Health Care Bill After Conservative Meeting With Trump

you don't approve of free market solutions to get health care insurance costs under control?
No - I think the odds of that happening are remote at best. Hopefully I'm wrong, but no one ever went broke betting on the ability of the GOP to shoot itself in the face.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
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